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Livonia schools taking wait-and-see approach to funding issue; Observer-March 29, 2011
Topic Started: Mar 29 2011, 11:08 PM (1,379 Views)
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Livonia schools taking wait-and-see approach to funding issue
Karen Smith
OBSERVER STAFF WRITER

Rumors about cuts to Livonia Public Schools programs are just that for now — rumors.

The school board is taking a wait-and-see approach on the school funding issue before deciding which, if any, programs will be cut for the 2011-12 school year.

Gov. Rick Snyder has proposed cutting K-12 funding by $470 per student, but lawmakers have yet to act on his proposal.

Livonia Public Schools Supt. Randy Liepa was in Lansing last week testifying before House and Senate subcommittees on the impact the proposed cut would have. He expects to go back again in mid-April.

“I think we do need to wait and see how the House and Senate react to the testimony,” Liepa told school board members Monday.

Lawmakers plan to have a budget in place by June 1, Liepa said. By law, school districts must adopt their budgets by June 30.

PROJECTED $11 MILLION LOSS

In Livonia, the governor's proposal, combined with state-mandated increase in retirement costs, equals an $11 million revenue loss, Liepa said. The district has a $146 million general fund budget. Its projected fund balance for June 30 is $3.8 million.

For neighboring Clarenceville School District, the revenue loss equates to $1.9 million, Superintendent Pam Swert said. Clarenceville has a $19 million general fund budget and a projected fund balance of $2.6 million.

Liepa said he is asking lawmakers to not “raid” the School Aid Fund, which currently has a surplus, and recognize the cuts school districts have been making for the past decade. Snyder has proposed using about $900 million in the School Aid Fund in 2012 for community colleges and universities, Liepa said. Traditionally, the fund has been used almost exclusively for K-12 eduction.

Liepa said the Livonia district has reduced its budget by $44 million over the past 10 years. “We have very few places to go,” he said. He said colleges and universities have the ability to raise tuition.

If the governor's proposal is approved, Livonia will either have to cut “major items” or go into a deficit.

Trustee Rob Freeman said the movie industry and seniors have been protesting the governor's proposals to reduce tax credits and start taxing pensions. “We need to start considering action,” he said.

LOOKING FOR LEADERSHIP

He said neighboring school districts are looking to Livonia for leadership because it is one of the largest districts in the state.

Liepa said a lot already is going on. Last week, the Livonia school board adopted a resolution imploring state lawmakers to reject Snyder's proposal to cut K-12 funding. That resolution is being shared with school districts across Michigan, he said. In addition, two messages have gone out to Livonia parents and staff, he said.

In response to the resolution last week, state Rep. John Walsh, R-Livonia, House speaker pro tem, said that while he's very sympathetic and has always supported school districts and helped them avoid cuts in the past, he's not sure he'll be successful this time because of the $1.4 billion deficit the state is facing. He said he's hoping the cut to K-12 schools will be less than what's been proposed: “It would be unrealistic to think there would be no cuts, but I'm hoping it will be less.”

Freeman said rumors have started about what will be cut in Livonia.

Liepa said he isn't surprised people are looking at lists of proposed reductions the Livonia board has previously considered and wondering if they will be acted upon for 2011-12.

“People are very concerned,” he said.

CLARENCEVILLE TO MEET WITH PTAS

Clarenceville administrators will meet with PTA groups at its two elementary schools April 12 and 13. Even though the dust in Lansing is far from settled, Swert said the district is being proactive. “We want to get a good feeling for the direction our community would encourage us to go in,” she said.

Like Livonia, the district has “been cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting every year,” she said. Teachers already pay 17 to 32 percent of their health care, depending on the plan they choose. Last year, the district privatized custodial services.

“We've not had tremendous pay increases; we have been very fiscally wise,” Swert said.

Among the options being considered are reconfiguring the two elementary schools so one serves kindergartners through second graders and the other third through fifth graders; increasing class sizes to 32 students across the board; having more split-grade classes and increasing the percentage of schools of choice students from 15 percent to 17-18 percent.

ksmith@hometownlife.com | (313) 222-2098

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20110329/NEWS10/110329012/Livonia-schools-taking-wait-and-see-approach-to-funding-issue?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Livonia|p
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Teachers to hold "grade-in" in Livonia
11:08 AM, Apr. 14, 2011
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At least 50 teachers, mostly from Livonia Public Schools, are expected to hold a “grade in” from 6:30-7:30 p.m. today at Laurel Park Place mall in Livonia.

