Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Livonianeighbors.com. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. To ensure your privacy, never use personal information in your screen name or email address ("janedoe@hotmail.com" or "Billysmom" for example).

Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Elections in and around Livonia; Letters from LPS legal department
Topic Started: Apr 16 2010, 12:58 PM (4,750 Views)
Administrator
Administrator
Letters from LPS legal department.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Administrator
Administrator
Another
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Administrator
Administrator
I know many of you were wondering why your board shut down for the weekend a few months ago. While these letters did have some influence, they were in no way the only factor.

This forum is very, very effective when thoughtful posts are backed up with references and links. The core goal is to provide information, and debate the information. When your forum strays from that goal, it leads to political and personal bickering that takes away from very compelling facts.

Posting these letters during an election cycle certainly would have clouded reasonable debate regarding the merit and motivation of them.

Now that we are not in any particular political cycle, what do you think?

This topic is not limited to these letters, and should include healthy debate on elections in and around Livonia.

(Note. This topic was started in April, but only visible to the administrator. It would have been posted if any actual legal action were taken.)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Micki
I love teaching.
I can understand why **** would have been upset. I would have as well. Many times this site gets very personal. For many it is hard to divorce oneself from mean spirited remarks and it taints this site as one of trouble making rather than trying to find real solutions to benefit all. That may not be everyone's intent, of course.

Also, Jim I think it is a good reminder that we can't hide behind screen names. If somebody wants to find out our identity they can.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Do you think that LPS should be spending out tax dollars to go after Jim while laying off teachers because they don't have enough money? Let Lisa pay for her own lawyers.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Micki
I love teaching.
I am sorry it happened but yes I do believe that LPS should definitely spend our tax dollars when our constituents are slandering our school employees on a site that was designated as an attack on LPS.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Actually, this site was around long before Randy's Legacy.

But you seem to miss the point. Randy decided to use "*******" comment as an excuse to put pressure on Jim Dawes, and and surpress comments on LN just as Steve was up for reelection.

Do you think Jim is responsible for every comment made here?

Should Jim give up your name if a lawyer had a problem with something you said?

And, our tax dollars are not for Randy to spend for the betterment of whichever employee he favors. Do all employees get free legal services? Or just those willing to watch Randy's back. Did Margaret Flower get this same benefit?
Edited by Moderator1, Jul 31 2010, 12:19 PM.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cecelia
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
LPS Reformer
Jun 19 2010, 01:16 PM
Actually, this site was around long before Randy's Legacy.

But you seem to miss the point. Randy decided to use "*******" comment as an excuse to put pressure on Jim Dawes, and and surpress comments on LN just as Steve was up for reelection.

Do you think Jim is responsible for every comment made here?

Should Jim give up your name if a lawyer had a problem with something you said?

And, our tax dollars are not for Randy to spend for the betterment of whichever employee he favors. Do all employees get free legal services? Or just those willing to watch Randy's back. Did Margaret Flower get this same benefit?
No, LPS reformer, I think you miss the point. ****** did something illegal.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
injuneer
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Im not sure what kind of work you do LPSReformer but its fairly standard practice for corporate lawyers to represent employees along with the company when they are collectively dealing with some sort of action, I suspect yours would do the same. Just because tax dollars are involved doesnt change the dynamics of that situation.

I dont believe the site has an obligation to give up any information on users at the demand of a lawyer but it doesnt sound like they did. However if the lawyers want to get a court order for that information they are welcome to and I suspect the site would oblige. The person running this site is doing so at their expense, not yours or mine and I doubt they want to rack up legal bills trying to fight for something as trivial. If a poster on here wants their information to be kept private then they should either not post or certainly not write things that are illegal.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mrs.M
Veteran
Micki
Jun 19 2010, 11:10 AM
I am sorry it happened but yes I do believe that LPS should definitely spend our tax dollars when our constituents are slandering our school employees on a site that was designated as an attack on LPS.
I must be misreading or misunderstanding your post, you have thought of this forum/site as being designated as an attack on LPS.

The forum is intended to be an attack on LPS?
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Momof4
Member Avatar
Veteran
Mrs.M
Jun 19 2010, 11:10 PM
Micki
Jun 19 2010, 11:10 AM
I am sorry it happened but yes I do believe that LPS should definitely spend our tax dollars when our constituents are slandering our school employees on a site that was designated as an attack on LPS.
I must be misreading or misunderstanding your post, you have thought of this forum/site as being designated as an attack on LPS.

The forum is intended to be an attack on LPS?
I thought this site was designed as a way for the neighbors of Hull School to pass information along and talk about what was happening. It morphed into a site that puts out a myriad of information about many subjects, where all people of Livonia are free to state their opinion.

The fact that LPS is talked about and, yes, often not positively, is a sign that not all people are willing to go with the flow of the bad choices LPS makes.

