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Teacher Benefits Warranted Article
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Topic Started: Jul 9 2010, 12:50 PM (1,258 Views)
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gfr
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Jul 9 2010, 12:50 PM
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Detroit News Special Letter Teacher Benefits Warranted
Special Letter: Teacher benefits still warranted To those who think teacher benefits are too generous, I beg you to please come walk a day in my shoes ("Teachers' generous benefits under fire," June 2). As for our health benefits, I don't think there is another profession, aside from health care providers, that has the high exposure rate to every disease on the planet. When was the last time someone in your office threw up at your feet or coughed all over you while reading an article? We also have a huge population of children who travel internationally and are exposed to a number of diseases. Many parents send their children to school on Motrin to get them through the day, exposing teachers and the whole classroom to whatever illness they have. Did you know that teachers who had not attained their master's degree by the early 1990s are required to take graduate courses for the duration of their career? Last time I checked classes were about $1,000 apiece. The average teacher also is sinking about $1,000 a year of personal money into his or her classrooms and students. Advertisement
Teachers are not the problem in school funding. Lansing is the problem. Cutting the people students depend on defeats the goal of educating students for our future and impacts students in a negative manner. School funding is a state problem and cannot be solved on the backs of employees. I am a 22-year veteran of the Troy School District. I have my master's degree. Please compare my salary with a similar professional with an equal degree. I have no car allowance. I have no end-of-the-year bonus except for the smiles on the faces of my children and parents. I have no stock options except for the time and energy I have invested in my students. I am a proud educator and am tired of being thrown under the bus. Susan C. Zemmer , second-grade teacher, Troy Union Elementary, Troy
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Vanna White
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Jul 9 2010, 04:55 PM
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Health Care Workers, who are mentioned in general in this article, generally have much worse health care benefits than teachers. If we are going to base benefits on health risks at work, how about day care workers....they are holding a lot of sick kids all the time. What about other health risks...do firemen and police officers have lush health care benefits. What about miners or soldiers or others that risk death, injury and disease?
This person's argument is completely absurd. A great teacher can have a huge positive impact an many kids, but they are so very special that they should be elevated above other people, they are not more at risk, are not somehow better people than the rest of us and they do not deserve better benefits than the children they teach, people in other professions or anyone else.
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Deleted User
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Jul 9 2010, 07:09 PM
Post #3
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Deleted User
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I try hard to bring a balanced view on this forum. When I post articles, I look for different viewpoints. The Makinac Center articles always provide links and data to back up their stories. I simply can not find any others like them that give the the same in debth analysis from the teacher unions point of view. Please, if you find them, post them! We need that perspective. Unfortunately, all I find is usually an op-ed from Elaine Salters, or a letter like this. These are educators, and certainly capable of responding with well written and researched articles. Tugging on the tried and true emotional heart strings is wearing very thin.
If we talk about school funding, I would like to hear specific ways to address it from the teacher unions. Forget new taxes, because that will cause wide ranging statewide revolt. Remember, the funding will just be taken from one area, and some other family will suffer. Just ask the Clarenceville custodians.
We need to find answers, and stop playing the same old broken record.
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Sage
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Jul 9 2010, 08:02 PM
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Thanks for posting this letter, but I find the argument specious that if teachers were in the private sector they would make more based on credentials.
No, teachers would not make more in the private sector in this economy. Masters and even doctorate level workers in the private sector are not even collecting health benefits or pensions in this economy. Just ask around.
Public school teachers choose their professions, and with those come the salaries.
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Administrator
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Jul 9 2010, 09:21 PM
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Teachers and Taxpayers By Michael Van Beek | 2/8/2010 9:43 AM
The president of the Michigan Education Association stated on the radio recently that school employees have "given and given and given and given." Comparing teacher salaries to personal income demonstrates that the taxpayers who pay for teacher salaries have "given" a lot more.
The National Education Association just released its annual report that compares average teacher salaries throughout the country. For 2009-2010, Michigan ranks 8th. Here's the list:
State Average Teacher Salary New York $71,470 California $70,458 Alaska $69,864 New Jersey $68,703 Connecticut $68,412 Massachusetts $68,000 Maryland $65,902 Michigan $65,285
There's nothing necessarily wrong with Michigan teachers earning high salaries. In fact, even if they took home less pay, benefit packages for public employees are still on average much more generous than those in the private sector. Public school teachers are government employees and are paid with tax dollars, and therefore their wages are inextricably linked to the economic well-being of the state and the wealth of its citizens.