The grade in will be a peaceful, quiet demonstration at which teachers grade papers to show the public their work day continues long after the last bell rings and students are sent home, LPS teacher Erica Rebbe said.

Gov. Rick Snyder has proposed cutting school funding next school year by $300 per student across the state. For Livonia schools, that would create a deficit for Livonia schools of more than $13 million when combined with a $170 cut last school year, the state’s projected increase in retirement costs averaging $230 per student, and other budgetary pressures such as declining enrollment, according to administrators.

Snyder has been quoted as saying the $300 cut would not be necessary if teachers contributed 20 percent toward the cost of their benefits, including health care.

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20110414/NEWS10/110414009/Teachers-to-hold-grade-in-in-Livonia?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Livonia|s
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The grade in will be a peaceful, quiet demonstration at which teachers grade papers to show the public their work day continues long after the last bell rings and students are sent home, LPS teacher Erica Rebbe said.

And at the opposite end of the spectrum
I know of a teacher who would record the grades of spelling and math tests or quizzes, after the students checked each others - the students would wait in line to have their 'scores' entered into the computer program.

Other teachers would come in 45 minutes before school started to eliminate their contractually (mandated) 'after' school hours time.

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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
Quote:
 
The grade in will be a peaceful, quiet demonstration at which teachers grade papers to show the public their work day continues long after the last bell rings and students are sent home, LPS teacher Erica Rebbe said.


That's great, but the state is still out of money.

So.......
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134K
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sooo...instead of illegally diverting money from K-12 education to colleges and universities (who have many sources of revenue) leave the money where voters intended it to be.
Edited by 134K, Apr 15 2011, 08:32 AM.
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uh-oh
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My teacher friends have the usual, predicitable response--raise taxes!!!

After all, we parents (who apparently send our undernourished, sleep-deprived, behaviorally challenged children to school to tax the system) can afford to keep on paying for their health care, untaxed pensions, and summers off.

Duh...
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Ava
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134K
Apr 15 2011, 08:31 AM
sooo...instead of illegally diverting money from K-12 education to colleges and universities (who have many sources of revenue) leave the money where voters intended it to be.
The Michigan constitution is clear. The "school aid fund" can be used for higher education. The dems are trying to spin this, but the law is clear. In 1994, we voted to change the way we fund the schools, trading higher sales tax for lower property taxes. We did not vote to give all funds to K-12.

So......there is nothing "illegal" about diverting the funds to higher education. That's why the dems need a constitutional amendment to allocate the funds to K-12 only(i.e. more money for their pensions, and benefits). The governor isn't "stealing" money away from K-12. It seems they'll do anything to preserve their benefits......"for the children" ;) Nice try MEA.

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Ava
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one_observer
Apr 14 2011, 05:37 PM
Teachers to hold "grade-in" in Livonia
11:08 AM, Apr. 14, 2011
1 CommentsThe grade in will be a peaceful, quiet demonstration at which teachers grade papers to show the public their work day continues long after the last bell rings and students are sent home, LPS teacher Erica Rebbe said.

Gov. Rick Snyder has proposed cutting school funding next school year by $300 per student across the state. For Livonia schools, that would create a deficit for Livonia schools of more than $13 million when combined with a $170 cut last school year, the state’s projected increase in retirement costs averaging $230 per student, and other budgetary pressures such as declining enrollment, according to administrators.


At least 50 teachers, mostly from Livonia Public Schools, are expected to hold a “grade in” from 6:30-7:30 p.m. today at Laurel Park Place mall in Livonia.


Snyder has been quoted as saying the $300 cut would not be necessary if teachers contributed 20 percent toward the cost of their benefits, including health care.

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20110414/NEWS10/110414009/Teachers-to-hold-grade-in-in-Livonia?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Livonia|s






Be sure to bring your camera and post it on YouTube! :-/ How fun!
I misjudged teachers and what they do! I'm now convinced they shouldn't pay anything for health care or pensions!!! In fact, we should pay them more----even if we can't afford it! Because they care! They're even willing to sacrifice their Friday night to show the taxpayers just how much they do! Such sacrifice and dedication "for the children."

Let us not forget, you get paid very well for what you do in Livonia!

and.....

