Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Livonianeighbors.com. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. To ensure your privacy, never use personal information in your screen name or email address ("janedoe@hotmail.com" or "Billysmom" for example).

Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Health Care Healthy?
Topic Started: Aug 15 2009, 02:13 PM (708 Views)
Deleted User
Deleted User

McCotter: Health care plan would kill jobs
By Ken Abramczyk • OBSERVER STAFF WRITER • August 2, 2009


As Congress wrestles with health care reform, House Republicans are waiting to see what emerges from the Democratic majority, according to U.S. Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Livonia.

But he doesn't want Congress to race through the proposals, either.

Like many of his Republican colleagues, McCotter disagrees with President Barack Obama's health care plan.

“We're waiting to see what the Blue Dogs (fiscally conservative Democrats) do,” McCotter said Wednesday.

McCotter believes the president's plan will lead to rationing of health care services. Should government become more involved in health insurance, McCotter believes jobs will be lost in the health care industry from government entering the marketplace.

Republicans would like to see insurance companies have the ability to sell health insurance across state lines, McCotter said.

“Increasing the supply (of health care) will mean more jobs” in the industry, and will assist with filling the demand for an aging population as baby boomers retire, McCotter said.

Republicans also want liability reform and patient-centered wellness.

Wayne County has the second highest cost in the country for medical liability malpractice, McCotter said. “We have OB-GYN's who are leaving their practices. There has to be tort reform, or we will continue to see defensive medicine.”

The Republican plan lets small businesses band together to purchase health care for employees at a more affordable price, McCotter said. He'd also like to see Medicare and Medicaid improved by rooting out waste and fraud.

In the end, McCotter expects any health care package to move from the center of legislative moderates into the liberal and conservative camps.

McCotter said his constituents want something done with health care. “A vast majority want us to do it right and prefer to see us take our time,” he said. “People are concerned with the costs of health care, but they are generally happy with the quality of it. And they want to see something for people who don't have it.”

kabramcz@hometownlife.com|(313) 222-2591


Health care bill is socialized medicine


I believe the health care bill is an attempt to shove socialized medicine down the throats of the American public under the disguise of health care reform.

I do believe health care reform is needed, but there are a number of issues that are not being addressed. One is the high cost of practicing defensive medicine. Without liability reform, doctors and hospitals incur high liability insurance costs and are forced to perform many unnecessary tests in order to try to protect themselves from lawsuits. It is not surprising that the Democrats would not include this in their bill since a high majority of them are attorneys.

It sounds like McCotter has actually read the bill and has at least some understanding of what it says. This is in sharp contrast to John Conyers, who is for the bill but states publicly that he doesn't have time to read it. The video clip of him making this statement can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACbwND52rrw.

It is very unsettling that some of our elected officials are willing to vote for (and commit the American public to) something that they haven't read and don't understand.

I just wonder how many people actually understand what the ramifications of passing this bill really are.

The link for the health care bill is:

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Fred Pappalardo
Livonia


Health care bill not ‘one size fits all'

I have just finished reading your article about Rep. McCotter's position on government health care.

This piece of legislation is foolishness run amok. Based on the information that more than 85 percent of Americans are covered with insurance in various forms, and that a large portion of the uninsured are “self insured” or not legal U.S. citizens, why must we destroy the basic fabric of health care in the U.S.? While I am not against charity, do these few have so much political clout that everyone else must be knocked down to some low common denominator where we all will be dissatisfied

Our Declaration of Independence includes the phrase “all men are created equal ... with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” The first eight amendments to the Constitution reinforce these objectives. The phrase “men are created equal” refers to the fact that all citizens are of the humanoid species, not that every person must be identical in achieving their pursuit of happiness. If there are no differences in our lives, there would be no incentive to work towards advancing ourselves. As we all are created at least slightly different we seek different levels of satisfaction in our accomplishments, our living conditions and how we exert ourselves in our work efforts.


Health care is likewise not equal. Each one of us has our own health care challenge and there is not a “one size fits all” health care service that will be able to take care of everyone. Just look at the people in Congress who are pushing to pass this unbelievably complicated health care bill. They have their own “special privileged health care service” that the rest of us must pay form. While the Constitution (Article 1, Section 6) grants that representatives and senators are to be compensated for their service while in office, it does not grant them special privileged status apart from the rest of the country's citizens.