Was what "******" wrote illegal, yes. STUPID, yes..yes..yes. They deserve to be banned, maybe even have LPS threaten them. But who hasn't said, wrote, etc., something stupid, reckless and moronic in their lifetime? - Maybe even about a public employee. My assumption is that "******" was trying to be funny - and they missed the mark. The district has gotten the apology they wanted and the site has posted rules and guidelines. Enough is enough. This is a wake-up call for everyone to think before they post or speak about a public employee. I have also seen many remarks on hometownlife.com that are close to slander, but happen to be by supporters...

This site is still a great source of information and, hopefully, will continue to be. A few bad choices have, unfortunately, branded it trouble and that is not the intention at all of the site.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
cecelia
Jun 19 2010, 07:48 PM
LPS Reformer
Jun 19 2010, 01:16 PM
Actually, this site was around long before Randy's Legacy.

But you seem to miss the point. Randy decided to use "*******" comment as an excuse to put pressure on Jim Dawes, and and surpress comments on LN just as Steve was up for reelection.

Do you think Jim is responsible for every comment made here?

Should Jim give up your name if a lawyer had a problem with something you said?

And, our tax dollars are not for Randy to spend for the betterment of whichever employee he favors. Do all employees get free legal services? Or just those willing to watch Randy's back. Did Margaret Flower get this same benefit?
No, LPS reformer, I think you miss the point. ***** did something illegal.
The point is that Jim Dawes did nothing illegal. Yet, he was the one they went after.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Administrator
Administrator
Momof4
Jun 20 2010, 09:18 AM
Mrs.M
Jun 19 2010, 11:10 PM
Micki
Jun 19 2010, 11:10 AM
I am sorry it happened but yes I do believe that LPS should definitely spend our tax dollars when our constituents are slandering our school employees on a site that was designated as an attack on LPS.
I must be misreading or misunderstanding your post, you have thought of this forum/site as being designated as an attack on LPS.

The forum is intended to be an attack on LPS?
I thought this site was designed as a way for the neighbors of Hull School to pass information along and talk about what was happening. It morphed into a site that puts out a myriad of information about many subjects, where all people of Livonia are free to state their opinion.

The fact that LPS is talked about and, yes, often not positively, is a sign that not all people are willing to go with the flow of the bad choices LPS makes.

Was what "******" wrote illegal, yes. STUPID, yes..yes..yes. They deserve to be banned, maybe even have LPS threaten them. But who hasn't said, wrote, etc., something stupid, reckless and moronic in their lifetime? - Maybe even about a public employee. My assumption is that "Snoopy" was trying to be funny - and they missed the mark. The district has gotten the apology they wanted and the site has posted rules and guidelines. Enough is enough. This is a wake-up call for everyone to think before they post or speak about a public employee. I have also seen many remarks on hometownlife.com that are close to slander, but happen to be by supporters...

This site is still a great source of information and, hopefully, will continue to be. A few back choices have, unfortunately, branded it trouble and that is not the intention at all of the site.
Exactly. This site has a lot to offer. But it was getting increasingly hostile. I posted these letters so everyone would understand the limits. This board will not protect those who choose to act irresponsibly. LPS has not taken any legal action to obtain any information, and I don't suspect they will. I consider the matter closed.

Fair warning. In the future, LPS or any other legal entity will not have to get a court order to obtain information on irresponsible posters. I will give it to them (the only information I have is an IP address and email. read this). You will be held responsible.

Lets make sure we keep this valuable asset. Information may not be as exciting as controversy, but is far more compelling in the end. This is a free site, and it makes no difference how many people read and post. It's a community forum, and try to remember some of the people you talk about are your neighbors. Respect that fact.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
uh-oh
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
cecelia
Jun 19 2010, 07:48 PM
LPS Reformer
Jun 19 2010, 01:16 PM
Actually, this site was around long before Randy's Legacy.

But you seem to miss the point. Randy decided to use "*******" comment as an excuse to put pressure on Jim Dawes, and and surpress comments on LN just as Steve was up for reelection.

Do you think Jim is responsible for every comment made here?

Should Jim give up your name if a lawyer had a problem with something you said?

And, our tax dollars are not for Randy to spend for the betterment of whichever employee he favors. Do all employees get free legal services? Or just those willing to watch Randy's back. Did Margaret Flower get this same benefit?
No, LPS reformer, I think you miss the point. ****** did something illegal.
It's not illegal cuz Keller Thoma says so. That would have to be proven in court. I don't think Jim is obligated to give up any ones identity either unless a court of law requires him to.

So, did you Jim? What was in the letter you wrote back in response to their second letter to you?

Are these public employees 'off limits' now? Shall we just sit back and let them continue to ruin the district without any comment or commentary? Where is the line drawn at?