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/01/barely_passing_michigan_studen.html
Barely passing: Michigan students are testing at lower levels than many states, national education group finds

Personally, this taxpayer is sick of hearing PUBLIC SCHOOL teachers whine about what they want. How about being grateful for the job you have?! At least you have a job! Your "grade-in" is a self-serving whinathon!
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Teachers grade papers at Livonia mall to show how hard they work
3:41 PM, Apr. 15, 2011 |
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Written by
Karen Smith
Observer Staff Writer

Churchill math teacher Lynda Melcher corrects papers for her accelerated analysis class. At right is Churchill media specialist Terri Brantley-Jackson. / Bill Bresler | staff photographer


Erica Rebbe expected 50 teachers to show up for the “grade-in” she organized Thursday evening at Laurel Park Place mall, but more than 120 came.

Most were from Livonia Public Schools, but others came from Farmington, Northville, Dearborn, Walled Lake and Monroe.

“I think it’s important to educate the public that my day does not end at 3 o’clock,” said Kelly Eddy, an AP history teacher for Churchill High School in Livonia, explaining her reason for participating in the demonstration.

The teachers, some with their own children in tow, sat throughout the mall grading papers 6:30-7:30 p.m., something they said they otherwise would be doing at home. Many wore red T-shirts that read, “Teachers United We Stand.”

Gov. Rick Snyder has proposed cutting school funding next school year by $300 per student across the state. For Livonia schools, that would create a deficit of more than $13 million when combined with a $170 cut last school year, the state’s projected increase in retirement costs averaging $230 per student and other budgetary pressures such as declining enrollment, according to administrators.


Snyder has been quoted as saying the $300 cut would not be necessary if teachers contributed 20 percent toward the cost of their benefits, including health care.


Salaries and benefits make up the largest portion of a school district’s budget. For fiscal year 2009, personnel expenditures made up almost 90 percent of Livonia Public Schools’ general fund.


Eddy said teachers understand the state has a budget crisis, but are feeling stressed about being portrayed as the “bad guys.”


“School districts have been making cuts for many years,” she said.


Rebbe, a Livonia teacher, brought 120 copies of a flier with “talking points” to hand out to teachers as they came in to the mall, but within just a few minutes of the grade-in starting, she had none left. And many teachers were sharing, she said. “This was very successful,” she said, adding she plans to organize more.


Several Livonia teachers who attended the grade-in said they work 50 to 60 hours per week during the school year, grading papers and planning lessons late into the evening. During their time off for holidays and during the summer, they often take classes or workshops to keep their certification or to improve their knowledge base, they said.


They have to pay for their graduate-level classes out of their own pockets. Many also pay for supplies for their classrooms.


Anne Sherwood, who teaches fifth grade at Johnson Upper Elementary School, said teachers start out making far less than other college graduates with an undergrad degree. Those in the private sector who go on to get a master’s degree can expect to earn a six-figure salary, she said.


“I will not apologize for the salary that I deserve,” she said, adding that working with children is among the most important jobs.


The Livonia teachers said they have agreed to concessions, including taking pay freezes, agreeing to seven furlough days over two years and doubling the contributions for their health care. Those contributions currently range from $560 to $960 a year for the 1,100 members of the Livonia Education Association.


According to Donna McDowell, LPS communications administrator, a teacher with a bachelor’s degree with no experience makes $37,429. One at the top of the scale (after 14 step increases) makes $70,661 with a bachelor’s degree and $82,984 with a master’s degree. Those salaries do not reflect lost wages through the furlough days, McDowell said.


Karen Danke, a music teacher who works at three LPS schools, said the concessions have eaten up the contractual step increases she received so she’s taking home less money than she used to.


But, Sherwood said, “None of us went into this because of the money.”
The proposed cuts will hurt kids, she said. Class sizes have increased, and programs like music and foreign language have been cut.


“Children are our future,” Sherwood said.


Kate Herriff, who teaches sixth grade at Johnson, is worried about the slippery slope. “Where does that end?” she said of cutting education. “Where does that stop?”


Maureen McGowan, who teaches seventh-grade science at Holmes Middle School in Livonia, said the state needs to cut across the board to erase its $1.4 billion deficit. Cutting or eliminating taxes for businesses, as Snyder has proposed, isn’t the answer, she said: “I don’t think anyone should go without paying taxes. We all bear the brunt of paying for education.”


She said well-educated students will be the business leaders of tomorrow.
She also wants bargaining rights preserved without the threat of an emergency financial manager being able to come in and modify contracts.


