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Jack wants a road millage renewal or increase; More new taxes
Topic Started: Mar 12 2012, 12:14 PM (1,741 Views)
Otis B.
Veteran
You know the drill -- time to dig deep into your pockets again because Jack's already cut the city budget to the bone.

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http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20120311/NEWS10/203110457/Mayor-Expect-road-millage-ballot-year?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Livonia|p

Livonia residents can expect to see a renewal, or an increase, of the road millage on the ballot, possibly as early as August.

Mayor Jack Kirksey told the audience at his State of the City address Thursday that the 10-year, 0.89-mill levy expires this year. Kirksey also summarized the city's economic picture over the past few years and what he expected in 2013 and beyond.

“Citizens will need to consider a millage renewal to authorize a continuation of the road funding,” Kirksey told the audience consisting of Livonia Chamber of Commerce members, elected officials and other residents.

Kirksey said a study session with the Livonia City Council is scheduled for March 26 to discuss the millage; then a Town Hall meeting will be scheduled with residents.

“If there are any changes to it (the road millage) at all, it stops being a renewal,” Kirksey said. “We will look at continuing the amount, the length and all other considerations of it.”

The millage has helped fund local road repairs to bring 70 percent of them to good or better condition, Kirksey said. Livonia can also use millage funds as a local match to bring more road dollars to the city.

Good news, bad news

Once again, Kirksey cited the economic downturn and declining property values hitting Livonia hard.


•Residential values have fallen 38 percent since 2007, while residential, industrial and commercial fell 35 percent. From 2007 to 2011, the general fund of the city's budget has declined by $5.5 million.


•Local real estate agents are seeing values starting to increase in Livonia, but Kirksey believes it could take 11 to 15 years to return values to 2007 levels. “It's a long climb out,” he said. “This (assessed value increase) is limited by Proposal A and Headlee, and unless legislation changes it, and I don't think it will, it will be a very long steady climb out of it.”


•State shared revenue continues to fall. Even though Livonia meets the criteria of the Economic Vitality Incentive program, Livonia will receive $500,000 less this year from the state than in 2011.

Kirksey also had good news for the audience:


•Livonia's unemployment rate is 4.1 percent.


•New businesses include Trinity Health, Kohl's, Menards and Pet Supplies Plus. Trinity Health will move 1,400 employees into the former offices of Quicken Loans.


•Businesses retained in Livonia include Infineon, Alpha Stamping, Valassis and Applied Process. “There's been an erosion of it,” Kirksey said of manufacturing firms. “But it is coming back.” Eight of the top 17 employers in Livonia are manufacturing firms, he said.

In balancing the city's budget, the city has not closed any buildings nor eliminated any city service, though the levels of some services have been reduced, Kirksey said.

“It will be difficult not to make some serious cuts in the future,” he said.

Kirksey called economic development “the engine that drives the train.”

Preparing for 2013

“As Livonia prepares for 2013, we will continue to support economic development efforts to the maximum,” Kirksey said. The administration will continue to support quality of life services with the understanding that any reductions must reflect citizen priorities, he said.

“Our total game plan should be what can we do working together to make for a brighter future,” Kirksey said. “All of us need to reduce the cost of doing business.”

Afterward, council President Laura Toy was asked about what she expected during the roads millage discussion at the end of the month.

“We'll have to see what the dollars are and where they are going,” Toy said. “We haven't had a lot of discussion yet on this. We'll have to look at the roads and where the money will be used. We also need to get feedback at the Town Hall.”

Council member Maureen Miller Brosnan supports the renewal. “I think it's one of the single best things we've done for the community,” she said. “We're one of the first cities in the state to put together an assessment of our roads.” Those roads are listed in priority and a citizen advisory group reviews the list, she said.

The millage amount will be part of the discussion, Brosnan said: “We have to look at how much do we expect to accomplish versus what we need to accomplish.”

Council Vice President John Pastor supports the millage because it is “something you can see, touch and feel” in terms of expenditures with the new roads.

