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Warning removal
Topic Started: Apr 22 2005, 11:53 PM (910 Views)
Chiascuro
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Caffe Mocha
 
Its one sided because there is only on side to this and that’s the moderators side. Most if not all power rests entirely on the moderator.


may i remind you that the way the forum is run doesnt always have to be democracy where each member has a piece to say. i also want to point out that this forum was created by a group of people, these people are also the ones priviledged to be admins. point of fact, the whole forum system was indeed built one-sided. even in democracy, the say of the people will only get you so far. once the moderator has his/her say, it's either his way or the highway.

Caffe Mocha
 
People with warns wont know if mods/admins still remember their warns because there’s nothing to keep them informed on their current status so if mods forgot about a persons warn then he would most likely have to live with that warn.


simple, ask.
there's nothing wrong with PM'ing a moderator/admin.

Caffe Mocha
 
Perhaps I should rephrace that to better explain my point. People sometimes wont know why their warns aren’t lifted because informing the user is entirely up the moderator. And yes people would be delighted that their warn level was lowered but I am speaking here of those accounts with warns that aren’t lowered? A system would give them peace of mind knowing that everything is the way it should be.


if a member wants to know why his account was warned?
the same answer, ask.
if the member is really concerned about his account than he will do all he can to maintain it. evidently the people who still have their warnings are those who have not done effort in asking for its removal, therefore are the accounts who noticably have their accounts warned for a very long time.

Caffe Mocha
 
Correct me if I am wrong but are u trying to say that information with regards to my warn level is regarded as a moderators private information?


a system for public use is in the public eye. if a member must apply in this system then he/she shall have to post it in public. by PM'ing a moderator, he/she can still get his/her warning lowered without the infraction being known.

Caffe Mocha
 
Are you absolutely sure that mods/admins reply to every private message sent members as well as never leave them hanging? By left hanging i mean uninformed or clueless regarding their accounts warning status.


it all depends on who your asking.
i'll admit that we have several mods who are quite inactive these days. to correct this simply ask the right people.

the administrators anikka, ^-mon and kzyranni's_priest are always willing to help. the lead moderators Lady_Paige, Ms.Genel, and Inferno can easily be seen as very active moderators based on their post counts. even the simple topic moderators like demeter, or Miyabi*Ningyo may give assistance see'ing that they maintain the forum with the heaviest traffic.

Caffe Mocha
 
Yes I agree with however "tying as hard as they can not to be biased" isn’t really 100%. The system would remove even the possibility of bias since the application is laid out in the open and is subject to criticism by all.


as it is, the moderating team of Loki-Boards.tk is already believed to biased, which i do not understand how this is so.
the point itself was voided to begin with. biased is not a professional term, it does not exist in work ethics. biased is a term given out based on emotions and the way one feels. emotions are non-existant in jobs.

if you seem to think otherwise, to clarify, please do give an example of a biased action given out to a member in regards to warning reduction.

Caffe Mocha
 
Simple observation of one or five accounts is not too much work but simple observation of lets say 500 accounts in my opinion is. Having a systematic way would speed up the process as well as keep track of those individuals that are concerned with their account.


each forum has their share of active members, each forum has a moderator and by just moderating the forum (checking for double posts, spamming, dirty language) one can judge the behaviour of the member. how is that harder?

500 warned members divided by the forum they choose is easily observable. having the entire 500 warned members applying in one thread is not.

Caffe Mocha
 
Actually the system is intended for those who are concerned with the rules. Unfortunately people are human and the do make mistakes and when they do normally they would want to correct their mistakes. This system would give them direction on how to correct their mistake.


you do realize that the way to correct your mistake has always been there. what do you do when you want to be forgiven? ask for forgiveness. the key word being: ask.

now asking heavily relies on who you ask.a. now if a moderator is not keen on dealing with you. ask another moderator. in case the moderator has not seen you redeemable of warning reduction, maybe this is because of lack of knowledge towards your behaviour. if this is the case, then ask another moderator, one who you know has seen you be on your best behaviour.

i see it this way, by making a system it puts more responsibility on the moderators to have you warnings reduced when it should lie on the member. a system makes the moderator seek out the member, review his past replies, observe the members future actions and from there make a verdict if the member is redeemable or not. without it, the member has to be the one to seek out a moderator who has seen that the member has been good and is willing to lower the members warning.

in the case of warning removal, a system complicates a already simple problem. if you remember your Algebra and Fractions well, you do know that if you simplify a answer it becomes wrong.

the system proposed was a application based system where the member who wants their warning reduced would apply, and than be observed. it still returns to it's simplest form, simple observation.
having a system is not the wrong approach neither is it the right one. the saying goes: if it's not broken, dont fix it. i've said it before, i'll say it again. the system is not needed. when i say need, i mean neccessity, supposedly a system would make it easier, more systematic, but by my expirience i have lowered warnings without a system therefore i believe that we do not need it.
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Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

Caffe Mocha
 
Its one sided because there is only on side to this and that’s the moderators side. Most if not all power rests entirely on the moderator.


may i remind you that the way the forum is run doesnt always have to be democracy where each member has a piece to say. i also want to point out that this forum was created by a group of people, these people are also the ones priviledged to be admins. point of fact, the whole forum system was indeed built one-sided. even in democracy, the say of the people will only get you so far. once the moderator has his/her say, it's either his way or the highway.