Chris Pinta, who teachers sixth grade at Johnson, said he doesn’t begrudge the pay and benefits that people in other professions get, and he realizes they also work long hours.


He said he doesn’t have a problem with “reasonable concessions,” but he doesn’t think education should bear the full burden: “Why is it that we have to take this hit?”
Laura Zabo, a Garden City mom out shopping with her children Thursday evening, said she’s always known how hard teachers work and didn’t need a grade-in to realize it. “I really do appreciate the time they put into it,” she said. “It’s a lot of work.”

ksmith@hometownlife.com | (313) 222-2098

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20110415/NEWS10/110415024/Teachers-grade-papers-at-Livonia-mall-to-show-how-hard-they-work?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Livonia|p

jcjcj1
5:01 PM on April 15, 2011
We know teachers have to grade papers. Lots of people working full time jobs year round, and making less money, have to take work home with them. I've never understood why teachers think they are the only ones who do this.

And, let's see, their school day is, at most, 7 hours, and I believe there is a "planning hour" in there somewhere and, of course, they get to eat lunch at some point, and they make more money and have better benefits than a lot of people with the same educational attainment, and they don't have to work summers, Thanksgiving break, fall break, Christmas break, winter break, spring break, all federal holidays.....

So, I'm sorry, but I just don't feel sorry for them.

I have nothing against teachers. I just can't take it when they complain about not being paid enough for what they do. Again, if the job doesn't pay enough, then why did you CHOOSE it? You didn't just wake up one day and find you were a teacher. You had to get a degree in Education, which would indicate that you were CHOOSING education as your career.

Now, like everyone else in this state, you are finding that your employer (myself, and the rest of the residents of this state) don't have the money to pay you what you were making before. Get over it. We are all in the same boat, except your boat is still a lot bigger and has a lot more amenities than the boats of most of the rest of us. (I know, I pretty much trashed that metaphor.)

Teachers in this state had a great deal for a long time. We can't afford to give them that great deal anymore. And no amount of whining is going to change that fact. They can blame their union for running us right into the ground by extorting platinum level benefits from all too complicit school districts.

Somebody's chickens are coming home to roost.

cupsandmagnets
7:13 PM on April 15, 2011
Well jcjcj, For someone who has nothing against teachers, you sure have nothing nice to say about them. Now, why don't you go sit in the hall and think about the way you choose your words !


jcjcj1
8:09 PM on April 15, 2011
I believe I chose my words very carefully. The worst word I used was "whining". And nothing I said was false.

Thus, having given my choice of words due consideration, I would choose them all again.


cupsandmagnets
8:53 PM on April 15, 2011
All right ! I've had just about enough of your bad attitude jcjcj. Now you go straight to the Principals office right now !

jcjcj1
10:57 PM on April 15, 2011
:)


porkchop1
8:00 PM on April 15, 2011
Wow grading papers for an hour at home.......I'll trade that for working on proposals, emails and planning sales calls at home.


jbjwar
9:07 PM on April 15, 2011
Yes, I chose to be a teacher. And you chose your profession! If your job was being threatened I'm sure you would also have some resentment. What I don't understand is why no one is getting upset about the fact that money taxpayers in Livonia believed was going to come back to their schools is now going to businesses and higher education!

As teachers, we know there are going to be concessions. But I hope you know that even if we pay the 20% insurance premiums AND take a 5% pay cut, your school district will STILL have a $3million deficit! I DID go into education because I love the job--it IS all about the kids, but it's also my livelihood and how my husband and I support our family. I knew going into the profession I wouldn't make a ton of money but I would have good insurance and a good pension. As those things are being attacked, I have to wonder what kind of teachers will now be willing to come into such a demanding field!
And by the way, for the person that said he would trade my one hour of grading papers for his job he does every night, it's not just an hour of grading papers--I don't have enough time to do everything I need to do! Besides grading papers, coming up with lessons that will somehow capture all of the learning styles my classroom, calling parents to beg them to get their children to stay after school for help, doing my graduate course work that I'm required to do without compensation, I'm also trying to be a good mom at home to my own children. I was 45 minutes late getting home today because I was talking to two girls that have alcoholic parents and need a way to get to school on time since their parents won't drive them earlier than 9am--does your job deal with that? If that's not important enough to warrant a 'planning period' (which I use every second of), and a lunch (which I work during most of the time), then I'm sorry.

