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Advice on a new secondary; It's like a poll!
Topic Started: May 15 2007, 02:59 PM (873 Views)
Ulti
High Tier
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So over the past few tournaments I've come to realize how relatively stale my game is, and how there's some walls that I'm finding a tad hard to get over. This is probably compounded by lack of any reliable secondary, which mostly consists of whoever I feel like playing at the time.

Anyway, so I'm up for suggestions. Let me just get a few things out of the way first:

1. I'm not switching mains even if the new character is better than Ganon.
2. Please don't put down Fox/Falco/any character that can DJC including Peach. I don't want to practice my tech skill, as I still need to master Ganon's largely simple techniques. No IC's either - they confuse me. Also I don;t care about flashiness/fun-ness. I'm at the point (I think) where winning is immensely fun >.>
3. I'm mostly looking for someone who does reasonably well against Sheik and C.Falc, and to a lesser extent against high tiers in general. This is the most important part I guess.
4. I might still choose someone else. I'm just looking for advice.

That's really it I guess. Thanks.

Oh, off the top of my head, I was thinking either Sheik, Marth, or Falcon.
I had fun with Falcon this Sat, but meh.
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mastr0fmyd0main3
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Mid Tier
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Doc. Does very well vs. captain falcon, and I seem to do fine vs. sheik with down throw-->fsmash or more down throws. Doc can chain throw fast fallers as well. He's sweet.
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!! BAKA !!
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Mid Tier
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i vote marth
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sparrow
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God Tier
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With all your restrictions you limit it to only a few choices... why don't you just play whoever you think works?
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Ulti
High Tier
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James Sparrow
May 15 2007, 11:35 PM
With all your restrictions you limit it to only a few choices... why don't you just play whoever you think works?

Yeah I kinda thought this would come up. Let me just kinda summarize the points this way.

1. Not a restriction.
2. I honestly don't want to play these characters for tech-skill reasons. Know that I think of it, this and #4 are really the only two that matter.
3. More of a low-tier anti-bias I guess. Althought I suppose I really don't care *edits out*.
4. If the secondary doesn't do well against Sheik/C.Falc (the others are less important), than my worst match-ups really don't change.
5. Not really a restriction either, just a talking point (warning?) I suppose.

This was mostly made to compare the characters I had thought of taking (Sheik/C.Falc/Marth) to those perhaps I had not thought of (MoMD suggested Doc).
In the end, I probably will choose whoever I think works - what I'm really asking I guess is do any of my initial "choices" fit, and am I overlooking anyone?
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Kyle
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FluxWolf
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Maaaarrrrfffff!

C Falcon would work for you too I guess since he is kind of like ganon with move sets, but what happened to you and marthmander?
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Ulti
High Tier
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^Mostly bad spacing/timing/predictability; plus when I got more interested in ganon I just kinda stopped using him. I do realize he has above average match-ups to make up for some of 'dorfs weaknesses however, so I might take him back up again.

Seeing Drephen/Jiano matches from COK III really make me want to play Marth/C.Falc now. >.>
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D.Disciple
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High Tier
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Go with Marth, he has a pretty good time dealing with Captain Falcon, and Shiek. He'll help you out on your spacing as well with both characters oddly enough.

But if you're having trouble against those three, than you're not really spacing yourself well enough with ganon, your mindgames must be stepped up and have you tried CGing them?
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Kyle
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FluxWolf
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I loved playing Marth ditto's with you, it was like routine for us to Marth ditto at every event lol. I think that you have more experience with him than other characters you might take up as a secondary... Plus if you feel like being gay, he is a good way to go. Hell I beat Zeus in a tourney match counter picking green greens and camping the whole time, really not that hard! I think you should consider him.
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Ulti
High Tier
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Just checking this one more time for the day:

D - I only have trouble vs two characters: CF/Sheik. I think the three you were thinking of those two+Marth who I listed as my first ideas for 2ndaries. I'm fairly sure CF can't be CG'd, and I can do it against Sheik for the most part. I do need to step up my mindgames though, I hope to be able to do some random smash over the summer to help that (practicing on comps definately isn't making me better).

Flux - Yeah I mostly feel like being cheap. =/

So far, it looks like Marth with maybe some Doc.
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D.Disciple
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High Tier
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Hey Ulti, try to see if you can come down this weekend so we can figure out a secondary for you and so that you can get some practice with it, asap.
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!! BAKA !!
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Mid Tier
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but im suppose to be the only doc :(!!!!
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D.Disciple
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High Tier
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You've played my Doc Baka, and MoMD pulls out Doc against Yoshii's Jigglypuff.
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BlueWolf25
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BTAM
[ * ]
D.Disciple
May 15 2007, 08:30 PM
Go with Marth, he has a pretty good time dealing with Captain Falcon, and Shiek.

Marth has a terrible time with Sheik. She has many moves (ftilt and bair in particular) that can compete with Marth's range, and if she gets a grab it's dthrow cg -> ftilts -> fair and edgeguard for the stock. That's not an exaggeration either. Marth spends the entire match in the center of the stage spamming fairs trying to prevent Sheik from sneaking in a grab or ftilt.

For an added visualization, GreenBunny began to pick up Fox before he left mostly as a counter to my Sheik, (he has yet to beat me in a tournament set in the two years that we've played) and both Aaron and KSSB have said that they would not play Marth against me in a tournament if they knew I was picking Sheik.

Marth vs. Falcon is an even matchup, mostly because Falcon loses a stock if he gets off the edge. Marth again has to play a defensive, fairing game, because Falcon can dart in and out of his range more quickly than any other character and Marth has no projectiles to restrict his movement. If Falcon manages to get a grab/combo starter off of Marth, it's likely to end in lots of damage/a stock. On the other hand, if Marth can get in a few hits or a short combo to get Falcon off the edge, Falcon is most likely going to lose a stock.

I would recommend Sheik or, like Master recommended, Doc. I'll type up my reasoning later because I really need to get back to studying for my accounting final.

I will say now though that neither would involve learning a lot of tech skill, and both characters involve lots of mindgames, which is what you've said you wanted to exercise.
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Kyle
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FluxWolf
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*Starts a slow clap*
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