Differences are everywhere. We choose different foods, live in different homes and neighborhoods, buy car insurance from any number of companies with different levels of coverage but we all still have the right to pursue a different level of happiness. All of the things we want require making choices based on the funds we can spend. This is the motivator for humans to go out and work to improve their lot.

As with most problems, there are usually several possible solutions. The competition between them is settled based on several things including the cost, effectiveness and possibly profit. Let's keep the competition path open. The specific areas that need repair or assistance should be addressed individually and then thoroughly vetted with public reviews before becoming law. I am so amazed that our country grew from 13 states and a few thousand people into a great nation without having an overpowering government making what our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents considered personal business. Let's not destroy what our forefathers put together for our benefit for the sake of a few who do not understand the concept of a democratic republic.



Arthur Naujock
Livonia

Quote Post Goto Top
 
Momof4
Member Avatar
Veteran
From an email I received. This congressman thinks that if it's good enough for America, it should be good enough for the people voting on it. I have to agree.

"Congressman John Fleming (Louisiana physician) has proposed an amendment that would require congressmen and senators to take the same healthcare plan they force on us (under proposed legislation they are curiously exempt). Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go on his Website and sign his petition (very simple - just first, last and email).

I have immediately done just that at: http://fleming.house.gov/ ;. Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!

If Congress forces this on the American people, the Congressmen should have to accept the same level of health care for themselves and their families."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Extra Olives
Veteran
The health care plan will not be "forced" on anyone. If you have a good plan now and want to keep it, you may do so. What this reform does do, however, is give choices to the millions of people out there who do not have insurance, are underinsured or who are stuck with 1000K monthly premiums.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
uh-oh
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Extra Olives
Aug 17 2009, 12:04 PM
The health care plan will not be "forced" on anyone. If you have a good plan now and want to keep it, you may do so. What this reform does do, however, is give choices to the millions of people out there who do not have insurance, are underinsured or who are stuck with 1000K monthly premiums.
I think you are wrong Olives!

THE TRUTH: The health bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.

Two main bills are being rushed through Congress with the goal of combining them into a finished product by August. Under either, a new government bureaucracy will select health plans that it considers in your best interest, and you will have to enroll in one of these "qualified plans." If you now get your plan through work, your employer has a five-year "grace period" to switch you into a qualified plan. If you buy your own insurance, you'll have less time.

And as soon as anything changes in your contract - such as a change in copays or deductibles, which many insurers change every year - you'll have to move into a qualified plan instead (House bill, p. 16-17).

When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars - as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size - and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).

It's one thing to require that people getting government assistance tolerate managed care, but the legislation limits you to a managed-care plan even if you and your employer are footing the bill (Senate bill, p. 57-58). The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Extra Olives
Veteran
uh-oh
Aug 17 2009, 07:02 PM
Extra Olives
Aug 17 2009, 12:04 PM
The health care plan will not be "forced" on anyone. If you have a good plan now and want to keep it, you may do so. What this reform does do, however, is give choices to the millions of people out there who do not have insurance, are underinsured or who are stuck with 1000K monthly premiums.
I think you are wrong Olives!

THE TRUTH: The health bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.

Two main bills are being rushed through Congress with the goal of combining them into a finished product by August. Under either, a new government bureaucracy will select health plans that it considers in your best interest, and you will have to enroll in one of these "qualified plans." If you now get your plan through work, your employer has a five-year "grace period" to switch you into a qualified plan. If you buy your own insurance, you'll have less time.

And as soon as anything changes in your contract - such as a change in copays or deductibles, which many insurers change every year - you'll have to move into a qualified plan instead (House bill, p. 16-17).

When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars - as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size - and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).

It's one thing to require that people getting government assistance tolerate managed care, but the legislation limits you to a managed-care plan even if you and your employer are footing the bill (Senate bill, p. 57-58). The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay.

I heard the words coming out of Obama's mouth the other day at a speech he was giving out west. It will not force anyone to change if you do not choose to do so. It will not dictate who you choose for a doctor. If you like the plan you have now, by all means, keep it. The fear mongers out there want you to believe that this will be forced on everyone. It will not be. It's all about choices.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ms. AK
Veteran
These are bills, merely bills at this point. The House and Senate versions are still evolving...and a great deal at this point. Nothing has been agreed to.