cupsandmagnets
9:43 PM on April 15, 2011
Great post jbjwar. Every one of us in Michigan is making some kind of concession, but all these people suddenly slamming teachers should be ashamed of themselves. They come off as being angry that you get the summer off and so forth. I am not a teacher, but I have great memories of mine and almost all of my kids teachers. My wife is going into the teaching profession and I hope things will stabilze somewhat by then. Sorry for the abuse some of these unappreciative people are giving you.

porkchop1
7:31 AM on April 16, 2011
Guess what ! I don't have time to do all thats needed in my job also. Besides making customer calls during the day and working on daily problems....not enough time. Does your job deal with quotas and monthly reveiws on performance ? Lunch? Sometimes off my dash board... or not at all . I get 4 weeks of vacation . No breaks. I chose my profession. Just a look into another world JBJWAR

mrsh5
10:07 PM on April 15, 2011
It is a shame that teachers in the United States are not respected as they are in other countries in the world. Teachers do work hard just as others do in their professions too. I am an educator and think the sit in was silly. I agree that if you choose the field of education you realize the amount of personal time that you will spend on grading papers, aligning standards with your lessons, coming up with many assessments with which to assess your students, designing lessons to meet all the needs of the students in your classroom, researching ideas to present and implement strategies in the classroom, and continually take professional development classes to enhance instruction for your students, so they may successfully meet all state requirements. In addition to meeting the curriculum needs for each of your 30 students you need to teach students how to cope with social issues with friends, tending to their needs when they are not feeling quite like themselves, listening to each of them as they want to share an important fact, multi-task while maintaining a well organized classroom, and making sure they are involved in the learning. Yes, teachers may have the summers away from the classroom however many teachers take classes and attend conferences to improve and keep abreast of all educational tools and strategies to educate their students. Yes, I am an educator and proud to be entrusted with all the children that have passed through my classroom, and welcome those who will in the future. I do not work in public education, nor do I belong to a union, nor do I earn what teachers in the public schools earn, I have had to make concessions too, and I do agree that as in any profession there are good educators, and others who could improve but please don't lump us altogether!

tchr2276
10:43 PM on April 15, 2011
I have been a teacher for almost 15 years and in that time I have been amazed and saddened by the dimishing respect that people give to ALL professions. What are we teaching children when we openly bash the people they are supposed to respect and learn from? What are we teaching them when we shoot people and professions down, and then try to justify our use of words. I'm really not just talking about teachers....politicians, police, authority figures, and teachers. When we teach children that it is ok to make some one feel like less of a person or they are not worthy of what they have, we teach our children how to bully and how to be disrespectful.
We are tired of the bullying behavior. Our profession is getting harder each year, and we are making less. We are making concessions, but whatever concessions we make do not seem to be good enough for the public. It is hard to be bombarded by people who think we are whining, overpaid, underworked, have been getting a great deal. In one day I am expected to be a nurse, social worker, psycologist, actor, entertainer, technology expert, mother, friend, evaluator, and then teach. AND THAT IS JUST WITH THE STUDENTS. I also have to plan, research, continue my education, call parents, respond to emails, plan field trips, fill out book orders, meet with collegues on shared students, do my building required book study, run extra curricular activities, purchase supplies for lessons (most of the time with my own money) grade papers and do all this without thinking about how people think I do not do enough and my 50 minute plan time only 4 days a week can cover all of that.
I am not whining, that is my reality, and I love it. What I do not love is the bashing and bullying.

livres2010
9:43 AM on April 16, 2011
I think we can stop the "works hard" in every recent discussion on teachers, pensions, public employees etc. EVERYONE SHOULD work hard at their job. If it's public sector, a deep fryer at McDonalds or President of a company. If you didn't then you lose your job or the business you started goes under.
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Anne Sherwood, who teaches fifth grade at Johnson Upper Elementary School, said teachers start out making far less than other college graduates with an undergrad degree. Those in the private sector who go on to get a master’s degree can expect to earn a six-figure salary, she said.


Really??? Where did she get that idea? This teacher really needs to do her homework.
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Hopeful
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Sherwood also says that foreign language and music may have to be cut.

WHY?!? This District just turned everyone on its A** five years ago to save all kinds of money and supposedly enhance those programs. So if that's not working, maybe we should go back to neighborhood schools and sell that fleet of buses that they purchased to bus the kids all over town....... OH wait, they even bus the kids out of town!