A standard measure of state wealth is per capita personal income. Here's a list from the Bureau of Economic Analysis of the same states above and their per capita personal income rank for 2008.
State Per Capita Personal Income Rank New York 4 California 9 Alaska 8 New Jersey 2 Connecticut 1 Massachusetts 3 Maryland 6 Michigan 37
Michigan has many difficult decisions ahead, especially if Lansing continues its failed economic policies. Based on the numbers above, one issue that must be addressed is whether Michigan can continue to pay teachers "rich state" wages while the taxpayers footing the bill have "poor state" incomes.
More fuel...
By ifonlyuknew | Feb. 28, 2010, 12:39 PM New Comment Reply
You have been complaining about teacher's health care, salaries, and anything teacher-related for a long time now--since your conception. Now you just have more fuel to add to your fire due to our state's economic situation. Have you ever compared a teacher's salary to any other occupation? Further, have you ever been in a classroom as a teacher? Yes, I am a teacher, and I think that after working as a special education teacher for nine and a half years straight out of a major university with a master of arts degree, I should be happy that I have a stable job. But don't tell me that I make too much money and that I should be living in the "real world." What do you think I make? Must I remind you that I am a taxpayer too? When I looked up my job salary online, specific to Michigan, I noticed that I receive pretty much less than everyone else with a degree, except a police officer. Lest we forgot, when times were good around here, teachers were not getting "bonuses" from our "companies" to squander on second homes. Maybe if I am privatized, I would make more money! Regarding health insurance, conservative think-tank, why would you want all public school employees to be in one large pool? That sounds like a government-led plan? Are you swinging to the left?
http://www.mackinac.org/12075
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Administrator
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Jul 9 2010, 10:18 PM
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?
by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters
Executive Summary
Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues.
This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates.
Among the key findings of this report:
According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005.
The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker.
Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week.
Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less.
Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more.
Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide.
The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour.
We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
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cecelia
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Jul 10 2010, 07:59 AM
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour?
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Vanna White
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Jul 10 2010, 10:24 AM
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour? The same is true for other professionals. I work at least 50 hours each week...usually closer to 60.
My guess is that they are backing out non-productive time, including lunches and other breaks, chatting with co-workers, personal calls, emails and internet time at work, etc.
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cecelia
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Jul 10 2010, 10:55 AM
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour?
The same is true for other professionals. I work at least 50 hours each week...usually closer to 60. My guess is that they are backing out non-productive time, including lunches and other breaks, chatting with co-workers, personal calls, emails and internet time at work, etc. You've got me there. I eat lunch almost every day. Let's subtract that from the hours worked. I also use the restroom occasionally, but not as much as I need to, since I can't leave the kids. As a matter of fact, the three sick days I took this year were all related to a really nasty UTI infection. I actually had to see a urologist who told me teachers have a very high rate of UTI infections from not being able to leave the classroom as needed. I don't take breaks. It is not built into our schedule. I do have "planning time" but that is more than filled with school work, returning phone calls and e-mails to parents, etc.
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Ava
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Jul 10 2010, 11:39 AM
Post #10
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So what? Who cares?
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour?
The same is true for other professionals. I work at least 50 hours each week...usually closer to 60. My guess is that they are backing out non-productive time, including lunches and other breaks, chatting with co-workers, personal calls, emails and internet time at work, etc.
You've got me there. I eat lunch almost every day. Let's subtract that from the hours worked. I also use the restroom occasionally, but not as much as I need to, since I can't leave the kids. As a matter of fact, the three sick days I took this year were all related to a really nasty UTI infection. I actually had to see a urologist who told me teachers have a very high rate of UTI infections from not being able to leave the classroom as needed. I don't take breaks. It is not built into our schedule. I do have "planning time" but that is more than filled with school work, returning phone calls and e-mails to parents, etc. You seem very unhappy:(
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cecelia
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Jul 10 2010, 12:59 PM
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour?