Personally, I think ******* comment was just a joke. LIEpa decided to take it to the next level, in an effort to flex his superintendent muscle.

I respect what you are saying Jim(and certainly wouldn't want you spending your money on a lawsuit), but I don't think they should be rewarded for exercising their egos either.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Administrator
Administrator
I did not respond, and didn't feel a need to. I will give up information only by court order in this case, because it is the first time this happened on this forum. I will take it as far as needed. But I see no point in it for LPS or this board. The point has been made, and we are all clear on the parameters.

In my opinion, there was a fair amount of political motivation behind the letters. They came before an election, and I believe there was an all out effort to get rid of Steve King. And getting rid of Livonia Neighbors would have been nice also for some. Take that as a positive. When a legal firm for a 150 million dollar a year entity comes after a little local forum like this, you people are making a difference.

But this is not CNN, or Fox News. It is very local. When is the last time you saw President Obama at the local Kroger? The same rules can't apply here.

When people are at each others throats with clinched fists and closed minds, the facts are always clouded. Facts and information are the very last thing politicians want the voting public involved in :) . I think it is way better to politely talk to people you see around town, than to mutter an obscenity under your breath and walk away :o . Come on, I know many of you have probably done that ;) .

Sites like this are routinely dismissed as radical, and to be ignored, because of situations like this. This site is not ignored, and lets keep providing information to fuel discussion. It is working. Slowly, but surely.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
In my opinion, there was a fair amount of political motivation behind the letters. They came before an election, and I believe there was an all out effort to get rid of Steve King. And getting rid of Livonia Neighbors would have been nice also for some. Take that as a positive. When a legal firm for a 150 million dollar a year entity comes after a little local forum like this, you people are making a difference.

And is it any less illegal for LPS to use tax payer dollars to effect an election? That is not just a civil matter matter, it's a criminal one.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Administrator
Administrator
In my opinion, it happens all the time. Remember the raid on the print shop during the annexation attempt? That was really outrageous. This is pretty small stuff in comparison.

Anti-annexation group says Livonia mayor violated civil rights
By Pam Fleming • STAFF WRITER • July 24, 2008

A citizens group fighting the annexation of the former Northville Regional Psychiatric Hospital property to Livonia, said Livonia Mayor Jack Kirksey recently used police illegally and violated their civil rights.


The citizens made the accusations after Kirksey reportedly ordered Livonia police officers to serve a search warrant last week to the owner of Print Masters in Madison Heights, where an anti-annexation flier recently mailed to Livonia residents was printed.

Jim Gerds, one of the print shop owners, told the Detroit Free Press on Tuesday that officers came to his shop last Thursday with a search warrant.

"They wanted all the information for a political piece that we printed," Gerds said. "This is the first time I've been searched for a piece."

Ballot question on Aug. 5
Livonia residents and seven residents who live on the property will vote on a ballot question in the Aug. 5 primary election on whether to annex the property or not to Livonia.

Local developer, REIS, a partnership between Real Estate Interests Group and Schostak Brothers and Company, is attempting to annex the property on Seven Mile Road between Haggerty and Northville roads to Livonia because township leaders imposed too many conditions on a plan they approved last year for the property.

The developer then moved eight residents onto the property saying they were providing security for the 414 acres and then had them register to vote.

Seven of the eight residents then filed a petition with Wayne County to have the land annexed to Livonia, which is legal per state law.

However, the township and the developer are still working to try to come to an agreement on a development for the property so that the land can remain in Northville Township.

If an agreement is reached by Aug. 4, the results of the ballot question will be null and void.

Political satire?
"Mayor Kirksey used his police department to raid the offices of a print shop," said Laurie Marrs, chair of Taxpayers for Responsible Development, a newly formed 501(c)4 nonprofit organization providing information to residents about the August 5 annexation vote.

"Mayor Kirksey is using thug tactics to squash any opposition to his attempt to annex the Northville property. We are shocked and angered that he would use the police to attempt to suppress our first amendment rights to oppose this ballot question. How can Mayor Kirksey stuff the Bill of Rights into a shredder to win his annexation battle?"

Although Kirksey has failed to find the humor in the piece, Marrs told the Detroit Free Press that the flier was intended as "political satire." The citizens group said Kirksey is leading the Livonia effort to annex the site of the former Northville Psychiatric Hospital and that he publicly attacked the mailer issued by Taxpayers for Responsible Development two weeks ago.

The mailer suggests that Livonia residents will realize a $75 million tax increase if the vote on the annexation ballot question passes.

"This mailer was obviously political, fully protected by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution," Marrs said. "Mayor Kirksey's police department manufactured a charge to justify the issuance of a search warrant for the Madison Heights print shop we used to print that mailer.