Kirksey referenced that 70 percent of the local city-operated roads were in now in good condition because of the roads millage. Pastor was encouraged and supportive of that, and wanted to see what it takes to repair the last 30 percent of the roads.

Councilman Brandon Kritzman said roads were the second most talked about issue during his campaign last year. Economic development was first.

Kritzman supports the millage. With declining property values, the city “isn't seeing as much bang for the buck,” he said. “We'll also have to look at how high they might go and see how much they do increase in 10 years.”
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Justasking
Advanced Member
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Better Headline:
"City looks to continue improving roads; wants to continue voter approved millage"
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DADDYOH10
Member Avatar
Veteran
Don't you get tired of the same old, same old? Another millage for our friends, family, cronies, and crooks @ City Hall. These are the same people who voted in Bush, who got his cronies to rob us as a country and cause this housing mess. You want "beauty in Livonia, you'd better cough it up.
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Otis B.
Veteran
Justasking
Mar 12 2012, 02:10 PM
Better Headline:
"City looks to continue improving roads; wants to continue voter approved millage"
"Livonia residents can expect to see a renewal, or an increase, of the road millage on the ballot, possibly as early as August."

Translated from Kirksese: "Your taxes are going up."


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injuneer
Advanced Member
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The only way your taxes are going up is if you vote to raise them. The city council can only vote to put the issue on a ballot and it hasnt been determined yet if they will propose to keep the existing millage rate as it is or increase it.

Historically there are two ways to fund road/sidewalk repair in a city. Either we pay collectively using something like the current 10 year millage or you pay individually for repairs done in front of your property (special assessment). Personally and professionally I prefer the millage option. The road millage has been one of the better things we have done in this city and has been a model for many neighboring cities.
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Justasking
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Otis B.
Mar 12 2012, 03:35 PM
Justasking
Mar 12 2012, 02:10 PM
Better Headline:
"City looks to continue improving roads; wants to continue voter approved millage"
"Livonia residents can expect to see a renewal, or an increase, of the road millage on the ballot, possibly as early as August."

Translated from Kirksese: "Your taxes are going up."


....after having dropped by a third or more.

Your taxes will go up, probably well below what you were paying, only if voter approved.

Why are you attacking the Mayor for putting something up for a vote? Would you prefer if things were simply dictated to the citizens?
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Ava
Member Avatar
So what? Who cares?
Yeah, your taxes were lowered, so stop complaining! I'm so tired of this argument! This does not mean I should be grateful and be willing to pay more taxes! Property values are down, so our taxes SHOULD be lower! For example, when it rains, I get wet.

If your home is worth less than what you owe on your mortgage, why would you want to pay more in taxes? Just asking, why? WHY????

Don't worry though, if Kirksey wants a road millage renewal, the seniors citizens will be out in droves to pass it. Kirksey is King with Livonia seniors! Plain and simple, they are the majority of voters. Whatever he wants, he gets. Think about it, why do you think he won the last election? WHY????I didn't vote for him, did you???
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Mrs.M
Veteran
Otis B.
Mar 12 2012, 03:35 PM
Justasking
Mar 12 2012, 02:10 PM
Better Headline:
"City looks to continue improving roads; wants to continue voter approved millage"
"Livonia residents can expect to see a renewal, or an increase, of the road millage on the ballot, possibly as early as August."



The precursor is "or an increase". Actually the increase is foreshadowed, since the home value has gone down, the mil will not be enough to cover the increasing cost of repair. But good news...your tax will STILL be less than what the taxes were last year or 5 years ago...

I am sick and tired of the argument but "you're still paying less in taxes than you were 2 or 3 or 4 years ago." This justification, of an increase in taxes, was old the first timeour elected officials used it. That was heard ad nauseum with the Greenmead, senior center and public saftey millages.

As far as the sidewalk repair goes, residents still pay a portion per slab, I'm not sure what the actual charge is per slab from Rotundo or whoever gets the contract. However, IF city r-o-w tree roots are the cause of the broken or raised slab, the city (uses funds from this milage to pick up the tab).