The same is true for other professionals. I work at least 50 hours each week...usually closer to 60. My guess is that they are backing out non-productive time, including lunches and other breaks, chatting with co-workers, personal calls, emails and internet time at work, etc.
You've got me there. I eat lunch almost every day. Let's subtract that from the hours worked. I also use the restroom occasionally, but not as much as I need to, since I can't leave the kids. As a matter of fact, the three sick days I took this year were all related to a really nasty UTI infection. I actually had to see a urologist who told me teachers have a very high rate of UTI infections from not being able to leave the classroom as needed. I don't take breaks. It is not built into our schedule. I do have "planning time" but that is more than filled with school work, returning phone calls and e-mails to parents, etc.
You seem very unhappy:( Actually, I like my job very much. I don't mind working long hours but I do hate it when people say I make x-amount an hour when they don't know how many hours I work. I think I make a good salary but I believe I earn it.
I do wish I was freer to use the restroom, though. It is turning into a health issue for me.
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Deleted User
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Jul 10 2010, 01:14 PM
Post #12
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Deleted User
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- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 07:59 AM
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour? You really have to click the link and read the study in depth. Whats posted here is just a small sample of the content. Its way too much to post here.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
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Administrator
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Jul 10 2010, 09:18 PM
Post #13
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It's probably best to start with the conclusion of this report.
Conclusion
Few education topics elicit as much passion as teacher pay. In any discussion of this issue, one is typically confronted with emotional testimony about personal experiences of long hours and meager pay for critically important work.
To be sure, there is some truth in these teacher responses. Many teachers undoubtedly do devote long hours, for what may seem far too little pay, as they engage in the essential work of educating future generations.
Yet the personal testimony of a number of teachers as to their poor compensation is no substitute for systematic data. If we want to have a productive policy discussion about the appropriate level of public school teacher pay, we have to start with high-quality and systematic data—not emotionally compelling personal stories.
As we stated at the beginning of this report, we offer no opinions on the proper level of pay for public school teachers. We are simply offering facts, almost entirely obtained from an agency of the federal government, that we believe ought to be included in any policy discussion about teacher pay. Before debating whether public teachers are gravely underpaid and deserve special subsidies such as tax breaks, we first need to have a clear understanding of what teachers are actually paid.
When considering teacher pay, policymakers should be aware that public school teachers, on average, are paid 36% more per-hour than the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. They should be aware that the higher relative pay for public school teachers exists in almost every metro area for which data are available. Finally, they should be aware that paying public school teachers more does not appear to be associated with higher student achievement.
Even given these facts, policymakers may well decide that the pay of public school teachers, relative to that of other workers, should be higher than it is now. We may decide that we are interested in increasing teacher pay regardless of the effect or lack of effect on student achievement. In the end, the pay of public employees is largely shaped by political judgments that incorporate subjective values and preferences. Because the level of public school teacher pay is set by governments with taxing power, the market has only a limited influence. The level of public school teacher pay is heavily shaped by whatever the political process decides that it should be. But those decisions are likely to be more responsible and beneficial for students and taxpayers if they are informed by the facts contained in this report.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Read the full report, then lets discuss the validity of it point to point.
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cecelia
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Jul 10 2010, 10:00 PM
Post #14
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- Jul 10 2010, 09:18 PM
It's probably best to start with the conclusion of this report. Conclusion
Few education topics elicit as much passion as teacher pay. In any discussion of this issue, one is typically confronted with emotional testimony about personal experiences of long hours and meager pay for critically important work.
To be sure, there is some truth in these teacher responses. Many teachers undoubtedly do devote long hours, for what may seem far too little pay, as they engage in the essential work of educating future generations.
Yet the personal testimony of a number of teachers as to their poor compensation is no substitute for systematic data. If we want to have a productive policy discussion about the appropriate level of public school teacher pay, we have to start with high-quality and systematic data—not emotionally compelling personal stories.
As we stated at the beginning of this report, we offer no opinions on the proper level of pay for public school teachers. We are simply offering facts, almost entirely obtained from an agency of the federal government, that we believe ought to be included in any policy discussion about teacher pay. Before debating whether public teachers are gravely underpaid and deserve special subsidies such as tax breaks, we first need to have a clear understanding of what teachers are actually paid.
