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Teachers Unions; August 3 Editorial
Topic Started: Aug 3 2010, 01:38 PM (1,246 Views)
Vanna White
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Posted: Aug. 3, 2010
LEONARD PITTS JR.
Teaching vs. teachers unions
BY LEONARD PITTS JR.

A year or two ago, I received this e-mail. The writer was upset with me for arguing that school principals should have the power to fire teachers who do not perform. As numerous educators have told me, union protections being what they are, dumping a teacher — even a bad one — is an almost impossible task.

My correspondent, a teacher, took issue with my desire to see that changed, noting that without those protections, she’d be at the mercy of some boss who decided one day to fire her.

In other words, she’d be just like the rest of us. The lady’s detachment from the reality most workers live with struck me as a telling clue as to why our education system frequently fails to educate. When you can’t get fired for doing bad work, what’s your impetus for doing good?

Many of us seem to be wondering the same thing.

Recently, for instance, Washington, D.C., schools chief Michelle Rhee, hired in 2007 to reform the system, fired 241 teachers, most of whom had performed poorly on a teacher evaluation system.

And in a speech Thursday before the National Urban League, President Barack Obama defended his Race to the Top education initiative, saying the goal isn’t simply to fire bad teachers, but to lower class sizes, reward excellence and demand accountability.

Earlier this year, officials in Rhode Island fired the entire faculty of a poorly performing school.

Finally, there’s 2002’s No Child Left Behind Act, which, while deeply flawed, at least represented an attempt to bring about critical change.

Americans seem to be rallying around a demand for education reform. Apparently, we’ve had enough of students failing schools and schools failing students. We know our kids are capable of better — and that in a competitive, hyper-connected world where China is rising and India aspiring, not delivering better is no longer an option.

Unfortunately, whenever anyone seeks to require better, they seem to find themselves at odds with the last people you’d expect: teachers. Or, more accurately, teachers unions.

No, I don’t hate teachers. I’ve been one myself. Moreover, I know that whatever I’ve achieved in life is due in large part to what I learned from Mr. Jacobs, Ms. Sobo, Mrs. Harrison, Sr. Tapanez and many others.

No, I don’t hate unions. I support the right of workers to organize and bargain collectively if they choose.

And no, I don’t think teachers bear sole responsibility for the failure of our kids to excel. You also have to blame those parents who are uninvolved or who live under the misapprehension that their little darlings can do no wrong, even when said darlings are swinging from the light fixtures in class or running an extortion ring behind the gym.

All that said, it is troubling to see teachers unions reflexively reject anything that smacks of accountability.

Rhee offered a significant raise and big bonuses for effective teachers in exchange for weakening tenure protections. She had to fight the union.

The White House put up $4 billion in grant money to spur innovation in schools. It had to fight the unions.

Those Rhode Island officials fired — and later rehired — faculty at a school where one child in two doesn’t graduate and only 7% of 11th graders are proficient in math. It had to fight the unions.

Enough. It is time teachers embraced accountability. Time parents, students and government did, too.

Because ultimately, what is at stake here are not grades, not jobs and not blame. No, this is an argument about the future — and whether this country will have one. The fact is, it cannot in a world where information is currency and American kids are broke.

People like my correspondent need to understand: There is a groundswell building here. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

LEONARD PITTS JR. is a columnist for the Miami Herald, 1 Herald Plaza, Miami, Fla. 33132. Write to him at lpitts@miamiherald.com.
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ppplivonia
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For the most part this editorial is ok, in a way. I would like to point out though that employees in the private sector do not have to answer to the general public i.e. taxpayers. When taxpayers get upset with something they get ugly. Just look around at what is going on right now. Teachers have become the enemy because the taxpayers have to pay their salaries and benefits. The school systems (teachers etc) are getting hate mail. In the private sector the employees are not at the mercy of the ugly and hateful public. Tenure is a way to safeguard the teachers from the whims of an angry and political public. Do I think the tenure rules safeguard crappy teachers? Yes but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. But, yes, sometimes innocent good teachers need to be protected! Tenure was born for a reason!
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Purple Haze
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ppplivonia
Aug 4 2010, 11:10 AM
For the most part this editorial is ok, in a way. I would like to point out though that employees in the private sector do not have to answer to the general public i.e. taxpayers. When taxpayers get upset with something they get ugly. Just look around at what is going on right now. Teachers have become the enemy because the taxpayers have to pay their salaries and benefits. The school systems (teachers etc) are getting hate mail. In the private sector the employees are not at the mercy of the ugly and hateful public. Tenure is a way to safeguard the teachers from the whims of an angry and political public. Do I think the tenure rules safeguard crappy teachers? Yes but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. But, yes, sometimes innocent good teachers need to be protected! Tenure was born for a reason!
perhaps I'm just a cup of joe short today...