Caffe Mocha
 
People with warns wont know if mods/admins still remember their warns because there’s nothing to keep them informed on their current status so if mods forgot about a persons warn then he would most likely have to live with that warn.


simple, ask.
there's nothing wrong with PM'ing a moderator/admin.

Caffe Mocha
 
Perhaps I should rephrace that to better explain my point. People sometimes wont know why their warns aren’t lifted because informing the user is entirely up the moderator. And yes people would be delighted that their warn level was lowered but I am speaking here of those accounts with warns that aren’t lowered? A system would give them peace of mind knowing that everything is the way it should be.


if a member wants to know why his account was warned?
the same answer, ask.
if the member is really concerned about his account than he will do all he can to maintain it. evidently the people who still have their warnings are those who have not done effort in asking for its removal, therefore are the accounts who noticably have their accounts warned for a very long time.

Caffe Mocha
 
Correct me if I am wrong but are u trying to say that information with regards to my warn level is regarded as a moderators private information?


a system for public use is in the public eye. if a member must apply in this system then he/she shall have to post it in public. by PM'ing a moderator, he/she can still get his/her warning lowered without the infraction being known.

Caffe Mocha
 
Are you absolutely sure that mods/admins reply to every private message sent members as well as never leave them hanging? By left hanging i mean uninformed or clueless regarding their accounts warning status.


it all depends on who your asking.
i'll admit that we have several mods who are quite inactive these days. to correct this simply ask the right people.

the administrators anikka, ^-mon and kzyranni's_priest are always willing to help. the lead moderators Lady_Paige, Ms.Genel, and Inferno can easily be seen as very active moderators based on their post counts. even the simple topic moderators like demeter, or Miyabi*Ningyo may give assistance see'ing that they maintain the forum with the heaviest traffic.

Caffe Mocha
 
Yes I agree with however "tying as hard as they can not to be biased" isn’t really 100%. The system would remove even the possibility of bias since the application is laid out in the open and is subject to criticism by all.


as it is, the moderating team of Loki-Boards.tk is already believed to biased, which i do not understand how this is so.
the point itself was voided to begin with. biased is not a professional term, it does not exist in work ethics. biased is a term given out based on emotions and the way one feels. emotions are non-existant in jobs.

if you seem to think otherwise, to clarify, please do give an example of a biased action given out to a member in regards to warning reduction.

Caffe Mocha
 
Simple observation of one or five accounts is not too much work but simple observation of lets say 500 accounts in my opinion is. Having a systematic way would speed up the process as well as keep track of those individuals that are concerned with their account.


each forum has their share of active members, each forum has a moderator and by just moderating the forum (checking for double posts, spamming, dirty language) one can judge the behaviour of the member. how is that harder?

500 warned members divided by the forum they choose is easily observable. having the entire 500 warned members applying in one thread is not.

Caffe Mocha
 
Actually the system is intended for those who are concerned with the rules. Unfortunately people are human and the do make mistakes and when they do normally they would want to correct their mistakes. This system would give them direction on how to correct their mistake.


you do realize that the way to correct your mistake has always been there. what do you do when you want to be forgiven? ask for forgiveness. the key word being: ask.

now asking heavily relies on who you ask.a. now if a moderator is not keen on dealing with you. ask another moderator. in case the moderator has not seen you redeemable of warning reduction, maybe this is because of lack of knowledge towards your behaviour. if this is the case, then ask another moderator, one who you know has seen you be on your best behaviour.

i see it this way, by making a system it puts more responsibility on the moderators to have you warnings reduced when it should lie on the member. a system makes the moderator seek out the member, review his past replies, observe the members future actions and from there make a verdict if the member is redeemable or not. without it, the member has to be the one to seek out a moderator who has seen that the member has been good and is willing to lower the members warning.

in the case of warning removal, a system complicates a already simple problem. if you remember your Algebra and Fractions well, you do know that if you simplify a answer it becomes wrong.

the system proposed was a application based system where the member who wants their warning reduced would apply, and than be observed. it still returns to it's simplest form, simple observation.
having a system is not the wrong approach neither is it the right one. the saying goes: if it's not broken, dont fix it. i've said it before, i'll say it again. the system is not needed. when i say need, i mean neccessity, supposedly a system would make it easier, more systematic, but by my expirience i have lowered warnings without a system therefore i believe that we do not need it.



Minamoto
Apr 24 2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:
 
- Its one sided


one of the qualities of members chosen to be moderators is making good decisions.
if a moderator decides to lower a warning, it is often times what is proper and should be done.