What is scaring the heck out of me is that yo-yos are bringing guns to these public forums. Why are people so scared that they need to brandish guns?

Also, Medicare/VA health care is run by the government already--and the vast majority love their benefits.

To all these people saying "no" to healthcare reform--but refuse to give up their own government-run healthcare is plain hypocrisy--and ignorance. Ignorance and fear are ruling this debate.

I don't know about a single-payer system, but health insurance needs reform. Why?

1. Because an insurer can cancel you, if you get too expensive.
2. Insurers can deny you coverage, if you have pre-existing conditions.
3. Insurers refuse to fully cover mental health. With our soldiers coming back with all sorts of stress disorders, don't they deserve proper care?
4. Costs are exorbitant for people out of work.
5. Health care bills bankrupt people with and w/o insurance.
6. Places like Walmart pay their employees so poorly, that they remain on public assistance. Therefore, the public is subsidizing Walmart's employees. Walmart can afford to pay people a living wage and give them insurance. Walmart is raking in billions. So, why are we giving them tax breaks and then using our tax dollars to pay what should be Walmart's own bills?
Krome on Cars

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
uh-oh
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Extra Olives
Aug 18 2009, 11:48 AM
uh-oh
Aug 17 2009, 07:02 PM
Extra Olives
Aug 17 2009, 12:04 PM
The health care plan will not be "forced" on anyone. If you have a good plan now and want to keep it, you may do so. What this reform does do, however, is give choices to the millions of people out there who do not have insurance, are underinsured or who are stuck with 1000K monthly premiums.
I think you are wrong Olives!

THE TRUTH: The health bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.

Two main bills are being rushed through Congress with the goal of combining them into a finished product by August. Under either, a new government bureaucracy will select health plans that it considers in your best interest, and you will have to enroll in one of these "qualified plans." If you now get your plan through work, your employer has a five-year "grace period" to switch you into a qualified plan. If you buy your own insurance, you'll have less time.

And as soon as anything changes in your contract - such as a change in copays or deductibles, which many insurers change every year - you'll have to move into a qualified plan instead (House bill, p. 16-17).

When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars - as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size - and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).

It's one thing to require that people getting government assistance tolerate managed care, but the legislation limits you to a managed-care plan even if you and your employer are footing the bill (Senate bill, p. 57-58). The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay.

I heard the words coming out of Obama's mouth the other day at a speech he was giving out west. It will not force anyone to change if you do not choose to do so. It will not dictate who you choose for a doctor. If you like the plan you have now, by all means, keep it. The fear mongers out there want you to believe that this will be forced on everyone. It will not be. It's all about choices.
Here is where we differ Olives. I also heard Obama say many, many times during his campaign that he would not support earmarks. In his stimulus bill there were over 9000 of them. Just like most politicians, the truth (and the reality)is a far cry from what comes out of his mouth. It surprizes me that you will ignore the proposed bill in favor of what comes out of his mouth.

I also heard that Congress (and our Pres. and family)would be exempt from this 'reform'. If it is so great, why are they going to be exempt?

This is not about choices, it's about power and the gov't controlling 1/6 of our national economy.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
uh-oh
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Anna Krome
Aug 18 2009, 02:19 PM
These are bills, merely bills at this point. The House and Senate versions are still evolving...and a great deal at this point. Nothing has been agreed to.

What is scaring the heck out of me is that yo-yos are bringing guns to these public forums. Why are people so scared that they need to brandish guns?

Also, Medicare/VA health care is run by the government already--and the vast majority love their benefits.

To all these people saying "no" to healthcare reform--but refuse to give up their own government-run healthcare is plain hypocrisy--and ignorance. Ignorance and fear are ruling this debate.

I don't know about a single-payer system, but health insurance needs reform. Why?

1. Because an insurer can cancel you, if you get too expensive.
2. Insurers can deny you coverage, if you have pre-existing conditions.
3. Insurers refuse to fully cover mental health. With our soldiers coming back with all sorts of stress disorders, don't they deserve proper care?
4. Costs are exorbitant for people out of work.
5. Health care bills bankrupt people with and w/o insurance.
6. Places like Walmart pay their employees so poorly, that they remain on public assistance. Therefore, the public is subsidizing Walmart's employees. Walmart can afford to pay people a living wage and give them insurance. Walmart is raking in billions. So, why are we giving them tax breaks and then using our tax dollars to pay what should be Walmart's own bills?
You must be kidding Anna. "the vast majority love their benefits"? I don't know where you get your info, but most seniors and welfare recipients that I know, feel their coverage is woefully inadequate and is a paperwork nightmare.