I know there were some residents in nearby communities who have been successful in challenging their city to have the city pay to replace slabs misaligned because of 'city trees'.

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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Ava
Member Avatar
So what? Who cares?
Mrs.M
Mar 13 2012, 09:20 AM
Otis B.
Mar 12 2012, 03:35 PM
Justasking
Mar 12 2012, 02:10 PM
Better Headline:
"City looks to continue improving roads; wants to continue voter approved millage"
"Livonia residents can expect to see a renewal, or an increase, of the road millage on the ballot, possibly as early as August."



The precursor is "or an increase". Actually the increase is foreshadowed, since the home value has gone down, the mil will not be enough to cover the increasing cost of repair. But good news...your tax will STILL be less than what the taxes were last year or 5 years ago...

I am sick and tired of the argument but "you're still paying less in taxes than you were 2 or 3 or 4 years ago." This justification, of an increase in taxes, was old the first timeour elected officials used it. That was heard ad nauseum with the Greenmead, senior center and public saftey millages.

As far as the sidewalk repair goes, residents still pay a portion per slab, I'm not sure what the actual charge is per slab from Rotundo or whoever gets the contract. However, IF city r-o-w tree roots are the cause of the broken or raised slab, the city (uses funds from this milage to pick up the tab).

I know there were some residents in nearby communities who have been successful in challenging their city to have the city pay to replace slabs misaligned because of 'city trees'.

I remember now....they cleverly put the public safety milliage on the ballot with a milliage for the senior center! Great way to get more seniors to the polls! I wonder what they will do this time???
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Justasking
Advanced Member
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Ava
Mar 13 2012, 09:07 AM
Yeah, your taxes were lowered, so stop complaining! I'm so tired of this argument! This does not mean I should be grateful and be willing to pay more taxes! Property values are down, so our taxes SHOULD be lower! For example, when it rains, I get wet.

If your home is worth less than what you owe on your mortgage, why would you want to pay more in taxes? Just asking, why? WHY????

Don't worry though, if Kirksey wants a road millage renewal, the seniors citizens will be out in droves to pass it. Kirksey is King with Livonia seniors! Plain and simple, they are the majority of voters. Whatever he wants, he gets. Think about it, why do you think he won the last election? WHY????I didn't vote for him, did you???
1. I don't see how your home being worth less than your mortgage has anything to do with tax rates. If I paid cash for my house, or got a 100% mortgage, the taxes shouldn't be different. I am not following your train of thought.

2. Property values went down. Taxes went down. City Revenue went down. We agree on that. What do you want to do without? That is where we disagree. I don't want to give up the road improvement program. I don't want to start paying "per bag" for trash pickup. I don't want to have fewer police or fire fighters around. So, we need to bring the revenues back up.

Yes, I know that is a VERY unpopular opinion around here. I have said it before and will say it again. I like my city and am willing to pay to keep it nice. Everything costs money.

Revenues are down. Without and increase in the millage rate, the city will need to cut services. I don't want that.
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Otis B.
Veteran
Bingo, Ava. Jack is a master of manipulating voter turnout in his favor. He'll think of something crafty.

I too have had it up to here with "but the taxes will still be lower" argument. If our housing values ever get out of the toilet, our tax rates will be outrageous and provide a huge disincentive for anyone who wants to move to Livonia. But don't expect Jack and city council to think long-term about our problems (unless it involves a boondoggle like their silly little downtown idea).

Justasking is approaching Livonianeighbors all-star status when it comes to shilling for Kirksey. Bravo!
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Otis B.
Veteran
"Revenues are down. Without and increase in the millage rate, the city will need to cut services. I don't want that."

I don't buy it for a second. We already know how much waste goes unaddressed by Jack and CC (courthouse, city paid cars) and I imagine there is quite a bit of fat that can be cut. But since Jack and CC are so firmly entrenched in the network, they are unwilling to do it.