I've been at the same job for 40 (yes, forty!) years, but am an at-will employee - why not teachers - someone?
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ppplivonia
Advanced Member
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Some history on tenure......It was born for a reason....

The start of the tenure movement paralleled similar labor struggles during the late 19th century. Just as steel and auto workers fought against unsafe working conditions and unlivable wages, teachers too demanded protection from parents and administrators who would try to dictate lesson plans or exclude controversial materials like Huck Finn from reading lists. In 1887, nearly 10,000 teachers from across the country met in Chicago for the first-ever conference of the National Educator's Association, now one of the country's most powerful teachers' unions. The topic of "teacher's tenure" led the agenda. By the turn of the century, tenure had become a hot-button issue that some politicians preferred to avoid. In 1900, the Democratic Party of New York blasted their rivals in the Times for taking up the issue, writing, "We deprecate the tendency manifested by the Republican party of dragging the public school system of the State into politics."

New Jersey became the first state to pass tenure legislation when, in 1910, it granted fair-dismissal rights to college professors. During the suffrage movement of the 1920s — when female teachers could be fired for getting married or getting pregnant or (gasp) wearing pants — such rights were extended to elementary and high school teachers as well. But where the tenure track for college professors can require a record of published research and probationary periods of up to 10 years, K-12 teachers can win tenure after working as little as two years in some states. And thanks to the rigid testing requirements put in place by the No Child Left Behind Act, the academic freedom that tenure was meant to protect has been severely curtailed......And despite more than a century of social progress, the need to protect teachers from the whims (or the tyranny) of the community remains as important as ever...

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1859505,00.html#ixzz0vjR9reCn



