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| Downtown Livonia? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 20 2012, 12:05 AM (1,749 Views) | |
| Mrs.M | Feb 20 2012, 12:05 AM Post #1 |
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Downtown Livonia? Council committee looks at idea Feb. 19, 2012 | 1 Comments Written by Ken Abramczyk Observer Staff Writer Filed Under News Livonia City officials are examining and investigating the possibility of creating a downtown Livonia. City Council members are expected to travel to Gahanna, Ohio, a suburb with 33,000 residents located east of Columbus, to view a downtown, mixed-use, high-density area. Gahanna's Creekside development features 71 luxury condominiums, 100,000 square feet of commercial space in three separate buildings and other amenities. The idea is nothing more than a concept at this point, according to Joe Laura, who chairs the council's Economic Development, Community Outreach and Strategic Planning Committee. The committee, which includes council members Maureen Miller Brosnan and Brandon Kritzman, discussed the concept Wednesday night, with Mayor Jack Kirksey and officials from OHM, a Livonia firm of engineers, architects and planners, along with some residents. No location discussed There was no discussion that evening on where the downtown would be located. Laura said he scheduled the discussion for a committee meeting after speaking with Kritzman a month ago and with Councilman John Pastor, who also has expressed an interest in creating a downtown. Internet discussions and speculation about a downtown spurred Laura to schedule the discussion in committee, Laura said. That Internet discussion has focused on the Five Mile and Farmington Road area as a potential site, but the committee did not discuss a location at this time. “We want to go down as council members to a suburb of Columbus, Ohio, and what's been done there in terms of economic development,” Laura said. The trip is expected to be a day trip with all seven council members, paid for by council members out of their own pocket, according to Council President Laura Toy. Throughout the evening, Joe Laura tempered expectations, stating that the idea was “only a concept” right now. He wanted to eventually develop a business plan and see whether the idea was even feasible for the city. “Either you have something or you don't,” Laura said. Kritzman said the project isn't something that is accomplished overnight. “We need to start out with what our expectations are before talking about a business plan or property,” Kritzman said. ‘Changing demographic' John Hiltz, president of OHM, said there was a lot of opportunity for high-density, mixed-use development in Livonia. “The city may be interested in a partnership (with a private developer) if it results in a positive impact for the city,” Hiltz said. Such a development could help with values of homes, Hiltz said. “We have a changing demographic,” Hiltz said. “The vision and strategy will continue to change.” Kirksey told the committee he supports the concept. He said later that he endorsed the idea, and welcomes the discussion about it, but has reservations about the costs. Brosnan asked what steps needed to be taken. Jim Houk, planner with OHM, said surveys and meetings with business and other citizen groups gathered input in Gahanna before developing and building Creekside. Communities need to look at other competing communities and what attracts new residents, Houk said. “With the changing demographics, every community is in competition to bring in new residents,” Houk said. Houk said Gahanna's development cost $55 million. The city offset a part of its portion of the cost through a Tax Increment Finance plan and other means such as a parking garage, Houk said. A vision and a plan can help bring developers to the table. “What is the vision of the community and is it enough to support the investment made by the company?” Houk asked. Home values impacted In response to a question from Councilman Tom Robinson on what the return on investment could be for residents, Houk said housing values jumped 10 percent in Gahanna because of the community's walkability to the new development. A steering committee was established and three open meetings were scheduled to talk with residents and businesses about the impact of the development before Gahanna proceeded, Houk said. Houk said economic development was changing in the communities he was working with. “Economic Development departments would go out and we'd find ourselves in bidding wars with three or four other communities,” Houk said. “You are getting into a changing environment from a business standpoint. They are less concerned about that and more concerned about attracting talent,” Developing a city plan and vision will help. “If you have a desirable city to live in, the business will follow the people,” Houk said. Employees are not following the jobs, Houk said. “It's now ‘I will choose where I want to live,' and businesses are reacting to that,” Houk said. Livonia resident Bill Joyner thanked the council and the committee for looking at the idea. He believes that evening's meeting might be the start of redefining Livonia for the next 20, 50 or 100 years. “I'm glad you took the first step,” Joyner said. Steve King, a former school board member, said he hoped the council would take the idea and “run with it and at least find out if the community is interested.” Laura expects that the location of the site would be discussed at a later date, and added that “it might be multiple locations.” “I expect we'll do something within 90 days after we take our trip there (to Gahanna). We just want to see how feasible it is.” Costs a concern On Thursday, Kirksey said he endorsed looking at any