Wake up Sherwood, the parents of this district are starting to realize that the kids are the ones that seem to keep coming up short in the education.

Go ahead, grade papers at the mall, at least we know that this batch wasn't done by fellow students.
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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
Hopeful
Apr 16 2011, 08:01 PM
Sherwood also says that foreign language and music may have to be cut.

WHY?!? This District just turned everyone on its A** five years ago to save all kinds of money and supposedly enhance those programs. So if that's not working, maybe we should go back to neighborhood schools and sell that fleet of buses that they purchased to bus the kids all over town....... OH wait, they even bus the kids out of town!

Wake up Sherwood, the parents of this district are starting to realize that the kids are the ones that seem to keep coming up short in the education.

Go ahead, grade papers at the mall, at least we know that this batch wasn't done by fellow students.
Yeah, we have to send our kids to school with red pens/pencils so the kids can check their own papers! Nice to see them actually grading some of the papers themselves! Heck, they even have parents proofread papers and sign after checking them! Maybe we should grade papers at the mall too! ;)
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134K
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Ava
Apr 15 2011, 09:12 AM
134K
Apr 15 2011, 08:31 AM
sooo...instead of illegally diverting money from K-12 education to colleges and universities (who have many sources of revenue) leave the money where voters intended it to be.
The Michigan constitution is clear. The "school aid fund" can be used for higher education. The dems are trying to spin this, but the law is clear. In 1994, we voted to change the way we fund the schools, trading higher sales tax for lower property taxes. We did not vote to give all funds to K-12.

So......there is nothing "illegal" about diverting the funds to higher education. That's why the dems need a constitutional amendment to allocate the funds to K-12 only(i.e. more money for their pensions, and benefits). The governor isn't "stealing" money away from K-12. It seems they'll do anything to preserve their benefits......"for the children" ;) Nice try MEA.

I clearly remember voting for Proposal A and while the language reads education, I do not remember the intent being to subsidize colleges and universities, which we already pay an arm and a leg for.

Colleges have many other sources of funding. Why are you not holding college professors/instructors to the same standard as public school teachers? Not only are (public U's) relying on tax dollars, they raise tuition and charge exorbitant "material fees" and make a serious profit on books. Why are you not focusing on the double dipping going on there and giving a pass them? Most on this site seem very concerned about the proper spending of our tax dollars. Is it only K-12 schools and Universities get to double dip with tax dollars AND tuition? Where is their accountability? This potential crisis is not because we don't have the money it is because they are diverting the money elsewhere.

I am not an MEA member. I am not a member of any union. I do believe public school employees should contribute a bit more to their health insurance and pension. They do have golden policies that are not the standard anymore. I don't believe that they should also take a pay cut, teachers salaries alone do not seem that inflated to me. One or the other.

I don't think forcing it to happen by raiding the school aid fund is the way to do it. It will immediately and seriously impact the quality of education. Yes eventually it will be sorted out and a common ground found, but in the many years it takes for that to happen it will be too late for my kid. My son was encouraged to take an AP class next year. After getting recommendations from a few teachers and when it seemed set we receive a letter that basically said because of anticipated budget cuts they will no longer be offering that class and to pick alternates. I don't believe it is wait and see and that building principals are being very conservative in their potential offerings to next years students in anticipation of major cuts. I'm sure it is much more work for them later to re-assign students to new classes in the fall than now.
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
"I am not an MEA member. I am not a member of any union. I do believe public school employees should contribute a bit more to their health insurance and pension. They do have golden policies that are not the standard anymore. I don't believe that they should also take a pay cut, teachers salaries alone do not seem that inflated to me. One or the other."

+++++++++++++

A bit?

We don't have the money, and the K-12 bureaucracy can't expect the status quo to continue.

There are many who will have to share in the cuts, and the admins should be the first to be cut, but teachers can and should expect a major restructuring in how we pay them. A "bit" just isn't going to cut it.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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I don't think a pay cut would be necessary if they would all pay a greater portion of their health care and pensions. Also, Snyder's bill calls for the taxing of all pensions!! What a concept--public employees will have to pay a tax on their income( just like the rest of us poor schlepts who only have our 401k's)!!!

It's very interesting to note all the bills that the MEA is against!! Especially notable are HB4050 and HB4140! I love how the unions are so opposed to these bills but were jumping through hoops to support Obamacare!!! I guess its okay for the Feds to legislate and mandate health care for all us regular tax payers, but God forbid the state regulate it for teachers and other union workers!!! The double standard is incredulous!!!