Quote:
 
Its one sided because there is only on side to this and that’s the moderators side. Most if not all power rests entirely on the moderator.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

may i remind you that the way the forum is run doesnt always have to be democracy where each member has a piece to say. i also want to point out that this forum was created by a group of people, these people are also the ones priviledged to be admins. point of fact, the whole forum system was indeed built one-sided. even in democracy, the say of the people will only get you so far. once the moderator has his/her say, it's either his way or the highway.


Left me see if I understood you correctly what your saying is that it is one sided? And I never said Loki boards should be ran like a government.

Quote:
 
even in democracy, the say of the people will only get you so far


Quote:
 
once the moderator has his/her say, it's either his way or the highway.


sori sori haf2 study il continue my post later. /ho

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Quote:
 
Left me see if I understood you correctly what your saying is that it is one sided? And I never said Loki boards should be ran like a government.


what's one sided is the way admins are chosen. do you have a say on the primary admin is, the very first member? no.
a forum run like a goverment is a metaphor.
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Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 02:27 AM
Quote:
 
Left me see if I understood you correctly what your saying is that it is one sided? And I never said Loki boards should be ran like a government.


what's one sided is the way admins are chosen. do you have a say on the primary admin is, the very first member? no.
a forum run like a goverment is a metaphor.

what's one sided is the way admins are chosen. do you have a say on the primary admin is, the very first member? no.
a forum run like a goverment is a metaphor.

My concern was never on how the admin are seleted but on "Warning Removal". And ofcourse no one has a say on who becomes the primary admin except that person. Anyways what was your point of using a democratic government as a metaphor?




Minamoto
Apr 24 2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:
 
- People with warns wont know if mods/admins still rember their warns


administrators have a warn log.
and every warn issued is logged within, including reasons why the warn was given.


Caffe Mocha
 
People with warns wont know if mods/admins still remember their warns because there’s nothing to keep them informed on their current status so if mods forgot about a persons warn then he would most likely have to live with that warn.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

simple, ask.
there's nothing wrong with PM'ing a moderator/admin.


I never said there’s nothing wrong with PM’ing a moderator/admin and I have tried as well that unfortunately that doesn’t work very well. With the implementation of the current system it would keep them informed with their current status as well as open their status to criticism by all.

Minamoto
Apr 24 2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:
 
- People wont know why their warns aren’t lifted


moderators can choose to PM members when ever their warning bar recieves a change. therefore it is up to the moderator if he wants to inform the person recieving change. if the mod chooses not to inform that person, than it is up to the member to find out.
and even so, getting your warn reduced is nothing to worry about so why would you even want to know why it was lowered? you should be delighted that it was lowered.


Caffe Mocha
 
Perhaps I should rephrase that to better explain my point. People sometimes wont know why their warns aren’t lifted because informing the user is entirely up the moderator. And yes people would be delighted that their warn level was lowered but I am speaking here of those accounts with warns that aren’t lowered? A system would give them peace of mind knowing that everything is the way it should be.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

if a member wants to know why his account was warned?
the same answer, ask.
if the member is really concerned about his account than he will do all he can to maintain it. evidently the people who still have their warnings are those who have not done effort in asking for its removal, therefore are the accounts who noticably have their accounts warned for a very long time.


What I said was with the current system
Caffe Mocha
 
People wont know why their warns aren’t lifted

Having a system would solve this problem

Minamoto
Apr 24 2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:
 
- As a result of the following some will pm mods asking questions regarding their warns


last time i checked privacy was an obligation.


Caffe Mocha
 
Correct me if I am wrong but are u trying to say that information with regards to my warn level is regarded as a moderators private information?


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

a system for public use is in the public eye. if a member must apply in this system then he/she shall have to post it in public. by PM'ing a moderator, he/she can still get his/her warning lowered without the infraction being known.


So you agree with my original point that this will result to
Caffe Mocha
 
- As a result of the following some will pm mods asking questions regarding their warns



Minamoto
Apr 24 2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:
 
- Mods/Admins may simply ignore private messages of members or leaving them hanging with the typical "we're really busy right now but rest assured that will do something bout it." message...


may, but rest assured that we do not.


Caffe Mocha
 
Are you absolutely sure that mods/admins reply to every private message sent members as well as never leave them hanging? By left hanging i mean uninformed or clueless regarding their accounts warning status.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

it all depends on who your asking.
i'll admit that we have several mods who are quite inactive these days. to correct this simply ask the right people.

the administrators anikka, ^-mon and kzyranni's_priest are always willing to help. the lead moderators Lady_Paige, Ms.Genel, and Inferno can easily be seen as very active moderators based on their post counts. even the simple topic moderators like demeter, or Miyabi*Ningyo may give assistance see'ing that they maintain the forum with the heaviest traffic.


So your saying that if we pm the people you have just identified this cannot possibly happen?
Quote:
 
- Mods/Admins may simply ignore private messages of members or leaving them hanging with the typical "we're really busy right now but rest assured that will do something bout it." message...


Minamoto
Apr 24 2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:
 
- May cause bias behavior


biased in what way? the moderator not informing the warned member because of biasedness, and vice versa.
trust me, the moderators/admins are trying as hard as they can not to be biased in doing their job. and a job is a job, so people should not be immature and take things personally.