potential downtown, and added it could be a “great thing,” but is concerned about potential costs and doesn't want to support any proposal with significant costs. The city was created from old farmland for homes and businesses, but no downtown was created, so creating one may require demolition and relocating businesses. “Industry and schools were taking shape without anything in the master plan,” Kirksey said. Kirksey believes it would be “physically impossible” to replicate a downtown Plymouth or Northville without expensive costs. Kirksey believes the 2013 budget will be “a nightmare” and the city may have to look at eliminating services. “The whole definition of a downtown is currently in people's minds,” he said. With nothing on the boards, no planning money or grant money, there are no funds set aside to create a downtown, Kirksey said. But he added that he supported the visioning aspect. “It would be something that OHM and Brandon Kritzman are talking about, a high density use with retail and condos above the stores.” Kirksey also said any rumors about the city discussing purchasing or exchanging property with the school district were just that - rumors. “It's an unfortunate byproduct of people just talking that led up to last night's meeting,” he said. Kirksey said he would not comment on where he thinks a downtown should be built if the city decided to proceed with one because “it would only lead to unfounded rumors.” kabramcz@hometownlife.com (313) 222-2591 Twitter: @KenAbramcz http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20120219/NEWS10/202190475/Downtown-Livonia-Council-committee-looks-idea?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Livonia|s |
| I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG. | |
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| Mrs.M | Feb 20 2012, 12:11 AM Post #2 |
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This idea has been suggested numerous times over the past 10 years. I remember Frank Kalinski (as well as Brosnan) going into details with an idea of a downtown area...including a bike route. Kalinski was pooh-poohed by the majority on council or wasn't taken serious by others NOW it's being considered and 'investigated' for further discussion? Ironically some of those who ignored the suggestion now seem to be jumping on the bandwagon. |
| I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG. | |
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| Otis B. | Feb 20 2012, 11:10 AM Post #3 |
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It's a nice idea, but as always, how much $$ is it going to cost our already cash-strapped city? |
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| Otis B. | Feb 20 2012, 01:24 PM Post #4 |
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Interesting conversation in the Observer comments section with Brandon Kritzmann seeking residents feedback on the downtown issue: http://www.hometownlife.com/comments/article/20120216/NEWS10/120216005/Downtown-Livonia-Council-committee-looks-idea |
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| DADDYOH10 | Feb 20 2012, 10:29 PM Post #5 |
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hey, hey...that's just what we need now. Where was the leadership when this was economically a little more feasible and realistic? OUT TO LUNCH! And no doubt in a city owned vehicle. I hope foreclosure doesn't keep us from moving out ...I'd really like to live here long enough to see how this even gets off the ground, seeing as how the Mayor is already grumbling about next year's budget. Most likely to prep us for more taxes to go to this boondoggle, all the while, trash pick-up will stop, neighborhoods will have to hire their own snowplows, the roads will deteriorate, the parks will turn to dust, and wal-mart will be the crowning glory to the downtown. |
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| livonianeedshelp | Feb 27 2012, 09:23 PM Post #6 |
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The reason this is being pushed is that Jack wants it as his legacy, also this can't happen unless the school board will swap land with the city and I don't think Jack can get the votes from the school board to do the land swap. The second reason this is such a crooked deal already and the reason that Kritzmen (sp) wants support for this project is that his architectural firm has already done the plans for the project and he would get a nice paycheck. Thirdly, John Pastor will push this project because he wants to get some if not all of the building for his construction firm. This is a bad deal. So watch for Brandon and Pastor to push for this project because of their selfish natures and their greed. |
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| Mrs.M | Feb 27 2012, 11:09 PM Post #7 |
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OK, that makes sense, in years past the council was adamant that residents knew they were a separate entity from the schools and had no influence and no concern with what decisions the school board made. Interesting, a get together at East Side Marios. puzzle pieces start falling into place. Kritzman firm would be a conflict of interest, oh wait Kritzman would recluse himself from a vote to avoid any thoughts of conflict. That always works when one of the politicians state, their connection to a bidder or whatever. |
| I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG. | |
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| Purple Haze | Feb 28 2012, 08:47 AM Post #8 |
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hey, maybe LPS could divest itself of its current offices on Farmington Road for this downtown thing and build something on the hopefully-squashed land deal with St. Marys!