The MEA is stressing out--a nice summary can be found here:

http://www.mymea.org/MEA_Bill_Tracker_041511.pdf
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LPS Reformer
Apr 17 2011, 11:21 AM
"I am not an MEA member. I am not a member of any union. I do believe public school employees should contribute a bit more to their health insurance and pension. They do have golden policies that are not the standard anymore. I don't believe that they should also take a pay cut, teachers salaries alone do not seem that inflated to me. One or the other."

+++++++++++++

A bit?

We don't have the money, and the K-12 bureaucracy can't expect the status quo to continue.

There are many who will have to share in the cuts, and the admins should be the first to be cut, but teachers can and should expect a major restructuring in how we pay them. A "bit" just isn't going to cut it.
LPS took some cuts and paid some toward their health care. I agree that maybe more is necessary, however do the cuts you propose make it worth it for them to continue teaching? There will be a point where teachers will feel undervalued and vilified enough that they will either do the bare minimum needed to keep their jobs and/or seek out other forms of employment.

I disagree that the money is not there. $1 billion of the school aid fund is being diverted to higher education. That does not need to happen.

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Hopeful
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Apr 17 2011, 01:11 PM
LPS Reformer
Apr 17 2011, 11:21 AM
"I am not an MEA member. I am not a member of any union. I do believe public school employees should contribute a bit more to their health insurance and pension. They do have golden policies that are not the standard anymore. I don't believe that they should also take a pay cut, teachers salaries alone do not seem that inflated to me. One or the other."

+++++++++++++

A bit?

We don't have the money, and the K-12 bureaucracy can't expect the status quo to continue.

There are many who will have to share in the cuts, and the admins should be the first to be cut, but teachers can and should expect a major restructuring in how we pay them. A "bit" just isn't going to cut it.
LPS took some cuts and paid some toward their health care. I agree that maybe more is necessary, however do the cuts you propose make it worth it for them to continue teaching? There will be a point where teachers will feel undervalued and vilified enough that they will either do the bare minimum needed to keep their jobs and/or seek out other forms of employment.

I disagree that the money is not there. $1 billion of the school aid fund is being diverted to higher education. That does not need to happen.

Teachers are not being asked to do anything that most, if not all, private sector employees have already had to endure in the form of pay cuts, benefit cuts, and increased costs for the benefits that are left.

Why do you think that teachers are so different and deserve so much more than everyone else? Not only have we all had to give things up, now you want us to pay more so that you can have the same or better than before. If this drives some teachers away from the profession, then these are not the teachers that we want in our classrooms.
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Hopeful
Apr 17 2011, 02:08 PM
134K
Apr 17 2011, 01:11 PM
LPS Reformer
Apr 17 2011, 11:21 AM
"I am not an MEA member. I am not a member of any union. I do believe public school employees should contribute a bit more to their health insurance and pension. They do have golden policies that are not the standard anymore. I don't believe that they should also take a pay cut, teachers salaries alone do not seem that inflated to me. One or the other."

+++++++++++++

A bit?

We don't have the money, and the K-12 bureaucracy can't expect the status quo to continue.

There are many who will have to share in the cuts, and the admins should be the first to be cut, but teachers can and should expect a major restructuring in how we pay them. A "bit" just isn't going to cut it.
LPS took some cuts and paid some toward their health care. I agree that maybe more is necessary, however do the cuts you propose make it worth it for them to continue teaching? There will be a point where teachers will feel undervalued and vilified enough that they will either do the bare minimum needed to keep their jobs and/or seek out other forms of employment.

I disagree that the money is not there. $1 billion of the school aid fund is being diverted to higher education. That does not need to happen.

Teachers are not being asked to do anything that most, if not all, private sector employees have already had to endure in the form of pay cuts, benefit cuts, and increased costs for the benefits that are left.

Why do you think that teachers are so different and deserve so much more than everyone else? Not only have we all had to give things up, now you want us to pay more so that you can have the same or better than before. If this drives some teachers away from the profession, then these are not the teachers that we want in our classrooms.
I don't believe I said that teachers should exempt from pay cuts. Livonia teachers have already taken some pay cuts as well increased their share of their insurance. I have said that my opinion is that perhaps it needs to be more.