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1859505,00.html#ixzz0vjPoYbfv
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Vanna White
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It is truely a shame that the "community," who are ultimately the paying customers, are labled as "tyrants." There are certainly always some people (customers) who are really unreasonable, but they are a small minority. Just about every business deals with them on occasion. The majority of the public who would be involved in school matters are good people that simply want the best for their children and their community. In addition, is there really so little faith in the leadership of our school districts that teachers actually believe that without a union there would be dire consequences based on "whim" rather than facts? This is pretty sad.
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IDK
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Vanna White
Aug 5 2010, 09:14 AM
It is truely a shame that the "community," who are ultimately the paying customers, are labled as "tyrants." There are certainly always some people (customers) who are really unreasonable, but they are a small minority. Just about every business deals with them on occasion. The majority of the public who would be involved in school matters are good people that simply want the best for their children and their community. In addition, is there really so little faith in the leadership of our school districts that teachers actually believe that without a union there would be dire consequences based on "whim" rather than facts? This is pretty sad.
I have absolutely no faith in the leadership of our schools. I have experienced vandalism from parents at a personal cost of $300.00 to my car, I have had to be locked in a classroom to protect me from an irate parent that had previously physically attacked another teacher, I have endured verbal attacks from parents with no support or protection from my "leadership".
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Vanna White
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IDK
Aug 5 2010, 08:30 PM
Vanna White
Aug 5 2010, 09:14 AM
It is truely a shame that the "community," who are ultimately the paying customers, are labled as "tyrants." There are certainly always some people (customers) who are really unreasonable, but they are a small minority. Just about every business deals with them on occasion. The majority of the public who would be involved in school matters are good people that simply want the best for their children and their community. In addition, is there really so little faith in the leadership of our school districts that teachers actually believe that without a union there would be dire consequences based on "whim" rather than facts? This is pretty sad.
I have absolutely no faith in the leadership of our schools. I have experienced vandalism from parents at a personal cost of $300.00 to my car, I have had to be locked in a classroom to protect me from an irate parent that had previously physically attacked another teacher, I have endured verbal attacks from parents with no support or protection from my "leadership".
Physical safety of employees is important in any workplace, particularly those that are open to the general public. Threats and violence should be dealt with swiftly and effectively by leadership and, in some cases, the police. How exactly did the tenure system or the union help you with these unfortunate episodes?
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IDK
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Vanna White
Aug 5 2010, 09:39 PM
IDK
Aug 5 2010, 08:30 PM
Vanna White
Aug 5 2010, 09:14 AM
It is truely a shame that the "community," who are ultimately the paying customers, are labled as "tyrants." There are certainly always some people (customers) who are really unreasonable, but they are a small minority. Just about every business deals with them on occasion. The majority of the public who would be involved in school matters are good people that simply want the best for their children and their community. In addition, is there really so little faith in the leadership of our school districts that teachers actually believe that without a union there would be dire consequences based on "whim" rather than facts? This is pretty sad.
I have absolutely no faith in the leadership of our schools. I have experienced vandalism from parents at a personal cost of $300.00 to my car, I have had to be locked in a classroom to protect me from an irate parent that had previously physically attacked another teacher, I have endured verbal attacks from parents with no support or protection from my "leadership".
Physical safety of employees is important in any workplace, particularly those that are open to the general public. Threats and violence should be dealt with swiftly and effectively by leadership and, in some cases, the police. How exactly did the tenure system or the union help you with these unfortunate episodes?
You asked about faith in the leadership of our schools and these are examples where the leadership failed me just this year. There are many, many more stories that illustrate that teachers cannot rely on the "leaders". You mentioned that unreasonable customers are a small minority, they're not. While every year I usually have at least one wonderful supportive parent, those that verbally complain about everything are increasing in number and those that are dangerous are increasing also. I have children in LPS and I have stood at the sidelines during their sports games and listened as parents critique the schools and the teachers and it's always negative. Even those wonderful parents stand silent, and I don't blame them - it's easier than trying to defend schools or teachers in this current atmosphere where many feel there is nothing right about schools or teachers. I am open to change in tenure but without the union...
Who am I to count on?
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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
IDK
Aug 6 2010, 08:30 AM
Vanna White
Aug 5 2010, 09:39 PM
IDK
Aug 5 2010, 08:30 PM
Vanna White
Aug 5 2010, 09:14 AM
It is truely a shame that the "community," who are ultimately the paying customers, are labled as "tyrants." There are certainly always some people (customers) who are really unreasonable, but they are a small minority. Just about every business deals with them on occasion. The majority of the public who would be involved in school matters are good people that simply want the best for their children and their community. In addition, is there really so little faith in the leadership of our school districts that teachers actually believe that without a union there would be dire consequences based on "whim" rather than facts? This is pretty sad.
I have absolutely no faith in the leadership of our schools. I have experienced vandalism from parents at a personal cost of $300.00 to my car, I have had to be locked in a classroom to protect me from an irate parent that had previously physically attacked another teacher, I have endured verbal attacks from parents with no support or protection from my "leadership".
Physical safety of employees is important in any workplace, particularly those that are open to the general public. Threats and violence should be dealt with swiftly and effectively by leadership and, in some cases, the police. How exactly did the tenure system or the union help you with these unfortunate episodes?
You asked about faith in the leadership of our schools and these are examples where the leadership failed me just this year. There are many, many more stories that illustrate that teachers cannot rely on the "leaders". You mentioned that unreasonable customers are a small minority, they're not. While every year I usually have at least one wonderful supportive parent, those that verbally complain about everything are increasing in number and those that are dangerous are increasing also. I have children in LPS and I have stood at the sidelines during their sports games and listened as parents critique the schools and the teachers and it's always negative. Even those wonderful parents stand silent, and I don't blame them - it's easier than trying to defend schools or teachers in this current atmosphere where many feel there is nothing right about schools or teachers. I am open to change in tenure but without the union...
Who am I to count on?
Yeah, parents have a lot to complain about. That's why I don't support more money for public education. When I hear the schools are broke, and they want to raise taxes to funnel more money into this broken system, I just want to scream! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"