Caffe Mocha
 
Yes I agree with however "tying as hard as they can not to be biased" isn’t really 100%. The system would remove even the possibility of bias since the application is laid out in the open and is subject to criticism by all.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

as it is, the moderating team of Loki-Boards.tk is already believed to biased, which i do not understand how this is so.
the point itself was voided to begin with. biased is not a professional term, it does not exist in work ethics. biased is a term given out based on emotions and the way one feels. emotions are non-existant in jobs.

if you seem to think otherwise, to clarify, please do give an example of a biased action given out to a member in regards to warning reduction.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

biased is a term given out based on emotions and the way one feels. emotions are non-existant in jobs.

Are you sure about that? And are you sure that emotion will not and never has affected moderators in doing their jobs?

Minamoto
Apr 24 2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:
 
- Gives too much work to mod/admins


simple observation is too much work than working through an application?


Caffe Mocha
 
Simple observation of one or five accounts is not too much work but simple observation of lets say 500 accounts in my opinion is. Having a systematic way would speed up the process as well as keep track of those individuals that are concerned with their account.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

each forum has their share of active members, each forum has a moderator and by just moderating the forum (checking for double posts, spamming, dirty language) one can judge the behaviour of the member. how is that harder?

500 warned members divided by the forum they choose is easily observable. having the entire 500 warned members applying in one thread is not.


So the admin/mod team is able to easily monitor all warns so far? And that no warn has been forgotten?

Caffe Mocha
 
Actually the system is intended for those who are concerned with the rules. Unfortunately people are human and the do make mistakes and when they do normally they would want to correct their mistakes. This system would give them direction on how to correct their mistake.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

you do realize that the way to correct your mistake has always been there. what do you do when you want to be forgiven? ask for forgiveness. the key word being: ask.


So if we say sorry for double posting then the moderators would remove our double posting warns after a few hours? Days? Weeks? Months?

Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

now asking heavily relies on who you ask.a. now if a moderator is not keen on dealing with you. ask another moderator. in case the moderator has not seen you redeemable of warning reduction, maybe this is because of lack of knowledge towards your behaviour. if this is the case, then ask another moderator, one who you know has seen you be on your best behaviour.


So what your saying is we continue to ask all moderators till we find one that likes us?

Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

a system makes the moderator seek out the member, review his past replies, observe the members future actions and from there make a verdict if the member is redeemable or not


EXACTLY! That is what this thread is all about.

anikka
Apr 22 2005, 11:53 PM

this is where we would welcome ur suggestions. post them here so we can better formulate a systematic warn increase/decrease policy.



Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

in the case of warning removal, a system complicates a already simple problem.


I would have to disagree. It would give clarity to certain issues therefore ensuring the integrity of the forum.


Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

if you remember your Algebra and Fractions well, you do know that if you simplify a answer it becomes wrong.

Your point is?

Minamoto
Apr 25 2005, 08:05 PM

the system proposed was a application based system where the member who wants their warning reduced would apply, and than be observed. it still returns to it's simplest form, simple observation.
having a system is not the wrong approach neither is it the right one. the saying goes: if it's not broken, dont fix it. i've said it before, i'll say it again. the system is not needed. when i say need, i mean neccessity, supposedly a system would make it easier, more systematic, but by my expirience i have lowered warnings without a system therefore i believe that we do not need it.


I can choose to walk from my house to school but I find that using a car is more convenient. People will always come up with better and efficient alternatives to accomplishing tasks; it’s up to individuals whether or not they want to embrace those methods.

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just to answer a few points, pra kseng paikot-ikot lng yang discussion nyo e.

Caffe Mocha
 

People with warns wont know if mods/admins still remember their warns because there’s nothing to keep them informed on their current status so if mods forgot about a persons warn then he would most likely have to live with that warn

check ur warnbar. note the mod/admin who issued the warn. when u PM him/her, he/she should be able to point out y u got that warn, if it wasn't already indicated in ur warn log. if u got a warn with no reason as to y it was issued, PM another mod/admin bcoz we do not give warns without reason and indication with regards to the offense.

and to point something out. there is no prescribed period for a warning. a mod can opt to remove ur warn if he/she feels u merit a warning decrease; or let it stay. it is all left to the mod's/admin's discretion.

Caffe Mocha
 
I never said there’s nothing wrong with PM’ing a moderator/admin and I have tried as well that unfortunately that doesn’t work very well.

how? i imagine we're all civilized people here with reasonable intelligence (well at least majority) and everything can be discussed sensibly. how has it not worked for u? :huh:

Caffe Mocha
 
With the implementation of the current system it would keep them informed with their current status as well as open their status to criticism by all.

not everyone may want their status open to criticism by all. :shameonyou:

Caffe Mocha
 
People wont know why their warns aren’t lifted.

we're not obligated to inform them if the warn will be decreased or not. :peace:

Caffe Mocha
 
As a result of the following some will pm mods asking questions regarding their warns

please refer to the first quoted statement.