Plenty of other cities around here face the same problems, and are able to address it without shaking down the taxpayers every year.
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injuneer
Advanced Member
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"Plenty of other cities around here face the same problems, and are able to address it without shaking down the taxpayers every year. "

Otis name one city in the area that repairs or paves its roads as part of its standard operating millage. There are none. almost all cities are still using SAD to fund road repairs and a few have followed Livonias model of a citywide millage. I also am not a fan of the concept of raising millage rates to compensate for lower taxable values but that hasnt even been put on the table yet. I would rather wait and see what the council proposes before pulling out the pitchforks.

"If our housing values ever get out of the toilet, our tax rates will be outrageous and provide a huge disincentive for anyone who wants to move to Livonia."

Livonia is not in a bubble. If housing values increase they will increase the same in other similar communities and taxes with it. Beside we have the lowest tax rate of any city in the area and the property tax can only increase by the inflation rate multiplier or 5% whichever is less. That rate has been around 2 or 3% since Proposal A was passed. it is projected that even if housing values skyrocket in the next few years it will take cities 12 to 14 years to recover the tax revenue lost in the past few years due to proposal a. So dont be expecting outrageous tax bills anytime soon.
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Otis B.
Veteran
Injuneer, I'm referring to the general strategy of the Kirksey administration which is to propose a new tax every time a problem arises.
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Justasking
Advanced Member
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Otis B.
Mar 13 2012, 10:29 AM
Bingo, Ava. Jack is a master of manipulating voter turnout in his favor. He'll think of something crafty.

I too have had it up to here with "but the taxes will still be lower" argument. If our housing values ever get out of the toilet, our tax rates will be outrageous and provide a huge disincentive for anyone who wants to move to Livonia. But don't expect Jack and city council to think long-term about our problems (unless it involves a boondoggle like their silly little downtown idea).

Justasking is approaching Livonianeighbors all-star status when it comes to shilling for Kirksey. Bravo!
Otis, you seem to be forgetting the Headlee Amendment. Taxes can't skyrocket back up. The State prohibits it.
Even if somehow all Livonia property doubled in value tomorrow, they can't increase your taxes by more than inflation.
http://www.michiganinbrief.org/edition06/text/issues/issue-31.htm

So there. Now, am I still "schilling" for Kirksey when I show facts that show you are incorrect in your understanding of the situation?

Of course, they can go up if we vote for it.
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Justasking
Advanced Member
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Otis B.
Mar 13 2012, 10:36 AM
"Revenues are down. Without and increase in the millage rate, the city will need to cut services. I don't want that."

I don't buy it for a second. We already know how much waste goes unaddressed by Jack and CC (courthouse, city paid cars) and I imagine there is quite a bit of fat that can be cut. But since Jack and CC are so firmly entrenched in the network, they are unwilling to do it.

Plenty of other cities around here face the same problems, and are able to address it without shaking down the taxpayers every year.
Again, you are spouting inaccuracies.

Where does the Court House money come from? Does it come from the general fund, or does it come from a special fee that is assessed to users of the court?

The Court bonds are paid by the court. The Court collects fees and uses that money to pay the city for the bonds.

How is this bad? USERS OF THE COURT PAY FOR THE COURT!

Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument that the city is trying to screw all of us.
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Justasking
Advanced Member
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Here is a quote from one of my old posts...maybe it will help people understand the situation.


I see this as a valid reason. Allow me to explain.
(I am making up all of these dates/numbers to make my explanation as simple as possible)
-1995, all property in Livonia was worth 1.5 billion, taxes bring the city $23 million
-2006, all property in Livonia was worth 2.5 billion, taxes bring the city $30 million (raise not proportional due to Headlee Amendment)
-2011, all property in Livonia was worth 1.5 billion, taxes bring city $20 million.
How do you expect the city to work with $10 million less? Costs rose, we invested more in capital, depts grew, structural costs increased. You expect the same services that you got when the city was getting $30 million in taxes, but now they aren't getting that. Something has to give. As citizens, we either need to say "I am willing to pay for the level of services I was getting", or "I am not willing, and I am glad I finally got a break on my taxes, now close the Libraries (or parks or a fire station or something)". I am sure some people want this. It is reasonable from someone that doesn't see a value in those services.