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| Otis B. | Feb 28 2012, 10:54 AM Post #9 |
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Guys, come on, have a little faith. They're going on a "fact finding" mission to Ohio. They will return from our neighbor to the south enlightened with all of the answers to Livona's problems. |
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| livonianeedshelp | Feb 28 2012, 12:05 PM Post #10 |
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That trip is all of smokescreen for the public, if you want to see what Jack wants go to Dearborn and see what they have done, thats the plan they are going to follow. If Jack gets his way with the school board and gets the land watch how many of his friends get some of the contracts. Watch Schostak's (sp) spend money behind the scenes to try and build support for this project much in the manner that they and Jack did with the Northville annexation. |
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| Otis B. | Feb 28 2012, 12:59 PM Post #11 |
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They are trying to create a supply where there is no demand. Both Plymouth and Northville have established downtowns within a 10-mile radius of anywhere in Livonia. They expect us to believe that we will be able to compete with TWO established downtown areas for investors and customers? This will end up hurting Livonia in the long run as they will be forced to pull established Livonia businesses into this new boondoggle -- just like the annexation would have siphoned off of existing Livonia business. The good news is we can stop this just like we stopped the annexation. Remember how inevitable that was?? |
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| DADDYOH10 | Feb 28 2012, 01:30 PM Post #12 |
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KEYWORD HERE ON ALL ITEMS IS "BOONDOGGLE" |
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| Justasking | Feb 28 2012, 01:42 PM Post #13 |
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Couldn't you apply all of those arguments to Livonia Mall and Wonderland Mall? The re-developments there are successful, and they are within a 10-mile radius of all of the exact same services. Seems like all you guys want to do is bash the establishment and bash any ideas. :the good news is we can stop this"? You don't even know what this is yet and you have decided that it is good to stop it. How does it feel to be so closed to new ideas? Based on your posts, you are not happy with the current situation, yet you also hate new ideas. Enjoy your anger. I will move on and look for good ideas that can be explored. |
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| Otis B. | Feb 28 2012, 02:09 PM Post #14 |
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Not so fast there. I wouldn't necessarily call Wonderland and Livonia mall unqualified successes. And there is a big difference between using private developers to redevelop an existing shopping mall, and pouring god knows how much money into completely reapportioning public land. Finally, I don't trust anything to come out of Kirksey or his minion's mouths. So, yeah, I am extremely suspicious of any new "ideas" they have since they mostly have to do with enriching themselves at our expense. Livonia has a lot of problems. Not having a downtown ain't one of them. |
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| Purple Haze | Feb 28 2012, 06:44 PM Post #15 |
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heartily agreed! |
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| DADDYOH10 | Feb 29 2012, 06:46 PM Post #16 |
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Amen...This is something that is disguised as a good idea (think smoke, mirrors, a big bs shovel, and a gang of pickpockets |
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| Justasking | Feb 29 2012, 07:20 PM Post #17 |
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Daddy, Purple and Otis, You will find that negativity breeds on itself. You haven't even seen the ideas. You don't know a thing about the cost. You have no idea if and how it will impact you personally. Yet you have already condemned the project as a rip off boondoggle solution in search of a problem. You have removed any and all doubt that you simply anti-current gov't. They could offer everyone a free gold brick and you would probably complain about having to pay the taxes. Open your minds. You might find some good in something and find a way to get out of your negative world. Negative thoughts breed negative thoughts. |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 29 2012, 07:45 PM Post #18 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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And Rose Colored glasses breed money for Kirksey's wallet.
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| Purple Haze | Mar 1 2012, 09:44 AM Post #19 |
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Hey, Just, I consider myself a realist, not a negative person. Take a ride around Livonia and note the empty edifices that abound. Who in the heck gives a poop about a downtown Livonia, which will undoubtedly be a lot smaller than Plymouth or Northville, and not have the same quaint ambience to boot. Will a downtown raise my property value? I THINK NOT. Or perhaps you have some stake in this idea? A friend of Jack, perhaps? |
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| Otis B. | Mar 1 2012, 11:35 AM Post #20 |
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Justasking, we are negative about this project because we've heard this song and dance from Jack and Co. before. The annexation was going to be a magical golden goose that would provide hundreds, no, THOUSANDS of high paying jobs and millions in tax revenue for Livonia. It was going to solve all of our problems. Now go take a look at that property. It is the same mess it was in 2008 and Schostak has had zero interest in developing it since then. Just imagine if Livonia had been stuck with this toxic property? Not only would the magical development, thousands of jobs and millions in revenue never have materialized, taxpayers would be on the hook for cleanup, policing such a hazardous area, etc. By the way, many of us pointed out this probability at the time and were ridiculed by folks like yourself. So now it's 2012 and Jack and Co. now have another magical proposal to solve all of our problems. As Purple points out, a drive around Livonia reveals empty strip mall after empty strip mall. And Jack and Co. want to develop ADDITIONAL retail space? Based on what demand? We are against this because the basic premise is flawed, and Jack has proven himself to be foolish, corruptible by outside influences and prone to rash decisions. If it looks like a duck... |
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