Caffe Mocha
 
Are you absolutely sure that mods/admins reply to every private message sent members as well as never leave them hanging?

well, i do. ;)

Caffe Mocha
 
By left hanging i mean uninformed or clueless regarding their accounts warning status.

all u have to do is look at ur warnbar to know ur account status. u can PM a mod/admin if u want to confirm what reflects on ur warn logs.

Caffe Mocha
 
So what your saying is we continue to ask all moderators till we find one that likes us?

like u or not, a mod/admin should deal with u. or at the very least, reply to ur PMs. may nandedma na ba sau na mod/admin when u PM them asking about ur acct status? if so, PM me or any other admin and we'll see to it that appropriate action is taken. :eyebrow:

Caffe Mocha
 
So your saying that if we pm the people you have just identified this cannot possibly happen?

PM the people she mentioned doesn't mean that ur warn would be decreased; it would mean that any questions regarding ur account can be answered. ;)

Caffe Mocha
 
Are you sure about that? And are you sure that emotion will not and never has affected moderators in doing their jobs?

i for one, can't say that i am not affected by job-related stuff. BUT, i have nver used my authority to penalize ANYONE without DUE REASON. this is not being defensive; this is just stating fact. try having somene call u a bitch for simply doing ur job, won't that trigger negative emotions in u? ;)

Caffe Mocha
 
So the admin/mod team is able to easily monitor all warns so far? And that no warn has been forgotten?

checking out a member's warn logs is just a mouse-click away. if u really REALLY want to have someone dig into ur account, ask an admin. all actions made by a mod/admin r logged, and can be easily traceable. so everyone can be monitored and no warn will ever be forgotten. /ok

since mon has undertaken a system for this, i guess we just have to wait and see. e2 nlng, ang bottomline. para wla kau warning, just follow the friggin rules. /gawi
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anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM
Too be continued

Caffe Mocha
 
Are you sure about that? And are you sure that emotion will not and never has affected moderators in doing their jobs?

i for one, can't say that i am not affected by job-related stuff. BUT, i have nver used my authority to penalize ANYONE without DUE REASON. this is not being defensive; this is just stating fact. try having somene call u a bitch for simply doing ur job, won't that trigger negative emotions in u? ;)

Caffe Mocha
 
So the admin/mod team is able to easily monitor all warns so far? And that no warn has been forgotten?

checking out a member's warn logs is just a mouse-click away. if u really REALLY want to have someone dig into ur account, ask an admin. all actions made by a mod/admin r logged, and can be easily traceable. so everyone can be monitored and no warn will ever be forgotten. /ok

since mon has undertaken a system for this, i guess we just have to wait and see. e2 nlng, ang bottomline. para wla kau warning, just follow the friggin rules. /gawi

Caffe Mocha
 

People with warns wont know if mods/admins still remember their warns because there’s nothing to keep them informed on their current status so if mods forgot about a persons warn then he would most likely have to live with that warn


anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

check ur warnbar. note the mod/admin who issued the warn. when u PM him/her, he/she should be able to point out y u got that warn, if it wasn't already indicated in ur warn log. if u got a warn with no reason as to y it was issued, PM another mod/admin bcoz we do not give warns without reason and indication with regards to the offense.

and to point something out. there is no prescribed period for a warning. a mod can opt to remove ur warn if he/she feels u merit a warning decrease; or let it stay. it is all left to the mod's/admin's discretion.


Message A
I tried that before… I think it was after the first month of my warn. I messaged the mod that gave me the warn several times and it was probably after 8 messages that I got a message saying “About your warning...please bear with us...we're really busy right now but rest assured that will do something bout it.” Sadly when my warn was nearing three months it was only when Mon started the thread that my warn was removed. That’s why I concluded that point

Caffe Mocha
 

- People with warns wont know if mods/admins still rember their warns



Caffe Mocha
 
I never said there’s nothing wrong with PM’ing a moderator/admin and I have tried as well that unfortunately that doesn’t work very well.


anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

how? i imagine we're all civilized people here with reasonable intelligence (well at least majority) and everything can be discussed sensibly. how has it not worked for u?  :huh:


Read Message A

Caffe Mocha
 
With the implementation of the current system it would keep them informed with their current status as well as open their status to criticism by all.

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

not everyone may want their status open to criticism by all.  :shameonyou:

Then he/she may choose to carry out the procedure that is suggested by the system privately

Caffe Mocha
 
People wont know why their warns aren’t lifted.

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

we're not obligated to inform them if the warn will be decreased or not.  :peace:


Exactly! So you agree with my point.

Caffe Mocha
 
As a result of the following some will pm mods asking questions regarding their warns

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

please refer to the first quoted statement.


Exactly! So you agree with my point.

Caffe Mocha
 
Are you absolutely sure that mods/admins reply to every private message sent members as well as never leave them hanging?

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

well, i do.  ;)


Unfortunately not all mod are as dedicated as you.

Caffe Mocha
 
By left hanging i mean uninformed or clueless regarding their accounts warning status.