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ppplivonia
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Ava, I'm glad you put that video on this blog. It shows exactly what I'm talking about. Every night on the 'news' we hear about the 'horrible' schools, the 'horrible teachers', the 'horrible' system! When do we hear of the success stories coming out of our school systems? The kids that 'made it'? The college bound, the well educated, the academically talented, the 'good' kids who are 'good' because of a caring teacher or the school system in general? All we hear about are the rotten, greedy teachers and how the public has to pay for their child's education. Every night we hear some talking head whoop up the frenzied crowd (community) about all that is bad about the teachers and the school system. This is why there needs to be some protection for the teachers. I'm not saying that the 'existing' tenure laws are the answer, for there has been major abuses, but when your pay stub is one step away from a frenzied public, look out. Tell me where in the private sector do you hear a nightly talking head ranting about their product or service and the exorbitant cost of salaries and benefits to deliver this product or service? We don't! We just silently fork over more $$$ at the check-out lane. Why isn't Ford Motor (and the like) being criticized, nightly, because a freaking car cost $40,000!
Ava, to quote yourself....
<Yeah, parents have a lot to complain about. That's why I don't support more money for public education. When I hear the schools are broke, and they want to raise taxes to funnel more money into this broken system, I just want to scream! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! >
You sound exactly like you are part of the angry crowd; you have been 'handled' by the talking heads. Like I said... when your pay stub is one step away from an angry crowd, look-out...maybe we should start critiquing the private sectors salary, benefits, work load, etc and compare..hour by hour, dime by dime! And lets not forget the impact that one caring individual (teacher) has on your precious little one, day by day, year by year, life by life. Is this not worth a few $$$ more? What is a good price for your child's education? An education that can make or brake your child's future? I am really curious what price tag you put on your child's head.
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Hopeful
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ppplivonia
Aug 6 2010, 09:55 AM
Ava, I'm glad you put that video on this blog. It shows exactly what I'm talking about. Every night on the 'news' we hear about the 'horrible' schools, the 'horrible teachers', the 'horrible' system! When do we hear of the success stories coming out of our school systems? The kids that 'made it'? The college bound, the well educated, the academically talented, the 'good' kids who are 'good' because of a caring teacher or the school system in general? All we hear about are the rotten, greedy teachers and how the public has to pay for their child's education. Every night we hear some talking head whoop up the frenzied crowd (community) about all that is bad about the teachers and the school system. This is why there needs to be some protection for the teachers. I'm not saying that the 'existing' tenure laws are the answer, for there has been major abuses, but when your pay stub is one step away from a frenzied public, look out. Tell me where in the private sector do you hear a nightly talking head ranting about their product or service and the exorbitant cost of salaries and benefits to deliver this product or service? We don't! We just silently fork over more $$$ at the check-out lane. Why isn't Ford Motor (and the like) being criticized, nightly, because a freaking car cost $40,000!
Ava, to quote yourself....
<Yeah, parents have a lot to complain about. That's why I don't support more money for public education. When I hear the schools are broke, and they want to raise taxes to funnel more money into this broken system, I just want to scream! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! >
You sound exactly like you are part of the angry crowd; you have been 'handled' by the talking heads. Like I said... when your pay stub is one step away from an angry crowd, look-out...maybe we should start critiquing the private sectors salary, benefits, work load, etc and compare..hour by hour, dime by dime! And lets not forget the impact that one caring individual (teacher) has on your precious little one, day by day, year by year, life by life. Is this not worth a few $$$ more? What is a good price for your child's education? An education that can make or brake your child's future? I am really curious what price tag you put on your child's head.
Just remember the news/media are paid by their sponsers and advertisers. They are not paid to tell "nice" stories about the local schools ....... it doesn't pay!

In the last couple of years I have watched and heard the media criticize the entire automotive industry for the bad practices of the UAW and the car companies management. Do you think that this media coverage helped the average metro Detroit family, who just wanted to put food on the table and keep their house out of foreclosure? There are THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of autoworkers out of jobs, and out of their homes....... how may teachers have suffered during these tough economic times? I have not heard of ANY of those news stories! I only hear about the teachers that are complaining because they didn't get all three of their pay increases this year. The teachers and their unions run HUGE ad campaigns telling the world that they have made 'big concessions', but their concessions are NOTHING like the private sector. The public are beginning to see that the unions are driving education for teachers, but WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?? What have the unions done with the education dollars? When questioned, they all become VERY defensive, and things start becoming deceptive. Budgets aren't broken down into details, raises are given in small parts ( step increase, COLA, raise, tenure, etc.) so as not to be detected, and there is an increase in the request for more money. It doesn't seem like the best interests of the children are a factor, it's always about the teachers.

With your sort of thinking, the private schools will continue to have full classes. Just maybe there will be another opportunity for vouchers. It would be really nice if the public education system had to compete to maintain their students. Why is it that the private schools can provide an education, with a better cirriculum, for about 25-30% of the cost of public schools?

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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
ppplivonia
Aug 6 2010, 09:55 AM
Ava, I'm glad you put that video on this blog. It shows exactly what I'm talking about. Every night on the 'news' we hear about the 'horrible' schools, the 'horrible teachers', the 'horrible' system! When do we hear of the success stories coming out of our school systems? The kids that 'made it'? The college bound, the well educated, the academically talented, the 'good' kids who are 'good' because of a caring teacher or the school system in general? All we hear about are the rotten, greedy teachers and how the public has to pay for their child's education. Every night we hear some talking head whoop up the frenzied crowd (community) about all that is bad about the teachers and the school system. This is why there needs to be some protection for the teachers. I'm not saying that the 'existing' tenure laws are the answer, for there has been major abuses, but when your pay stub is one step away from a frenzied public, look out. Tell me where in the private sector do you hear a nightly talking head ranting about their product or service and the exorbitant cost of salaries and benefits to deliver this product or service? We don't! We just silently fork over more $$$ at the check-out lane. Why isn't Ford Motor (and the like) being criticized, nightly, because a freaking car cost $40,000!
Ava, to quote yourself....
<Yeah, parents have a lot to complain about. That's why I don't support more money for public education. When I hear the schools are broke, and they want to raise taxes to funnel more money into this broken system, I just want to scream! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! >
You sound exactly like you are part of the angry crowd; you have been 'handled' by the talking heads. Like I said... when your pay stub is one step away from an angry crowd, look-out...maybe we should start critiquing the private sectors salary, benefits, work load, etc and compare..hour by hour, dime by dime! And lets not forget the impact that one caring individual (teacher) has on your precious little one, day by day, year by year, life by life. Is this not worth a few $$$ more? What is a good price for your child's education? An education that can make or brake your child's future? I am really curious what price tag you put on your child's head.
I pay twice. $6,000 a year for private tuition because the public school isn't doing their job anymore. I also pay taxes to fund a system that isn't turning out kids who can read, write or compute. Those success stories you speak of are few and far between and most can be attributed to parents sendng their kids to tutoring centers or supplementation at home. The price tag to educate my kids in the public system is $27,000! My kids are learning so much more for only $6,000 per year! I care about their future! That's why I pulled them out of a failing system! A system that puts the needs of adults over children!
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Otis B.
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Not many people are talking about 'horrible' teachers. That is a myth being perpetuated by the unions.

People ARE talking about ineffective school districts and administrations, and how we need to dismantle the old structures that are holding back students and teachers from truly achieving. Yes, making it easier to remove ineffective teachers is a part of that equation, but only a part.

Of course, the unions are propagandizing that everyone is out to get ALL the teachers because they need to rally their membership. They have a vested interest in the old ways of doing things.

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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
Otis B.
Aug 6 2010, 11:21 AM
Not many people are talking about 'horrible' teachers. That is a myth being perpetuated by the unions.

People ARE talking about ineffective school districts and administrations, and how we need to dismantle the old structures that are holding back students and teachers from truly achieving. Yes, making it easier to remove ineffective teachers is a part of that equation, but only a part.

Of course, the unions are propagandizing that everyone is out to get ALL the teachers because they need to rally their membership. They have a vested interest in the old ways of doing things.

The MEA uses the media to get their message out as well. Poor teachers......"enough is enough".....it's all about the kids...blah, blah, blah. Lies, all lies. They just want to maintain their membership and the status quo! It's not about the kids!


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cecelia
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Ava
Aug 6 2010, 11:43 AM
Otis B.
Aug 6 2010, 11:21 AM
Not many people are talking about 'horrible' teachers. That is a myth being perpetuated by the unions.

People ARE talking about ineffective school districts and administrations, and how we need to dismantle the old structures that are holding back students and teachers from truly achieving. Yes, making it easier to remove ineffective teachers is a part of that equation, but only a part.

Of course, the unions are propagandizing that everyone is out to get ALL the teachers because they need to rally their membership. They have a vested interest in the old ways of doing things.

The MEA uses the media to get their message out as well. Poor teachers......"enough is enough".....it's all about the kids...blah, blah, blah. Lies, all lies. They just want to maintain their membership and the status quo! It's not about the kids!


With your sort of thinking, the private schools will continue to have full classes. Just maybe there will be another opportunity for vouchers. It would be really nice if the public education system had to compete to maintain their students. Why is it that the private schools can provide an education, with a better cirriculum, for about 25-30% of the cost of public schools?

They can do it because they do not pay a living wage. I have been a Catholic school teacher. I quit when I had my first child because day care for my baby was just about the same as my salary. My mother taught in a Catholic school after she was widowed with school age children. I am not exaggerating when I say that putting food on the table was a challenge. She was only able to keep our very modest home because of an inheritance she received from her parents which enabled her to pay off the mortgage. We all paid our own way through college.

Do you sincerely believe that you can get enough young people to go into debt to get an education for a hand to mouth life? You are going to ask how they get enough private school teachers now? Two of my relatives teach in Catholic schools. Their spouses are both successful professionals. They teach because they love to teach, just as I do, and because they love the Catholic church and see this as a contribution to something they believe in. I applaud what they do.
Edited by cecelia, Aug 6 2010, 12:32 PM.
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Otis B.
Veteran
Let the market decide what teachers salaries are worth -- just like the rest of us.

If salaries end up being that bad, less teachers will enter the profession, and the market will correct itself. If people value good teachers (they do) they will be willing to pay more for good schools, and salaries will rise.

It's not a complicated matter...or at least it shouldn't be.
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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
http://www.educationreport.org/pubs/mer/article.aspx?id=3429
School choice: Good for teachers

By Michael Corliss

The defeat of voucher proposals in Michigan and California last year owes much to the efforts of teachers' unions, who devoted considerable resources to opposing them—and to convincing many of their members that school choice is bad for educators.

However, dire union warnings that allowing parents more educational options would spell the end of public schools failed to convince the 1.2 million voters who voted for vouchers anyway. This is a strong constituency of people who believe greater school choice will actually improve education. And as for teachers, there are many reasons to believe that choice will benefit them, too. Let's look at the arguments.

Critics of school choice charge that allowing more students to leave the public schools will result in teachers being laid off or becoming unemployed. But a moment's thought reveals the flaw in this argument. Demand for teachers will not decrease just because more parents choose to send their children to different schools. And these different schools are likely to be in the same general area of the schools the students are leaving. So if jobs are lost at the old school as a result of a mass student exodus, the new school will still need to hire teachers to meet the demand.

There's even the possibility greater school choice would result in more jobs for teachers. How? As competition among schools intensifies, administrators will need to come up with ways to attract more students. One of the selling points many schools would likely employ is that of smaller class size. As more schools offered smaller classes as an incentive to parents, more teachers would be needed to keep the instructor-to-pupil ratios low.

Another claim of school choice critics is that choice will necessitate many changes that are disruptive to the educational process. True, but that's a good thing. Here's why: Teachers are used to adapting to new situations. They have a new batch of students every year, sometimes twice a year. They adapt to innovative teaching methods and ideas all the time. Sometimes this happens formally, with training and in-service, but more often it is done informally. A teacher picks up a new idea from another teacher, a magazine article, a graduate class, a parent, or a student. The "disruptions" caused by school choice will only enrich this "cross-fertilization" of ideas, to the benefit of students.

But how is all this change good for educators? First, it allows them to improve and do their jobs better. Second, most teachers will agree that new ideas and new situations are what make their jobs exciting and fun. Too many experienced teachers can tell stories of how they've been pressured, if not intimidated, into altering or abandoning something they believed in because of bureaucratic interference.

In a school that must compete for customers, that will change. Monopolies—such as the current system—can afford to ignore their employees' ideas, but enterprises facing stiff competition cannot. When school choice forces schools to listen to the teachers, that means teachers will be able to guide the changes that will inevitably occur. No longer will they be excluded from decisions about curriculum, teaching methods, allocation of resources, and the like. Competitive schools will have to abandon the "top-down" bureaucratic decision-making process and consult teachers, because teachers know the answers. Teachers are the ones who are in contact with the students and parents. They read the research and take the graduate courses. They share ideas and insights with each other. Schools that ignore the resource they have in teachers will do so at their peril, because there will be other, better schools willing to give teachers the respect they deserve in the pursuit of improved education.

Finally, critics argue that school choice will mean pay cuts for teachers. But that is an unlikely scenario for two reasons. First, the private sector almost always pays more than the public sector: That is the primary method businesses must employ to attract and keep the best people. Don't believe it? Just ask any public-sector lawyer, doctor, or other professional how much more he could make in private practice. Second, with school choice, money will follow the students. What this means is that parents who can afford several thousand dollars a year in tuition under a voucher or tax credit plan will suddenly be in the private school market. A lot of that new money will go to teachers, as competing schools scramble to attract and retain the best educators they can find. This isn't simply theory: At least one study, conducted in 1998 by researchers at Ohio University, found that teacher salaries go up as competition increases.

Teachers do not need to fear school choice. The evidence shows that it will benefit them as well as their students.

Mr. Corliss, a member of the Michigan Education Association, teaches at Stevenson High School in Livonia and is part of Teachers for Choice, a network of teachers advocating for greater parental choice in education. For more information, visit http://www.TeachersForChoice.org.
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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
Otis B.
Aug 6 2010, 12:40 PM
Let the market decide what teachers salaries are worth -- just like the rest of us.

If salaries end up being that bad, less teachers will enter the profession, and the market will correct itself. If people value good teachers (they do) they will be willing to pay more for good schools, and salaries will rise.

It's not a complicated matter...or at least it shouldn't be.
A Closing Plea

http://www.mackinac.org/4457
By Andrew J. Coulson

Perhaps this is too much to take in at once. It may be that the idea of moving to a market-based system of education seems too big a departure from the school system we have grown accustomed to.

But the system we have grown accustomed to has failed us. If we truly care about our children we must take a long, hard look at the underlying reasons for its failure. Our school system is not falling short academically because of the people who staff it or the curricula they teach. It is not falling short due to lack of funds or good ideas. It is falling short academically because it lacks a mechanism that consistently promotes, identifies, perpetuates and disseminates good ideas.

Our school system is falling short of our social goals because parents do not have a choice, a freedom they should have in the United States of America. By its very design, the prevalent system of public schooling forces a needless conformity on a vibrant, diverse and dynamic society.

We need to learn to live happily and harmoniously with one another. But people do not learn the value of liberty and mutual respect from a monolithic school apparatus that forces them to either accept the views of the dominant group or to impose their own views instead. We have enjoyed religious harmony in this nation not because we have forced all our citizens to attend an established Church, but precisely because we have not done so. The social conflicts that arise around public schooling do so precisely because public schooling is an establishment of education.

Yes, market-based education, coupled with financial assistance for low-income families, is a bold idea. But the time has come for bold ideas. At the very least, we owe it to our children to openly discuss the merits of reintroducing market incentives in education – not in the hostile fashion that has become the norm in recent reform debates, but with care, civility and wisdom.

Their future – our future – depends on it.
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Ava
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So what? Who cares?
cecelia
Aug 6 2010, 12:30 PM
Ava
Aug 6 2010, 11:43 AM
Otis B.
Aug 6 2010, 11:21 AM
Not many people are talking about 'horrible' teachers. That is a myth being perpetuated by the unions.

People ARE talking about ineffective school districts and administrations, and how we need to dismantle the old structures that are holding back students and teachers from truly achieving. Yes, making it easier to remove ineffective teachers is a part of that equation, but only a part.

Of course, the unions are propagandizing that everyone is out to get ALL the teachers because they need to rally their membership. They have a vested interest in the old ways of doing things.

The MEA uses the media to get their message out as well. Poor teachers......"enough is enough".....it's all about the kids...blah, blah, blah. Lies, all lies. They just want to maintain their membership and the status quo! It's not about the kids!


