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Jack wants a road millage renewal or increase; More new taxes
Topic Started: Mar 12 2012, 12:14 PM (1,740 Views)
Justasking
Advanced Member
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The Council will discuss this on the 26th.
REQUEST TO APPROVE PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT AND BALLOT
LANGUAGE FOR THE RENEWAL OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA ROADS
MILLAGE: Department of Law, re: to continue the roads millage that was first
placed before the voters on August 6, 2002 to levy and collect an additional tax
not exceeding 0.89 of 1 mill annually for ten years commencing December 1,
2002 for another ten (10) year period, and to place this matter before the voters
on the same date as the State Primary Election to be held on August 7, 2012.

So, we will vote on this on the same day as the State Primaries.
We will vote for a renewal or not. No increase on the ballot.
Edited by Justasking, Mar 22 2012, 12:01 PM.
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injuneer
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In terms of real dollars the road millage generates roughly 4 million dollars annually and is combined with a portion of act 51 dollars to fund road projects through out the city.
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srj900
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Was there not an argument made that the average home's taxes went down $500, so an increase of $250 for fire and police left you still ahead $250 ? Then I think there was another $50 for the senior center. We are down to $200 ahead. So, although the Mayor may have short term memory loss, doesn't mean the rest of us do. Every trick in the book is used to extract more money from the citizens. How about cutting the hours at city hall? How much could be saved there?
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Justasking
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srj900
Mar 22 2012, 04:14 PM
Was there not an argument made that the average home's taxes went down $500, so an increase of $250 for fire and police left you still ahead $250 ? Then I think there was another $50 for the senior center. We are down to $200 ahead. So, although the Mayor may have short term memory loss, doesn't mean the rest of us do. Every trick in the book is used to extract more money from the citizens. How about cutting the hours at city hall? How much could be saved there?
Just to be clear. This will not raise your taxes. It will keep them the same. The same amount you pay now will CONTINUE to be collected. If we vote NO, then your taxes will drop.
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Otis B.
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I will be voting no then.
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DADDYOH10
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Otis B.
Mar 23 2012, 10:10 AM
I will be voting no then.
Amen!!! Where is our state rep., our State senator, our U.S. congressman, and where is our county commissioner????What are they doing that would help foot the bill for our roads? My tax relief (depressed property value) is almost gone now... and if the City Council and the School Board (Bond Issue) get what they are after, we will lose all that we "gained" (LOL) by virtue of bad politics with no oversight and no, no concern for us (the little people), as we will again led like sheep to the slaughter, some us fighting all the way.
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injuneer
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Daddyoh it sounds like you might not understand this millage but it is just for city owned roads. The city is responsible for paying the maintenance costs on their own roads. Our county commissioner or any of those other people arent going to do much to help us with city streets when they are trying to fund their own county or state roadways.
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Otis B.
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It's got nothing to do with how they are funded. I've just had it up to here with millages.
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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
Did someone say our taxes would go down? Golly gee Beav, I'm votiing NO!
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DADDYOH10
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injuneer
Mar 23 2012, 02:50 PM
Daddyoh it sounds like you might not understand this millage but it is just for city owned roads. The city is responsible for paying the maintenance costs on their own roads. Our county commissioner or any of those other people arent going to do much to help us with city streets when they are trying to fund their own county or state roadways.
What I do understand is that it is always us paying for it and Michigan has not been know for returning the best rates on the dollars we send to Washington. Otis has it right, for too long we've been paying and guess what Beav...our tills are running dry and perhaps we should ask those on wall street how their roads are looking these days?

And then the politicians, besides laying low til election time, doing little or nothing on our dime, want us to pay for their campaign and the excesses thereof!!??
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Justasking
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DADDYOH10
Mar 24 2012, 06:59 PM
injuneer
Mar 23 2012, 02:50 PM
Daddyoh it sounds like you might not understand this millage but it is just for city owned roads. The city is responsible for paying the maintenance costs on their own roads. Our county commissioner or any of those other people arent going to do much to help us with city streets when they are trying to fund their own county or state roadways.
What I do understand is that it is always us paying for it and Michigan has not been know for returning the best rates on the dollars we send to Washington. Otis has it right, for too long we've been paying and guess what Beav...our tills are running dry and perhaps we should ask those on wall street how their roads are looking these days?

And then the politicians, besides laying low til election time, doing little or nothing on our dime, want us to pay for their campaign and the excesses thereof!!??
Yes, it is "US" paying for it. Where else would the money come from? There is not a magical pot of cash someplace to fund city projects.....

They are asking US to pay to rebuild OUR roads. It really is as simple as that. There is not a sinister plot to sell the new roads to a developer. There is not a plan to pay 5x market value for the paving. There is not a plan to use Soylent Green in the process.
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Otis B.
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I never said it was a sinister plot. I just want lower taxes.
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srj900
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Where does all the tax on gas we buy in Livonia go? Some to Washington, some to Lansing. We don't get any back? So, to say we should then have to pay for our own roads, really? We already are. I think this is another way for the Mayor and his cronies to get their hands on our money. He said we had our taxes reduced by $500, so even if the bond for cops and firemen added $250 to our taxes, we were still ahead. Kind of fuzzy math, because what happens when property values increase and taxes increase?

This is one of the sleaziest city governments I have been witness to. And, I used to live in Warren !
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DADDYOH10
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srj900
Apr 8 2012, 10:42 AM
Where does all the tax on gas we buy in Livonia go? Some to Washington, some to Lansing. We don't get any back? So, to say we should then have to pay for our own roads, really? We already are. I think this is another way for the Mayor and his cronies to get their hands on our money. He said we had our taxes reduced by $500, so even if the bond for cops and firemen added $250 to our taxes, we were still ahead. Kind of fuzzy math, because what happens when property values increase and taxes increase?

This is one of the sleaziest city governments I have been witness to. And, I used to live in Warren !
Just a little more than sleazy if you ask me...by time the mayor, council, and Liepa get done with the sheep here in Livonia, we will be paying the same taxes (if we're not now), in the very near future and the loss in property value does me no good - a 30-40% loss is not reflected in my taxes.

And how about that Joan Gebhart (sp) ??? She makes a big deal out of giving the check FROM THE MILLAGE WE VOTED FOR to Lyle Trudell of Livonia P & R. This is our share from what the county gets and we are giving it to ourselves. She was in office when we voted, but primarily is just grandstanding for attention for the next election....how about some road money from the county??? Vote all the bums out next chance you get...I'll try something new, as I'm tired of this old movie we keep seeing in the political realms of state, local, county and regional affairs.

meanwhile....

Our legislature is trying real hard to make it harder than it already is to gather a referendum to change their policies, removing the democratic process in the end! Where is the FREEDOM in that? The precious freedom they are always flustering about and accusing others of trying to take it away? They got "blueberry pie" all over their faces, clothes, the floor and the walls!
Edited by DADDYOH10, Apr 8 2012, 01:58 PM.
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Mrs.M
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It sure sounds like somebodies are not too happy with a check and balance. And I venture to guess, somebodies are not too happy with Toy's vote, in support of a review of the budget. However, the council people are elected to represent the voters/residents, not the mayor. It's an interesting meeting to watch and listen

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20120412/NEWS10/204120535/Council-debates-its-role-reviewing-budget?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Livonia|s

Council debates its role in reviewing budget
Apr. 12, 2012 | Comments

Written by
Ken Abramczyk
Observer Staff Writer


Filed Under
News
Livonia

A resolution for an advanced budget review by a committee of the Livonia City Council was narrowly approved on a 4-3 vote April 4.

Supporters on the council say they want to review financial issues and costs facing the city next year and further down the road. Opponents say the council already reviews the budget once it is released and any examination of next year's budget conflicts with the city charter's separation of duties of mayor and council.

Mayor Jack Kirksey wasn't warm to the resolution, either, stating that the council was blurring the lines of separation of powers under the charter.

Councilman Tom Robinson, who chairs the council's Finance, Budget & Technology, moved to refer advanced budget reviews to his committee and was backed by Council President Laura Toy, and council members Joe Laura and Maureen Miller Brosnan. Vice President John Pastor and council members Jim McCann and Brandon Kritzman opposed it.

Tough budget issues ahead

During the discussion preceding the vote, Robinson said the city faces issues down the road, such as increased debt of the Plymouth Road Development Authority, picking up some of the costs of the proposed I-96 reconstruction, and loss in personal property tax revenue.

In outlining his opposition to the motion, McCann cited the City Charter and outlined the mayor's duties in proposing the budget, which Kirksey has not presented to the council yet for next year and won't until Sept. 15. “By taking up this budget, this council is in direct confrontation with the charter we've been sworn to uphold,” McCann said.

Kirksey said he was willing to respond to questions, but was not ready to meet with them and have department heads complete detailed reports. Kirksey said he would need to talk with Human Resources about schedules. “But if time doesn't allow it, we won't be attending meetings,” Kirksey said.

Joe Laura said department heads were salaried positions and he didn't anticipate that the committee would have a series of meetings on the budget. “I don't look at it as a confrontation,” Laura said. Laura did not believe the council was violating the charter with the budget discussion.

Robinson said he “simply wanted open communication” and more information.

Pastor: Council review already in place

Pastor responded that the budget process already allows for a council review. “We already have it in a nice timeline,” Pastor said. “I don't know if we need to do more than that. I'm OK with that process, so I'm voting against it.”

Brosnan supported the resolution because the mayor and council work as a partnership on the budget, she said. “Prebudget meetings have always been in committee in some way, shape or form,” Brosnan said. When officials aren't available to discuss their budgets, information is available in documents, Brosnan said.

Pastor said meetings already occur prior to its adoption. “Everything you have said, Tom, we do it,” Pastor said.

McCann said department heads and employees would be busier completing more reports for the council and argued that it would take away from their jobs. “What does it do for the department and its workers when we require more information?” McCann asked. “It changes what they work on and what the council thinks they should be working on.”

McCann again mentioned the charter. “No matter how noble it is, it's against the charter,” McCann said.

Robinson said the budget committee was the means by which the council was updated on the budget.

‘Check and balance'

Toy said the council is a check and balance to the mayor and department heads. “We do face some tough budget years,” Toy said. Toy added that she hoped that the council wasn't trying to micromanage, but added that some responsibilities, such as adopting user fees, are the council's. “We have a responsibility,” Toy said. “We are elected. The administrative body proposes; the legislative body disposes.”

Kirksey reminded the council that the charter outlines a “strong full-time mayor” form of government and that the resolution proposes a dual-track system.

“Department heads will be put before a committee and have eight people offering direction instead of one,” Kirksey said.

Kirksey said he will present a preliminary budget on Aug. 15 and a proposed budget on Sept. 15. “It is not the council's budget, according to the charter, until the council has adopted it,” Kirksey said.

“If you pass a resolution tonight, we will do our best to cooperate with you, though I think you are taking a serious step backward and blurring the lines of government. That does not usually work well unless you recognize the separation of powers.”

Kritzman offered a substitute resolution to send the resolution to committee for reconsideration, but that was rejected by a 4-3 vote' then Robinson's resolution was approved.

kabramcz@hometownlife.com | (313) 222-2591 | Twitter: @KenAbramcz

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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DADDYOH10
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I think this is a good thing. Checks and balances work two ways...it is not a one way street where I check you but you'd better not check me!

It is so difficult to trust much of anyone in this day and age ...lies, contortions, misspeaks, embellishments, underestimation, overestimation and on and on...
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Otis B.
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God forbid anyone usurp Kim-Jong Kirksey or his control over us Livonia peasants.

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DADDYOH10
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Otis B.
Apr 13 2012, 11:40 AM
God forbid anyone usurp Kim-Jong Kirksey or his control over us Livonia peasants.

But I really liked his "rocket" ( annexation)! It almost did as well as the N. Korean's. Makes you wonder!

Just because some one has a light...it is no reason to follow him (her). Having a light in the dark does not mean you know where you are going...(over a cliff??? maybe???)
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