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

all u have to do is look at ur warnbar to know ur account status. u can PM a mod/admin if u want to confirm what reflects on ur warn logs.


By warning status I mean what the admins/mods have to say with regards to the warn will it be removed when it will be removed why it shouldn’t be removed all of which are not required too be done by mod/admins therefore it results to people remaining uninformed regarding the accounts warning status.

Caffe Mocha
 
So what your saying is we continue to ask all moderators till we find one that likes us?

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

like u or not, a mod/admin should deal with u. or at the very least, reply to ur PMs. may nandedma na ba sau na mod/admin when u PM them asking about ur acct status? if so, PM me or any other admin and we'll see to it that appropriate action is taken.  :eyebrow:

Il hold you to that someday.

Caffe Mocha
 
So your saying that if we pm the people you have just identified this cannot possibly happen?

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

PM the people she mentioned doesn't mean that ur warn would be decreased; it would mean that any questions regarding ur account can be answered.  ;)

Actually It was one of those people that I messaged nearly even reached 8 or 10 times I wasn’t keep track. Till I got a reply although I don’t blame her I expect mods/admin to be busy with several other things that’s why I see the need for a system.

Caffe Mocha
 
Are you sure about that? And are you sure that emotion will not and never has affected moderators in doing their jobs?

anikka
Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

i for one, can't say that i am not affected by job-related stuff. BUT, i have nver used my authority to penalize ANYONE without DUE REASON. this is not being defensive; this is just stating fact. try having somene call u a bitch for simply doing ur job, won't that trigger negative emotions in u?  ;)

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@Caffe Mocha

i cannot keep reiiterating what i said, when all you do is ask questions for more clarification. i believe some of the points i've given dont need clarification any longer due to some of those points i stated have two people arguing for it already or have already been cleared out.

i'll try to make this as simple as possible.

Caffe Mocha
 
I can choose to walk from my house to school but I find that using a car is more convenient. People will always come up with better and efficient alternatives to accomplishing tasks; it’s up to individuals whether or not they want to embrace those methods.


if the school was two houses from your house, would you still take a car?
the task of lowering warnings is already simple hence,

Minamoto
 
if you remember your Algebra and Fractions well, you do know that if you simplify a answer it becomes wrong.


the answer is to observe.
why make a system when it leads back to observation? when it can already be done without the system is, metaphorically speaking, simplifying the answer.

Quote:
 
My concern was never on how the admin are seleted but on "Warning Removal". And ofcourse no one has a say on who becomes the primary admin except that person.


Actually your concern is Warning Removal is One Sided because the moderator has all the say in lowering warnings, therefore you do not want it one sided. fact is, it will be one sided like it or not because from the roots of the moderator team you will see that the way admins are chosen is one sided, it's the admins who choose the moderators, and it's the moderators who choose when to lower warnings or not.

Caffe Mocha
 
Anyways what was your point of using a democratic government as a metaphor?


forums != democracy.
your obliged to say what you want, it will be taken into consideration, but it will not be the only factor in the decision.
your obliged to ask moderators for a warning reduction, a moderator will take follow up on it, but ultimately he decide if he lowers it or not.

Caffe Mocha
 
I tried that before… I think it was after the first month of my warn. I messaged the mod that gave me the warn several times and it was probably after 8 messages that I got a message saying “About your warning...please bear with us...we're really busy right now but rest assured that will do something bout it.” Sadly when my warn was nearing three months it was only when Mon started the thread that my warn was removed. That’s why I concluded that point


the simple solution.

Minamoto
 
now if a moderator is not keen on dealing with you. ask another moderator. in case the moderator has not seen you redeemable of warning reduction, maybe this is because of lack of knowledge towards your behaviour. if this is the case, then ask another moderator, one who you know has seen you be on your best behaviour.


this seem like too much trouble?

Caffe Mocha
 
So what your saying is we continue to ask all moderators till we find one that likes us?


was my post not clear enough?
if the moderator you PM'ed is busy, ask another. if the moderator doesnt think you deserve to have your warning lowered, ask another. whereas it's better to ask mods who are familiar with you.
don't twist my words, i dont see the word "like" in my post.

Caffe Mocha
 
So your saying that if we pm the people you have just identified this cannot possibly happen?


what anikka said and also
yes, if you PM each and everyone of them, not just 1 out of the given. you will surely recieve at the very least a reply, this i gurantee.

Minamoto
 
a system makes the moderator seek out the member, review his past replies, observe the members future actions and from there make a verdict if the member is redeemable or not


Caffe Mocha
 
EXACTLY! That is what this thread is all about.


dont forget this part:

Minamoto
 
without [the system], the member has to be the one to seek out a moderator who has seen that the member has been good and is willing to lower the members warning.


