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Stage Discussion.; Tournament stages in MN...
Topic Started: Apr 3 2007, 08:29 PM (1,072 Views)
Endless Nightmares
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I made this thread for many different reasons. For one thing I've noticed that the stages are a little different at every tournament in the US. Also, there has been a bit of controversy about how stages are done in the Midwest. You can read about it here. This thread is basically to discuss the way we do stages at MN tourneys...I would just like to hear what everyone thinks about it, and if they think anything should change. Basically just a general stage discussion.

One thing that I've noticed is how certain stages are sometimes legal and sometimes banned. Like Onett for example. It's legal at the biweeklies, but banned at OMGiggles. The St. Paul biweeklies are one of the only places where I've seen Onett as a legal stage. A few other borderline banned stages are MKII, Kongo Jungle (Waterfalls), Corneria, Jungle Japes, Great Bay (sometimes legal for teams), Venom, and Princess Peach's Castle. When I say borderline that means that it varies from place to place. Yes those last three are actually legal in some places, which really surprised me and made me check out how other tourney do their stages. It seems to be a regional thing.

One more thing for people to discuss...what do you think of the way stages are chosen? Do you like advanced slob picks (the way it's currently done)? Would you rather have it done a different way? A few stages simply have the neutral 6 stages on random and that's it. No other stages.


Personally, I am fine with advanced slob picks, but I don't agree with some of the legal/banned stages. I'm probably in the minority with this next statement, but I think Rainbow Cruise and Pokefloats should be banned. They're just horrible stages to play on, with all the constant movement and the fact that many parts of the stages (and lack of edges) make it impossible for a character to recover. Check out this Pokefloats vid at 1:50. What the hell is that? lol that's just not right. Also, I do enjoy playing on Great Bay, but admittedly I don't think it's fit for singles or doubles tourney play.
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Kyle
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Thats what makes Rainbow Cruise and Pokefloats such good counter picks!

Personally my favorite counter pick stage is MKII, just because the winner all depends on who can be the gayest.

Other than that I like Corneria for fox.
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mastr0fmyd0main3
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A much better argument can be made for the banning of levels like Brinstar and MKII. Nothing can deal you damage in Pokefloats or Cruise. In Brinstar, the acid deals a shit load of damage, randomly comes, and sets people up perfectly to be comboed by the other person. Plus it's incredibly small in terms of physical stage size. On MKII, the really short sides and the 2 pits make it huge bullshit. You might as well be able to play on the Yoshi level with pipes.

Personally I think MKII and Brinstar should be banned, while levels like venom and peach's castle should be available for counterpicks. I definitely don't agree with putting cruise and DK64 on random, though.


Down with brinstar.
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sparrow
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brinstar lava isn't random. and if you get hit by it when it's below the level, you would have died.

onnet is also rarely banned in wisconsin, and it wasn't banned at sg3 in illinois.
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Ulti
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I've seen a few other topics a smashboards recently about banned stages and how counter-picking should work (tournament discussion there's a fairly big one), anyway, the only time I think a stage should be banned is when it more or less forces the player to switch characters. We all know that Hyrule Temple was banned because fox can run around, shoot lasers all day, and win by running the clock. If you're not fox (or maybe falco), you aren't winning.

Yoshi (pipes) is the same way - fox waveshines for the win.
MKII - Anyone with high base knockback or means of carrying an opponen off the level twins here. Ganon, fox, DK, Marth, etc
Great Bay - I've heard Fox/Falco can stall by using f-b between the raft and the dock. Less likely to happen in teams due to more players on stage.

I don't think Brinstar should be banned. The only parts that bother me are a) uneven terrian b) lava rising and saving characters that should be ko'd and c) how the lava sometimes glitches a bit and hits you when you're clearly onstage. The first part affects everybody, the second can't really be planned, the third is only an annoyance. I actually like the smallness of this stage as it actually makes camping untenable like 95% of the time (except when lava is above the stage). The lava is also in a predictable pattern

Onett, not sure. In theory it's a fox haven. Plenty of infinite combo walls, nice terrain for run-and-gun, and the level just ends off-screen. There's also no possibility of fox getting edge-gaurded here (there is a very small chance that he will at MKII or pipes). In practice, I just remember the MLG (I think Dallas) match of Neo (roy) vs Ken (fox), game 5. Ken naturally counter-picked Onett + fox and based on the above should've had an easy time. He didn't, as Neo made it a close match. I don't know whether this means ban because Neo being amazing couldn't prevent a loss; not ban it because if they can get that close who's to say it can't be won; or just ban on the grounds that the cars that come by have different speeds and trajectories and the order in which they come has yet to be determined.

My 2 cents.
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Seanson
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I dont see a problem with having stages that ruin specific characters. Everyone has all 26 characters open to choose from. The fault lies with the player, picking a main that gets ruined by a particular stage. The game is about winning, not picking 1 character and getting really good with him. Expand horizons, take up new characters. They may not be as fun, but as these are tournament banned stages, there should be a 100% winning mindset anyways.
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Aaron
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lol if it were up to me I would make it so that the only stages were FD, Stadium, and Dreamland 64, those are where the epic matches are...
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mastr0fmyd0main3
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Aaron
Apr 5 2007, 04:52 AM
lol if it were up to me I would make it so that the only stages were FD, Stadium, and Dreamland 64, those are where the epic matches are...

In a perfect smash world...
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Jerk_Face
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They should bring back links level, It was my fave. Only problem was the tornado. Why was it in there in the first place anyways?
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Endless Nightmares
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To annoy us. :D

I actually liked the tornado. It made the matches much more interesting, and it was always fun avoiding the tornado but trying to knock my opponent into it. It was a hazard but it didn't completely **** up the battle like the ones in Smash. *coughcarsandlava*
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D.Disciple
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Aaron
Apr 4 2007, 10:52 PM
lol if it were up to me I would make it so that the only stages were FD, Stadium, and Dreamland 64, those are where the epic matches are...

Just like how the japanese players do, except that pokemon stadium isn't on there list. Just FD and Dreamland.
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sparrow
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lawl at 56k's new sig/ava... wtf
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Endless Nightmares
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ecks deee

*changes avatar...slightly* :P

It roxors and you know it.
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eighteenspikes
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HJ4 was originally going to be normal counterpicks, but the random was FD, Battlefield, and DL64, and you couldn't ban the randoms. The idea was that the first stage required you to have full faith in your main character. Out of those 3 stages there is 1 good, 1 bad, and 1 median stage for pretty much every character, so it was kinda like a rock-paper-scissors ordeal that made you think hard about who you send out first. But everyone complained so it got scrapped :huh:

Also MKII is a level that you can always win if you know how to be gayer than your opponent. EVERY character has the capacity to abuse one of their moves for easy kills on that level, so I wouldn't really call it intrinsically unfair.
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mastr0fmyd0main3
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I didn't say MKII was unfair, but it definitely requires less skill to win, even if it is a fair match.
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