I agree that change needs to occur, but in the form of improving the current system. Increased competition, caps on pharmaceutical costs, efficient communication between providers, etc.

You are right that fear is a factor in this debate. I'm scared to death. That doesn't make me ignorant--cynical perhaps, but not ignorant. I think it is ignorant to believe any gov't run system is going to be better than what we currently have. They can't manage anything--social security, medicaid/care, vereran care, etc. Why on earth do you think they can run this??

There is not a system in the world that works as well as ours does. If you look at every other gov't run plan, the lines are long, the choices few, and the treatment scarce and of minimal quality. There is no way I want some bureaucrat making decisions about my health. I'd rather leave it to my doctor( and as it is now, the Doc does make the decision, not the insurance co--they just decide what they will and won't pay for).

Lastly, we can't pay for this. As far as I know, there is not a real $$ tree on the back lawn of the White House. Our President should stop spending money we don't have and doing so on things most people don't want.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Anna Krome
Aug 18 2009, 02:19 PM
These are bills, merely bills at this point. The House and Senate versions are still evolving...and a great deal at this point. Nothing has been agreed to.

What is scaring the heck out of me is that yo-yos are bringing guns to these public forums. Why are people so scared that they need to brandish guns?

Also, Medicare/VA health care is run by the government already--and the vast majority love their benefits.

To all these people saying "no" to healthcare reform--but refuse to give up their own government-run healthcare is plain hypocrisy--and ignorance. Ignorance and fear are ruling this debate.

I don't know about a single-payer system, but health insurance needs reform. Why?

1. Because an insurer can cancel you, if you get too expensive.
2. Insurers can deny you coverage, if you have pre-existing conditions.
3. Insurers refuse to fully cover mental health. With our soldiers coming back with all sorts of stress disorders, don't they deserve proper care?
4. Costs are exorbitant for people out of work.
5. Health care bills bankrupt people with and w/o insurance.
6. Places like Walmart pay their employees so poorly, that they remain on public assistance. Therefore, the public is subsidizing Walmart's employees. Walmart can afford to pay people a living wage and give them insurance. Walmart is raking in billions. So, why are we giving them tax breaks and then using our tax dollars to pay what should be Walmart's own bills?
Wow.... Nicely said Anna!
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

uh-oh
Aug 18 2009, 03:28 PM
Anna Krome
Aug 18 2009, 02:19 PM
These are bills, merely bills at this point. The House and Senate versions are still evolving...and a great deal at this point. Nothing has been agreed to.

What is scaring the heck out of me is that yo-yos are bringing guns to these public forums. Why are people so scared that they need to brandish guns?

Also, Medicare/VA health care is run by the government already--and the vast majority love their benefits.

To all these people saying "no" to healthcare reform--but refuse to give up their own government-run healthcare is plain hypocrisy--and ignorance. Ignorance and fear are ruling this debate.

I don't know about a single-payer system, but health insurance needs reform. Why?

1. Because an insurer can cancel you, if you get too expensive.
2. Insurers can deny you coverage, if you have pre-existing conditions.
3. Insurers refuse to fully cover mental health. With our soldiers coming back with all sorts of stress disorders, don't they deserve proper care?
4. Costs are exorbitant for people out of work.
5. Health care bills bankrupt people with and w/o insurance.
6. Places like Walmart pay their employees so poorly, that they remain on public assistance. Therefore, the public is subsidizing Walmart's employees. Walmart can afford to pay people a living wage and give them insurance. Walmart is raking in billions. So, why are we giving them tax breaks and then using our tax dollars to pay what should be Walmart's own bills?
You must be kidding Anna. "the vast majority love their benefits"? I don't know where you get your info, but most seniors and welfare recipients that I know, feel their coverage is woefully inadequate and is a paperwork nightmare.

I agree that change needs to occur, but in the form of improving the current system. Increased competition, caps on pharmaceutical costs, efficient communication between providers, etc.