Quote:
 
By warning status I mean what the admins/mods have to say with regards to the warn will it be removed when it will be removed why it shouldn’t be removed all of which are not required too be done by mod/admins therefore it results to people remaining uninformed regarding the accounts warning status.


it's a matter of responsibility; who's asking who.
a system has the mods asking (note the keyword: ask) the members if they want their warnings lowered, but that doesnt mean you cant have your warnings lowered without a system.

i hope you got that last piece clearly, cause that's all i've been trying to say.
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Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

@Caffe Mocha

i cannot keep reiiterating what i said, when all you do is ask questions for more clarification. i believe some of the points i've given dont need clarification any longer due to some of those points i stated have two people arguing for it already or have already been cleared out.


I believe that clarifications to certain statements you made was necessary in order to determine if they were really pertinent to our little discussion.

Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

i'll try to make this as simple as possible.

So will I :)

Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Caffe Mocha
 
I can choose to walk from my house to school but I find that using a car is more convenient. People will always come up with better and efficient alternatives to accomplishing tasks; it’s up to individuals whether or not they want to embrace those methods.


if the school was two houses from your house, would you still take a car?
the task of lowering warnings is already simple hence,


The point of this thread is to
anikka
Apr 22 2005, 11:53 PM

this is where we would welcome ur suggestions. post them here so we can better formulate a systematic warn increase/decrease policy.

And if I dint feel like walking or have a gimik afterwards then yes I would have taken the car. But your missing my point that being there is a better way to accomplishing tasks; it’s up to individuals whether or not they want to embrace those methods.

Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Minamoto
 
if you remember your Algebra and Fractions well, you do know that if you simplify a answer it becomes wrong.


the answer is to observe.
why make a system when it leads back to observation? when it can already be done without the system is, metaphorically speaking, simplifying the answer.

Observation would depend on the moderator you were speaking with. If that moderator has other priorities then tendency would be is to postpone the observation. It would give us a more accurate and efficient solution.


Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:
 
My concern was never on how the admin are seleted but on "Warning Removal". And ofcourse no one has a say on who becomes the primary admin except that person.


Actually your concern is Warning Removal is One Sided because the moderator has all the say in lowering warnings, therefore you do not want it one sided. fact is, it will be one sided like it or not because from the roots of the moderator team you will see that the way admins are chosen is one sided, it's the admins who choose the moderators, and it's the moderators who choose when to lower warnings or not.


So you agree to my point that it is one sided /heh Which is one of this I have trying to prove

Caffe Mocha
Apr 24 2005, 01:58 PM

An application would give a systematic way of removing warns which is what this thread is all about. In my opinion simple observation and monitoring isn’t enough because..
- Its one sided
- People with warns wont know if mods/admins still rember their warns
- People wont know why their warns aren’t lifted
- As a result of the following some will pm mods asking questions regarding their warns
- Mods/Admins may simply ignore private messages of members or leaving them hanging with the typical "we're really busy right now but rest assured that will do something bout it." message...
- May cause bias behavior
- Gives too much work to mod/admins
*These are not accusations. Although IMHO these are possible scenarios.



Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Caffe Mocha
 
Anyways what was your point of using a democratic government as a metaphor?


forums != democracy.
your obliged to say what you want, it will be taken into consideration, but it will not be the only factor in the decision.
your obliged to ask moderators for a warning reduction, a moderator will take follow up on it, but ultimately he decide if he lowers it or not.


More facts to support my possible scenarios

Caffe Mocha
Apr 24 2005, 01:58 PM

An application would give a systematic way of removing warns which is what this thread is all about. In my opinion simple observation and monitoring isn’t enough because..
- Its one sided
- People with warns wont know if mods/admins still rember their warns
- People wont know why their warns aren’t lifted
- As a result of the following some will pm mods asking questions regarding their warns
- Mods/Admins may simply ignore private messages of members or leaving them hanging with the typical "we're really busy right now but rest assured that will do something bout it." message...
- May cause bias behavior
- Gives too much work to mod/admins
*These are not accusations. Although IMHO these are possible scenarios.


Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Caffe Mocha
 
I tried that before… I think it was after the first month of my warn. I messaged the mod that gave me the warn several times and it was probably after 8 messages that I got a message saying “About your warning...please bear with us...we're really busy right now but rest assured that will do something bout it.” Sadly when my warn was nearing three months it was only when Mon started the thread that my warn was removed. That’s why I concluded that point


the simple solution.

Yes, actually I also think that having a system is a simple solution that will improve the quality of our forum.

Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Minamoto
 
now if a moderator is not keen on dealing with you. ask another moderator. in case the moderator has not seen you redeemable of warning reduction, maybe this is because of lack of knowledge towards your behaviour. if this is the case, then ask another moderator, one who you know has seen you be on your best behaviour.


this seem like too much trouble?


Is the current test thread for warning removal too much trouble?

Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Caffe Mocha
 
So what your saying is we continue to ask all moderators till we find one that likes us?


was my post not clear enough?
if the moderator you PM'ed is busy, ask another. if the moderator doesnt think you deserve to have your warning lowered, ask another. whereas it's better to ask mods who are familiar with you.
don't twist my words, i dont see the word "like" in my post.


I never twisted your words. That’s simply how I perceived your statement. And upon furthur explanation by yourself I see that what you’re trying to say actually support one of my possible scenarios. All of which can be solved with a system.

Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

Caffe Mocha
 
So your saying that if we pm the people you have just identified this cannot possibly happen?


what anikka said and also
yes, if you PM each and everyone of them, not just 1 out of the given. you will surely recieve at the very least a reply, this i gurantee.


This also supports my scenarios.

Minamoto
Apr 26 2005, 03:24 PM

it's a matter of responsibility; who's asking who.
a system has the mods asking (note the keyword: ask) the members if they want their warnings lowered, but that doesnt mean you cant have your warnings lowered without a system.


Actually the initial asking would have to be done by the members (note the keyword: ask) that they want their warnings lowered. And yes we could keep the old of doing things and I won’t mind. I merely pointed out certain possible scenarios that could or has already occurred with our current system. And i pointed these scenarios out to support an implementation of a system that would improve the quality of our boards which is what the objective of this thread is.

anikka
Apr 22 2005, 11:53 PM

since a lot of u have been concerned lately about warnings and such, we welcome suggestions from u guys in implementing a "redemption system" for the decrease of warn levels.

i'm sorry but apologies wouldn't suffice. it's so easy to make potshots or simpleng spams, then say sorry when u get warned for it. so easy that when the warn gets decreased, most posters would do it again. there's nothing wrong if ur warn stays a week, 2 weeks or even a month after it was issued. u can still post freely (as long as u r not under mod preview or had ur posting rights suspended). please don't badger the mods/admins about ur warn decrease. it is in their judgment whether to remove it, and when.

this is where we would welcome ur suggestions. post them here so we can better formulate a systematic warn increase/decrease policy.

/thx

PS: spams/senseless/irrelevant posts not welcome here.


Sorry if this one is a bit confusing bara bara lan kc. Don’t worry I won’t hesitate to answer any questions. And yung reply ko k annika I will fix it up later just came home il just relax and read a bit.

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sorry if i was only able to reply now, i was unable to get hold of a computer for the days past.

anyways, there is no use convincing you. though you yourself may care about your warning status. see'ing the recent inactivity of the warning removal thread would seem to side with my PoV.

i requested several days ago before i had to do somethings, a list of all the warned members. now that i have returned 4 days later, my request was not granted. i was expecting a list of warned members that was only accessible by a admin, but they said they don't think there is. the next possible thing to do is make a list manually but due to staggering amount of members with warnings. this task is impossible. why am i saying this? because i said this earlier.

Minamoto
 
im all for the development of a system to reduce warns but there are several things you have to think about like. how many people actually care about their warns?


now so far the thread has been successful to reduce but 2 warned members from the many more warned members out there.

i also said this.

Minamoto
 
having a system is not the wrong approach neither is it the right one. the saying goes: if it's not broken, dont fix it. i've said it before, i'll say it again. the system is not needed. when i say need, i mean neccessity, supposedly a system would make it easier, more systematic, but by my expirience i have lowered warnings without a system therefore i believe that we do not need it.


im not saying we shouldn't have a system. im saying that we can operate without it.
by the way you push your points and choose to ignore several of mine says that having a system is of extreme importance. but by the way things are looking, the system doesnt even exist to those who need it. well there's no use arguing, your PoV has already been put into action and like what anikka said, the thread has already been started, all that's left is to see it's progress. and although the system is in place, you wont see me waiting for people deserving of warning reductions to apply in that thread before i lower their warning. also it would be but my small request that you answer my two questions with a simple yes or no.

1.) was having a warning so bad that you needed to lose it?
2.) do you think there are many more people who would want to have their warnings lowered?
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There’s no need to convince me. I simply wanted to give my opinion and I did. My replies were simply to clarify certain misconceptions that you may have towards my opinion. And I am glad that they are implementing a system which I believe will improve the quality of this forum :)

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:grin: ang tagal kng nde nag POST d2, tpos pag Log-in ko ngayun, meron pa ring 20% na warn. dati nung me 20% warn ako, nde ako msyado nagpo post nun, mga 2 weeks ata un, natanggal ung warning ko. Ngayon, kelangan mo pa atang lumuha ng DUGO sa mga MODs pra mawala ung 20% warning mo. Ano na pong nangyari d2 sa boards??? /hmm
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May 25 2005, 10:31 AM
:grin: ang tagal kng nde nag POST d2, tpos pag Log-in ko ngayun, meron pa ring 20% na warn. dati nung me 20% warn ako, nde ako msyado nagpo post nun, mga 2 weeks ata un, natanggal ung warning ko. Ngayon, kelangan mo pa atang lumuha ng DUGO sa mga MODs pra mawala ung 20% warning mo. Ano na pong nangyari d2 sa boards??? /hmm

blitz..d nmn s kelangan mo png lumuha ng dugo..sbe nga ni nami..walang list ng lht ng mga members n may warn..mdjo mdme n dn kc kayo..mdme kc mod ngyn n d gnon k actve na..kaya d n nila naasikaso ung mga nlgyn nila ng warning..

sori kng hnggng ngyn may warn pa..we'll do somthing about it ;)
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