When considering teacher pay, policymakers should be aware that public school teachers, on average, are paid 36% more per-hour than the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. They should be aware that the higher relative pay for public school teachers exists in almost every metro area for which data are available. Finally, they should be aware that paying public school teachers more does not appear to be associated with higher student achievement.
Even given these facts, policymakers may well decide that the pay of public school teachers, relative to that of other workers, should be higher than it is now. We may decide that we are interested in increasing teacher pay regardless of the effect or lack of effect on student achievement. In the end, the pay of public employees is largely shaped by political judgments that incorporate subjective values and preferences. Because the level of public school teacher pay is set by governments with taxing power, the market has only a limited influence. The level of public school teacher pay is heavily shaped by whatever the political process decides that it should be. But those decisions are likely to be more responsible and beneficial for students and taxpayers if they are informed by the facts contained in this report.http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htmRead the full report, then lets discuss the validity of it point to point. “Virtually all teachers worked from 30 to 40 hours per week, which included paid lunch and rest periods..." What is a "rest period"? I have taught in parochial and public schools for more than 20 years. I have taught in three different cities. I have never heard of a "rest period." Neither has my mother, my brother or my two sister-in-laws who are active or retired teachers with total experience of more than 100 years. Please come up with one teachers' contract anywhere that includes a "rest period" if you want me to take this resport seriously.
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Momof4
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Jul 10 2010, 10:17 PM
Post #15
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- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 12:59 PM
- Ava
- Jul 10 2010, 11:39 AM
- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 10:55 AM
- Vanna White
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- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 07:59 AM
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How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour?
The same is true for other professionals. I work at least 50 hours each week...usually closer to 60. My guess is that they are backing out non-productive time, including lunches and other breaks, chatting with co-workers, personal calls, emails and internet time at work, etc.
You've got me there. I eat lunch almost every day. Let's subtract that from the hours worked. I also use the restroom occasionally, but not as much as I need to, since I can't leave the kids. As a matter of fact, the three sick days I took this year were all related to a really nasty UTI infection. I actually had to see a urologist who told me teachers have a very high rate of UTI infections from not being able to leave the classroom as needed. I don't take breaks. It is not built into our schedule. I do have "planning time" but that is more than filled with school work, returning phone calls and e-mails to parents, etc.
You seem very unhappy:(
Actually, I like my job very much. I don't mind working long hours but I do hate it when people say I make x-amount an hour when they don't know how many hours I work. I think I make a good salary but I believe I earn it. I do wish I was freer to use the restroom, though. It is turning into a health issue for me. A restroom break is a must, especially when it becomes a medical issue. There should be someone in the office to come stand in your room for 5 minutes if you need to go use the bathroom. At my daughter's elementary, there was a person sitting in the office 80% of the time helping the secretary. There was also a lot of parent volunteers - I was one of them until I had to go back to work. This was an elementary school, though. I don't know what it is like in the high schools, or where you work. If nothing else, the school secretary should come down or at my daughter's school, the teacher next door would stand in the hall between the rooms - but it was only first grade.
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cecelia
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Jul 10 2010, 10:22 PM
Post #16
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- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 10:00 PM
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- Jul 10 2010, 09:18 PM
It's probably best to start with the conclusion of this report. Conclusion
Few education topics elicit as much passion as teacher pay. In any discussion of this issue, one is typically confronted with emotional testimony about personal experiences of long hours and meager pay for critically important work.
To be sure, there is some truth in these teacher responses. Many teachers undoubtedly do devote long hours, for what may seem far too little pay, as they engage in the essential work of educating future generations.
Yet the personal testimony of a number of teachers as to their poor compensation is no substitute for systematic data. If we want to have a productive policy discussion about the appropriate level of public school teacher pay, we have to start with high-quality and systematic data—not emotionally compelling personal stories.
As we stated at the beginning of this report, we offer no opinions on the proper level of pay for public school teachers. We are simply offering facts, almost entirely obtained from an agency of the federal government, that we believe ought to be included in any policy discussion about teacher pay. Before debating whether public teachers are gravely underpaid and deserve special subsidies such as tax breaks, we first need to have a clear understanding of what teachers are actually paid.
When considering teacher pay, policymakers should be aware that public school teachers, on average, are paid 36% more per-hour than the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. They should be aware that the higher relative pay for public school teachers exists in almost every metro area for which data are available. Finally, they should be aware that paying public school teachers more does not appear to be associated with higher student achievement.
Even given these facts, policymakers may well decide that the pay of public school teachers, relative to that of other workers, should be higher than it is now. We may decide that we are interested in increasing teacher pay regardless of the effect or lack of effect on student achievement. In the end, the pay of public employees is largely shaped by political judgments that incorporate subjective values and preferences. Because the level of public school teacher pay is set by governments with taxing power, the market has only a limited influence. The level of public school teacher pay is heavily shaped by whatever the political process decides that it should be. But those decisions are likely to be more responsible and beneficial for students and taxpayers if they are informed by the facts contained in this report.http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htmRead the full report, then lets discuss the validity of it point to point.
“Virtually all teachers worked from 30 to 40 hours per week, which included paid lunch and rest periods..." What is a "rest period"? I have taught in parochial and public schools for more than 20 years. I have taught in three different cities. I have never heard of a "rest period." Neither has my mother, my brother or my two sister-in-laws who are active or retired teachers with total experience of more than 100 years. Please come up with one teachers' contract anywhere that includes a "rest period" if you want me to take this resport seriously. "According to the BLS, full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working." My contract is for a "7 hour and 42 minute workday." This includes lunch. The lunch period for elementary school is 50 minutes but teachers do not get 50 free minutes as we teach up until the lunch period starts. We get the children ready for the cafeteria or recess and escort them there. We need to arrive to pick them up at the cafeteria or outside door two or three minutes early. At most I get 45 minutes lunch but let's say I get 42 minutes which would give me 35 hours paid. If I regularly arrive 30 minutes early and stay 60 minutes late and still take at least 30 minutes of work home this gives me 45 hours paid. Oh yes, I usually work two to three hours on the weekend. 47 hours does not equate to 36.5 hours under any of the math programs I have taught. Yes, lots of workers have unpaid overtime. Just don't say I work 36.5 hours when it is more like 47 hours and I won't say you work 40 hours when you work more like 50. I just want things accurate here.
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Administrator
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Jul 11 2010, 10:58 AM
Post #17
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Administrator
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U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)
http://www.bls.gov/home.htm
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L GAGA
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Jul 11 2010, 05:41 PM
Post #18
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- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 10:55 AM
- Vanna White
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- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 07:59 AM
- Administrator
- Jul 9 2010, 10:18 PM
How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?by Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters Executive Summary Education policy discussions often assume that public school teachers are poorly paid. Typically absent in these discussions about teacher pay, however, is any reference to systematic data on how much public school teachers are actually paid, especially relative to other occupations. Because discussions about teacher pay rarely reference these data, the policy debate on education reform has proceeded without a clear understanding of these issues. This report compiles information on the hourly pay of public school teachers nationally and in 66 metropolitan areas, as collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey. We also compare the reported hourly income of public school teachers with that of workers in similar professions, as defined by the BLS. This report goes on to use the BLS data to analyze whether there is a relationship between higher relative pay for public school teachers and higher student achievement as measured by high school graduation rates. Among the key findings of this report: According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005. The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker. Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week. Compared with public school teachers, editors and reporters earn 24% less; architects, 11% less; psychologists, 9% less; chemists, 5% less; mechanical engineers, 6% less; and economists, 1% less. Compared with public school teachers, airplane pilots earn 186% more; physicians, 80% more; lawyers, 49% more; nuclear engineers, 17% more; actuaries, 9% more; and physicists, 3% more. Public school teachers are paid 61% more per hour than private school teachers, on average nationwide. The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour. We find no evidence that average teacher pay relative to that of other white-collar or professional specialty workers is related to high school graduation rates in the metropolitan area. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm
Once again this article assumes that I work the contractual hours. I work about two hours a day beyond school hours. Usually I come early. Often I stay late. I almost always take work home. I put in at least three hours every weekend, sometimes more. I am not unusual. Since no one clocks me beyond the minimum how can any one say how much I am paid an hour?
The same is true for other professionals. I work at least 50 hours each week...usually closer to 60. My guess is that they are backing out non-productive time, including lunches and other breaks, chatting with co-workers, personal calls, emails and internet time at work, etc.
You've got me there. I eat lunch almost every day. Let's subtract that from the hours worked. I also use the restroom occasionally, but not as much as I need to, since I can't leave the kids. As a matter of fact, the three sick days I took this year were all related to a really nasty UTI infection. I actually had to see a urologist who told me teachers have a very high rate of UTI infections from not being able to leave the classroom as needed. I don't take breaks. It is not built into our schedule. I do have "planning time" but that is more than filled with school work, returning phone calls and e-mails to parents, etc. Re: Restroom....We would ask another teacher or aid to cover for us or as with the last classroom I had... I'd just use the lav in the the classroom if it was during class time. Hope this does it for you... :::?????
I asked my dear neighbor, a retired Plymouth Teacher, 3rd grade, and the above was her response in a email I sent her.
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Deleted User
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Jul 11 2010, 10:36 PM
Post #19
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Deleted User
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- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 10:22 PM
My contract is for a "7 hour and 42 minute workday." This includes lunch. The lunch period for elementary school is 50 minutes but teachers do not get 50 free minutes as we teach up until the lunch period starts. We get the children ready for the cafeteria or recess and escort them there. We need to arrive to pick them up at the cafeteria or outside door two or three minutes early. At most I get 45 minutes lunch but let's say I get 42 minutes which would give me 35 hours paid. If I regularly arrive 30 minutes early and stay 60 minutes late and still take at least 30 minutes of work home this gives me 45 hours paid. Oh yes, I usually work two to three hours on the weekend. 47 hours does not equate to 36.5 hours under any of the math programs I have taught. Yes, lots of workers have unpaid overtime. Just don't say I work 36.5 hours when it is more like 47 hours and I won't say you work 40 hours when you work more like 50. I just want things accurate here.
I am not sure exactly how the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics measures hours worked, but I am guessing a paid lunch hour has some effect on the data. If you are paid 8 hours including lunch, statistically you are working 7 hours.
A good question would be how many people get a paid lunch hour? Lets try to find some stats.
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cecelia
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Jul 12 2010, 09:49 AM
Post #20
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- Jimid
- Jul 11 2010, 10:36 PM
- cecelia
- Jul 10 2010, 10:22 PM
My contract is for a "7 hour and 42 minute workday." This includes lunch. The lunch period for elementary school is 50 minutes but teachers do not get 50 free minutes as we teach up until the lunch period starts. We get the children ready for the cafeteria or recess and escort them there. We need to arrive to pick them up at the cafeteria or outside door two or three minutes early. At most I get 45 minutes lunch but let's say I get 42 minutes which would give me 35 hours paid. If I regularly arrive 30 minutes early and stay 60 minutes late and still take at least 30 minutes of work home this gives me 45 hours paid. Oh yes, I usually work two to three hours on the weekend. 47 hours does not equate to 36.5 hours under any of the math programs I have taught. Yes, lots of workers have unpaid overtime. Just don't say I work 36.5 hours when it is more like 47 hours and I won't say you work 40 hours when you work more like 50. I just want things accurate here.
I am not sure exactly how the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics measures hours worked, but I am guessing a paid lunch hour has some effect on the data. If you are paid 8 hours including lunch, statistically you are working 7 hours. A good question would be how many people get a paid lunch hour? Lets try to find some stats. I think "paid" lunch is irrelevant to the teacher's pay issue because we aren't hourly workers. We are professionals who are paid salary for the total job. I feel I am paid by the school year and that means my job is make sure my students advance at least one grade level. That is why I work the hours I do. 47 actual work hours is fine with me because this is what it takes to do what I promised. Let's take a minute to discuss the reasoning behind the actual seven hours of work. I don't believe the purpose is to give the teachers a paid lunch. I believe it is because children, especially young ones, can only concentrate on school work a certain amount of time. As far as I am concerned, it is a developmental decision, not something worked up to give teachers a perk others do not receive. I know they have longer school days in other countries but I am not sure they have more time put into academics. I think the academic hours are similar. I believe the extra time is devoted to physical education, music, art, etc.
Edited by cecelia, Jul 12 2010, 09:51 AM.
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