"He then marched seven Livonia police detectives into that shop to execute that warrant. This is one of the most frightening and disgusting tactics I could ever imagine in the context of a political campaign."

Taxpayers for Responsible Development is now being represented by attorney David W. Jones of the law firm of Allen Brothers. Jones sent a letter to Livonia Chief of Police Robert Stevenson notifying him of his department's violation of the group's federal and state civil rights.

Jones wrote in his letter to Stevenson, "Be advised that we will be seeking a federal injunction against the department and the City of Livonia and its City Council for its actions taken relative to this action as well as the election should your efforts continue."

"Mayor Kirksey is using the illegal search warrant to go on a political fishing expedition," Marrs said. "It is appalling that Kirksey would divert police resources away from the victims of real crime in Livonia to enforce his will. This kind of strong-arm, thug tactic is the worst kind of political intimidation I can imagine. I want the residents of Livonia and Northville Township to know that we will not be intimidated by Mayor Kirksey's actions."

Marrs said she found it odd that Kirksey would have officers drive 30 miles to investigate a print shop.

"I think those detectives could better serve the residents of Livonia by staying in their community and solving real crimes."

Kirksey said only five plainclothes officers went to the print shop, and only two were supposed to go.

"It was a breakdown in communication, and I have expressed my displeasure to the deputy chief over the matter," Kirksey said. "The visit to the print shop was supposed to be made in between assignments to see who ordered the piece, and it was to be given low priority." He said four officers went to the shop, one joined later to bring paperwork left in Livonia, and a Madison Heights officer also showed up.

He believes the real issue is the fact that Taxpayers for Responsible Development may have violated the criminal code and the postal code by using Livonia City Hall as the return address on the piece when it, in fact, it was not mailed from there. He also said that detectives have learned that the job was paid for with a certified check, which he believes was an attempt to hide who paid for the flier. He also noted that the organization did not register as an organization prior to the mailing, which was another violation of the law.

The city of Livonia is preparing to obtain court approval to find out from Fifth Third Bank who purchased the certified check, according to the Detroit Free Press.

"Half of our life recently is being on the phone dispelling the myths that this mailing produced," Kirksey said. "I'm amazed at the confusion this has caused." He said, for example, that the piece leads voters to believe that a trailer park will be placed on the former hospital property if it is annexed to Livonia. "In Livonia's 58 years as a city, it's never had a trailer park, and we don't plan to have one on this property," Kirksey said. The mayor said even after he tells them that their taxes won't increase if the land is annexed to Livonia, residents still believe their taxes are going to increase.

"The piece has done what it was intended to do and that is to confuse voters," he said. "And if people are confused about an issue, they'll usually vote no."

Resolution at city council
On Monday night, Livonia City Council members also approved a resolution supporting the annexation of the property to their city. REIS has said that the annexation will produce a development that will lead to 4,000 construction jobs and 4,000 permanent jobs in the area in the future. The resolution stated that the annexation question was put before voters through no fault, urging, or desire of city official and in fact those officials recommended that the issue be settled by the developers and the Township of Northville so there would be no need for an election.

It also stated that the annexation will take place at not cost increase to taxpayers of Livonia but would instead generate approximately 2.5 million of tax dollars per year when completed (which would be extremely beneficial to the City of Livonia during the time of economic uncertainty and declining state revenues).

Fundraiser slated Monday
Members of the Stop the Annexation grass-roots organization will have a fundraiser from 5-8 p.m. Monday at Buddy's Pizza at the corner of Plymouth and Farmington roads. The $20-for-adults and $10-for-chidren donation will include all-you-can-eat pizza, salad and nonalcoholic beverages The group also plans to attend Monday's Livonia City Council study session at 8 p.m.

For more information, go to stopannexation.com.

pfleming@gannett.com

(248) 349-1700, ext. 105

http://s6.zetaboards.com/Livonianeighbors/search/?c=1&q=print+shop+raid&type=post&sort=desc&forum%5B%5D=-1&s_m=3&s_d=3&s_y=2007&e_m=6&e_d=20&e_y=2010
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
L GAGA
Member
[ *  * ]
Just maybe Lucy or Linus could help Keller Thoma out ?
Sorry.....Just couldn't resist :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
L GAGA
Jun 20 2010, 08:12 PM
Just maybe Lucy or Linus could help Keller Thoma out ?
Sorry.....Just couldn't resist :)
Posted Image
Sounds like the LPS central office people could use a little help. ;) ;)
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
By the way, if what ****** said is illegal, then how does "South Park" stay in business?

Not to say the comment wasn't Goofy, but if this is the kind of intellectual firepower that Randy can bring to bear, I have to think Snoopy isn't exactly quaking in her boots.

Let's remember, there is a big difference between "in bad taste", and illegal.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Livonia Neighbors Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply