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Advice on a new secondary; It's like a poll!
Topic Started: May 15 2007, 02:59 PM (876 Views)
Ulti
High Tier
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So over the past few tournaments I've come to realize how relatively stale my game is, and how there's some walls that I'm finding a tad hard to get over. This is probably compounded by lack of any reliable secondary, which mostly consists of whoever I feel like playing at the time.

Anyway, so I'm up for suggestions. Let me just get a few things out of the way first:

1. I'm not switching mains even if the new character is better than Ganon.
2. Please don't put down Fox/Falco/any character that can DJC including Peach. I don't want to practice my tech skill, as I still need to master Ganon's largely simple techniques. No IC's either - they confuse me. Also I don;t care about flashiness/fun-ness. I'm at the point (I think) where winning is immensely fun >.>
3. I'm mostly looking for someone who does reasonably well against Sheik and C.Falc, and to a lesser extent against high tiers in general. This is the most important part I guess.
4. I might still choose someone else. I'm just looking for advice.

That's really it I guess. Thanks.

Oh, off the top of my head, I was thinking either Sheik, Marth, or Falcon.
I had fun with Falcon this Sat, but meh.
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Replies:
Kyle
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FluxWolf
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The biggest reason Marth pwns anyone is edgeguarding. :mellow:
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illboyzeus
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High Tier
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played correctly and gayly Doc has no bad match ups, just ones that are harder to be gay in. Seriously, pill spam on FD=rape. He has great edgeguarding and easy combos, his only negative is the fact that his recovery is bad. IMO Doc's pill rush is just below Falco's shl as the best projectile spam in the game. He just has a sick approach.


Falcon can combo Marth to hell though, and Marth's combos are largely DI dependent. It doesn't matter where Marth DI's after a stomp, he is taking a knee. Knees=quick death for Marth. Still, if at any point Falcon is off the stage he's dead, but the trick is to get him off the stage.

Gawd all these match up tips, we should have a match up thread.
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sparrow
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God Tier
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illboyzeus
May 16 2007, 06:41 PM
IMO Doc's pill rush is just below Falco's shl as the best projectile spam in the game.

I'd say Samus, Young Link, Link, Sheik, and Pikachu (and pichu if not for hurting himself) have better projectiles.
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Crafty
n00b
FluxWolf
May 17 2007, 12:24 AM
The biggest reason Marth pwns anyone is edgeguarding. :mellow:

Except Jigglypuff.
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Kyle
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FluxWolf
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I agree with you Sparrow, especially Samus'....
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Aaron
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Mid Tier
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docs recovery isnt bad <.<
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sparrow
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God Tier
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I hope you're joking.
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mastr0fmyd0main3
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Mid Tier
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It's better than Falco's, that's for sure. With the floatiness, the pill recovery, tornado, and cape and all...mot to mention the virtually impervious UpB
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illboyzeus
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High Tier
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James Sparrow
May 17 2007, 02:23 AM
illboyzeus
May 16 2007, 06:41 PM
IMO Doc's pill rush is just below Falco's shl as the best projectile spam in the game.

I'd say Samus, Young Link, Link, Sheik, and Pikachu (and pichu if not for hurting himself) have better projectiles.

I'm not attempting to totally dispute what you stated, but why are these projectiles better? Again, just asking to have a better grasp of the game.
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sparrow
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God Tier
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Sheik can needle cancel, Samus can missile cancel, link and young link's bombs can't be attacked through, pikachu and pichu's have less cooldown lag and are more versitile for different levels. Doc's pills have a lot of lag after using them, don't cancel lag when you hit the ground, and can be easily sex kicked through. When people try to spam pills at me I just nair through them, or when i'm edgegaurding a pill recoverer i just do a bair through the pill and hit the doc.
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wazgood
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n00b
im just wondering, which projectiles can be canceled by the ground?
the only ones that i know of are needles, missiles, and lasers
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sparrow
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God Tier
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I think thats it.
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BlueWolf25
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BTAM
[ * ]
Ice blocks cancel too, but the little aerial hop the IC's do when shooting them off makes it largely useless. :/
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eighteenspikes
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Mid Tier
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Doc's recovery isn't BAD per se, but when I saw him at 25th in the Recovery Tier List (2nd to Roy for last), it got me thinking... and I came to the conclusion that Doc's recovery really isn't better than anyone else's. He does have multiple recovery choices, but you have to be really smart to implement them well. And even with all of these choices, in any generic edgeguard situation, the only time Doc isn't vulnerable as copulate is when he recovers from below the stage with a sweetspot, and even still you have to get ready to tech. I'd go so far as to say if it wasn't for yodelstall, Doc/Mario would easily have the worst recovery in the game.

On the topic of Doc's approach/matchups, his approach (and in turn, his matchup) on Marth is urine poor. Pills get sliced up by all of 3 of his moves (shield breaker, dancing blade, and grab :rolleyes:), and Marth's ridiculous tilts make it really hard for Doc to get in range.
Most people play a metagame-style Marth (that's the only way to be good with Marth, anyways), so I find unorthodox approaches most effective. Late dash attacks, running up and spot dodging, and blindly spamming fair are fun ways to approach Marth that they usually don't expect. I was playing some Marths at FC that would dash dance right into fairs that I spaced behind them, as if dd'ing alone actually did anything. nubs
Unfortunately this means you have to be better than the Marth to read him, and what's even worse is that even if you CAN read a Marth, he still has to do a lot less work to kill you than you do to kill him. It's not my least favorite matchup but it's probably Doc's worst.
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sparrow
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God Tier
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When I watch M2K play marths, I feel like Falco's recovery is the worst in the game.
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