With your sort of thinking, the private schools will continue to have full classes. Just maybe there will be another opportunity for vouchers. It would be really nice if the public education system had to compete to maintain their students. Why is it that the private schools can provide an education, with a better cirriculum, for about 25-30% of the cost of public schools?

They can do it because they do not pay a living wage. I have been a Catholic school teacher. I quit when I had my first child because day care for my baby was just about the same as my salary. My mother taught in a Catholic school after she was widowed with school age children. I am not exaggerating when I say that putting food on the table was a challenge. She was only able to keep our very modest home because of an inheritance she received from her parents which enabled her to pay off the mortgage. We all paid our own way through college.

Do you sincerely believe that you can get enough young people to go into debt to get an education for a hand to mouth life? You are going to ask how they get enough private school teachers now? Two of my relatives teach in Catholic schools. Their spouses are both successful professionals. They teach because they love to teach, just as I do, and because they love the Catholic church and see this as a contribution to something they believe in. I applaud what they do.
What about the public school curriculum, Cecelia? With one third of Michigan's budget going toward public education, you would think the schools would offer a top-notch curriculum. Why is it that private schools are able to offer better curriculum? Where exactly are all those public dollars going? Could this be one of the reasons private schools outperform public schools? They are obviously doing something different because they are able to achieve better results with less money.
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cecelia
Advanced Member
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Ava
Aug 6 2010, 02:09 PM
cecelia
Aug 6 2010, 12:30 PM
Ava
Aug 6 2010, 11:43 AM
Otis B.
Aug 6 2010, 11:21 AM
Not many people are talking about 'horrible' teachers. That is a myth being perpetuated by the unions.

People ARE talking about ineffective school districts and administrations, and how we need to dismantle the old structures that are holding back students and teachers from truly achieving. Yes, making it easier to remove ineffective teachers is a part of that equation, but only a part.

Of course, the unions are propagandizing that everyone is out to get ALL the teachers because they need to rally their membership. They have a vested interest in the old ways of doing things.

The MEA uses the media to get their message out as well. Poor teachers......"enough is enough".....it's all about the kids...blah, blah, blah. Lies, all lies. They just want to maintain their membership and the status quo! It's not about the kids!


With your sort of thinking, the private schools will continue to have full classes. Just maybe there will be another opportunity for vouchers. It would be really nice if the public education system had to compete to maintain their students. Why is it that the private schools can provide an education, with a better cirriculum, for about 25-30% of the cost of public schools?

They can do it because they do not pay a living wage. I have been a Catholic school teacher. I quit when I had my first child because day care for my baby was just about the same as my salary. My mother taught in a Catholic school after she was widowed with school age children. I am not exaggerating when I say that putting food on the table was a challenge. She was only able to keep our very modest home because of an inheritance she received from her parents which enabled her to pay off the mortgage. We all paid our own way through college.

Do you sincerely believe that you can get enough young people to go into debt to get an education for a hand to mouth life? You are going to ask how they get enough private school teachers now? Two of my relatives teach in Catholic schools. Their spouses are both successful professionals. They teach because they love to teach, just as I do, and because they love the Catholic church and see this as a contribution to something they believe in. I applaud what they do.
What about the public school curriculum, Cecelia? With one third of Michigan's budget going toward public education, you would think the schools would offer a top-notch curriculum. Why is it that private schools are able to offer better curriculum? Where exactly are all those public dollars going? Could this be one of the reasons private schools outperform public schools? They are obviously doing something different because they are able to achieve better results with less money.
Sorry, but I don't see any real evidence of private schools offering a better curriculum. They offer one size fits all curriculum which is good for many children. Other children exist, however, and deserve an education which is appropriate for them. This is also mandated by law. Private schools are under no obligation to teach children with developmental or physical disabilities. These children are extremely expensive to teach. Think about this:
I have 28 students in my class. One teacher, one teacher salary.
Center classrooms have about 12 children. One teacher, one teacher salary. One paraprofessional, one paraprofessional salary.
Classrooms for the autistic have four or five students, one teacher, one teacher salary and usually two paraprofessionals with two paraprofessional salaries.
Are you surprised that public schools spend more money on salaries?
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