This is my opinion. I expect what I was getting 4 years ago. Yep, I took a $100-150k haircut on my house, but until I move, that is irrelevant. I still make the same mortgage payment, I still live here, nothing has changed in that regard since 1995. My tax increases were limited by Headlee. The decreases are not limited.

Time for real numbers: My 2007 tax bill was $4,567; my tax bill for 2011 was $2,998. The city would have to raise my taxes 50% just to get back to where they were in 2007. What business can survive with a 34% cut in revenues and still provide a similar level of service? I will agree there was some fat to be trimmed, but 1 out of every 3 positions? I can't fathom that.

I realize I have gotten WAY off the School Bond topic, but I get tired of everyone expecting the same level of service from a city that is getting 1/3 less in revenue. Tell me how you provide services with 1/3 less revenue?

Now, that said, I haven't checked the city website to see if the budget fell by more or less than 1/3. There could have been changes to the State revenue sharing, changes to bond payments, increases in other revenue, concessions from workers, cuts, etc. I know my payment is a full 1/3 less. I am willing to pay more.

Sorry for the long rant, but my question still stands: How does a gov't entity get by with so much less funding so quickly? I applaud them for not having to lay off tons of cops and firefighters or completely close a library branch.

I have gotten one raise since 2008, so I know what it means to cut back.
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Ava
Member Avatar
So what? Who cares?
Justasking
Mar 13 2012, 10:27 AM
Ava
Mar 13 2012, 09:07 AM
Yeah, your taxes were lowered, so stop complaining! I'm so tired of this argument! This does not mean I should be grateful and be willing to pay more taxes! Property values are down, so our taxes SHOULD be lower! For example, when it rains, I get wet.

If your home is worth less than what you owe on your mortgage, why would you want to pay more in taxes? Just asking, why? WHY????

Don't worry though, if Kirksey wants a road millage renewal, the seniors citizens will be out in droves to pass it. Kirksey is King with Livonia seniors! Plain and simple, they are the majority of voters. Whatever he wants, he gets. Think about it, why do you think he won the last election? WHY????I didn't vote for him, did you???
1. I don't see how your home being worth less than your mortgage has anything to do with tax rates. If I paid cash for my house, or got a 100% mortgage, the taxes shouldn't be different. I am not following your train of thought.

2. Property values went down. Taxes went down. City Revenue went down. We agree on that. What do you want to do without? That is where we disagree. I don't want to give up the road improvement program. I don't want to start paying "per bag" for trash pickup. I don't want to have fewer police or fire fighters around. So, we need to bring the revenues back up.

Yes, I know that is a VERY unpopular opinion around here. I have said it before and will say it again. I like my city and am willing to pay to keep it nice. Everything costs money.

Revenues are down. Without and increase in the millage rate, the city will need to cut services. I don't want that.
If you are upside-down on your mortgage (meaning you owe more than it is worth), you would not be too happy with a tax increase, which will raise your monthly payment. You can raise property taxes only so high---especially on homeowners who are already upside-down on their mortgages---before those homeowners give up and either turn their keys into the bank or let their house go to a tax sale. Just what this city needs....more foreclosures.

I don't know about you, but I don't have a money tree in my Livonia backyard. If Kirksey needs more money, he should negotiate with the unions and cut salary & benefits for city employees (NOOOOOO!!!!! We can't do that)!
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Otis B.
Veteran
"Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument that the city is trying to screw all of us."

They've already screwed us with 3 tax increases in the past 2 years.

Meanwhile Jack and CC are planning the next taxpayer boondoggle....DOWNTOWN LIVONIA!

But you keep shilling for Jack, sweetie. I'm sure he keeps you buttered up with a nice city job.
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DADDYOH10
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Veteran
Find the money some where else, like a pension cut for eternal administrators and hangers on, and people who can't find find real work or are looking to milk the system, and the taxpayer always gets the bill.
We all know there is self-promoting, self pepetuating feel of power in the government sector, that makes it want to ignore the that times are not what they used to be! Lets cut administrative cars, insurance and expense account!
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