I think it is unfair of Snyder to raid the school aid fund in favor of colleges. Have professors taken pay cuts, increased their share of their insurance? Isn't the governor simply throwing money at them? What makes it even more unfair is that the universities have other sources of revenue. K-12 schools do not. Additionally, when I voted for Proposal A the spirit of the bill was not to fund higher education but was presented as a way to more fairly fund K-12 education. That is what I voted for, and that is what I expect. Sneaking around the fact that the bill writers failed to specify K-12 is wrong. Please respond to that, not on what we have already agreed on.

While revamping public educators compensation may be necessary the process by which we go about it will affect my child's education NOW. In three years I won't have a kid in school any longer. I will still be paying an arm and a leg for college despite what the governor throws at them now AND his high school education will have been compromised.
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Hopeful
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I will have kids in school a lot longer than three years; you are not the only one that will be affected. The children, all of the children, will be the ones to suffer.

The "spirit" of Prop. a really doesn't matter, the is that it states that this funding is for "public education". It is not limited to k-12. Mat be that should be our next drive, to change it so that it does specify k-12.

In the meantime, paying a very small contribution of healthcare, and trying to maintain the pensions, will not work. More has to be done.
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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
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Apr 17 2011, 11:06 AM
Ava
Apr 15 2011, 09:12 AM
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Apr 15 2011, 08:31 AM
sooo...instead of illegally diverting money from K-12 education to colleges and universities (who have many sources of revenue) leave the money where voters intended it to be.
The Michigan constitution is clear. The "school aid fund" can be used for higher education. The dems are trying to spin this, but the law is clear. In 1994, we voted to change the way we fund the schools, trading higher sales tax for lower property taxes. We did not vote to give all funds to K-12.

So......there is nothing "illegal" about diverting the funds to higher education. That's why the dems need a constitutional amendment to allocate the funds to K-12 only(i.e. more money for their pensions, and benefits). The governor isn't "stealing" money away from K-12. It seems they'll do anything to preserve their benefits......"for the children" ;) Nice try MEA.

I clearly remember voting for Proposal A and while the language reads education, I do not remember the intent being to subsidize colleges and universities, which we already pay an arm and a leg for.

Colleges have many other sources of funding. Why are you not holding college professors/instructors to the same standard as public school teachers? Not only are (public U's) relying on tax dollars, they raise tuition and charge exorbitant "material fees" and make a serious profit on books. Why are you not focusing on the double dipping going on there and giving a pass them? Most on this site seem very concerned about the proper spending of our tax dollars. Is it only K-12 schools and Universities get to double dip with tax dollars AND tuition? Where is their accountability? This potential crisis is not because we don't have the money it is because they are diverting the money elsewhere.

I am not an MEA member. I am not a member of any union. I do believe public school employees should contribute a bit more to their health insurance and pension. They do have golden policies that are not the standard anymore. I don't believe that they should also take a pay cut, teachers salaries alone do not seem that inflated to me. One or the other.

I don't think forcing it to happen by raiding the school aid fund is the way to do it. It will immediately and seriously impact the quality of education. Yes eventually it will be sorted out and a common ground found, but in the many years it takes for that to happen it will be too late for my kid. My son was encouraged to take an AP class next year. After getting recommendations from a few teachers and when it seemed set we receive a letter that basically said because of anticipated budget cuts they will no longer be offering that class and to pick alternates. I don't believe it is wait and see and that building principals are being very conservative in their potential offerings to next years students in anticipation of major cuts. I'm sure it is much more work for them later to re-assign students to new classes in the fall than now.
http://www.mackinac.org/14985

Should Education Money Only be for K-12?

Although only once before has SAF money been used for colleges, no current law prohibits doing so again, K-12 spending-interest arguments notwithstanding. That one time was just last year when Gov. Jennifer Granholm used $195 million in SAF money for community colleges.

In addition, for many years SAF money has been spent on other non-K-12 education items. For example, more than $130 million dollars from the fund was earmarked last year for things like pre-kindergarten programs, adult education and the Michigan state library. Many school districts themselves spend part of their SAF money on higher education: Last year, K-12 districts sent more than $11 million to universities and community colleges for dual-enrolled students.

Ironically, after years of complaining that the SAF was “underfunded” and that Proposal A didn’t work, suddenly the public school establishment claims that it is “fully funded,” and is clinging tightly to the newly discovered “covenant” of Proposal A. Citizens (and courts) should look with great skepticism on arguments marshaled in support of this new and self-serving faith.



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