You are right that fear is a factor in this debate. I'm scared to death. That doesn't make me ignorant--cynical perhaps, but not ignorant. I think it is ignorant to believe any gov't run system is going to be better than what we currently have. They can't manage anything--social security, medicaid/care, vereran care, etc. Why on earth do you think they can run this??

There is not a system in the world that works as well as ours does. If you look at every other gov't run plan, the lines are long, the choices few, and the treatment scarce and of minimal quality. There is no way I want some bureaucrat making decisions about my health. I'd rather leave it to my doctor( and as it is now, the Doc does make the decision, not the insurance co--they just decide what they will and won't pay for).

Lastly, we can't pay for this. As far as I know, there is not a real $$ tree on the back lawn of the White House. Our President should stop spending money we don't have and doing so on things most people don't want.
So keep your plan.... and let others choose what's best for them!
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Extra Olives
Veteran
uh-oh
Aug 18 2009, 03:05 PM
Extra Olives
Aug 18 2009, 11:48 AM
uh-oh
Aug 17 2009, 07:02 PM
Extra Olives
Aug 17 2009, 12:04 PM
The health care plan will not be "forced" on anyone. If you have a good plan now and want to keep it, you may do so. What this reform does do, however, is give choices to the millions of people out there who do not have insurance, are underinsured or who are stuck with 1000K monthly premiums.
I think you are wrong Olives!

THE TRUTH: The health bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.

Two main bills are being rushed through Congress with the goal of combining them into a finished product by August. Under either, a new government bureaucracy will select health plans that it considers in your best interest, and you will have to enroll in one of these "qualified plans." If you now get your plan through work, your employer has a five-year "grace period" to switch you into a qualified plan. If you buy your own insurance, you'll have less time.

And as soon as anything changes in your contract - such as a change in copays or deductibles, which many insurers change every year - you'll have to move into a qualified plan instead (House bill, p. 16-17).

When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars - as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size - and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).

It's one thing to require that people getting government assistance tolerate managed care, but the legislation limits you to a managed-care plan even if you and your employer are footing the bill (Senate bill, p. 57-58). The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay.

I heard the words coming out of Obama's mouth the other day at a speech he was giving out west. It will not force anyone to change if you do not choose to do so. It will not dictate who you choose for a doctor. If you like the plan you have now, by all means, keep it. The fear mongers out there want you to believe that this will be forced on everyone. It will not be. It's all about choices.
Here is where we differ Olives. I also heard Obama say many, many times during his campaign that he would not support earmarks. In his stimulus bill there were over 9000 of them. Just like most politicians, the truth (and the reality)is a far cry from what comes out of his mouth. It surprizes me that you will ignore the proposed bill in favor of what comes out of his mouth.

I also heard that Congress (and our Pres. and family)would be exempt from this 'reform'. If it is so great, why are they going to be exempt?

This is not about choices, it's about power and the gov't controlling 1/6 of our national economy.
I don't believe there is a proposed bill yet. Nothing concrete has been brought to Congress at this time.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Extra Olives
Veteran
Opponents of true health care reform will say and do anything to scare the bejeebers out of those on the fence. It is high time the U.S. get with the program and catch up with the rest of the industrialized nations who all provide some type of health care for their citizens. Medicare is already out there. You don't hear many people complaining about that. Basically, health care reform would mean Medicare for anyone and everyone who wants/needs it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mrs.M
Veteran
Universal Health Care

While discussing the upcoming Universal Health Care Program, I think we have found the solution.

I am sure you have heard the idea that if you 're a senior you need to suck it up and give up the idea that you need any health care. A new hip? Unheard of. We simply can't afford to take care of you anymore. You don't need any medications for your high blood pressure, diabetes, heart problems, etc. Let's take care of the young people. After all, they will be ruling the world very soon.

So here is our solution. When you turn 70, you get a gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed to shoot 2 senators and 2 representatives. Of course, you will be sent to prison where you will get 3 meals a day, a roof over your head and all the health care you need! New teeth, great! Need glasses, no problem. New hip, knee, kidney, lung, heart? Well, bring it on.

And who will be paying for all of this? The same government that just told you that you are too old for health care. And, since you are a prisoner, you don't have to pay any income tax.

I really think we have found a Perfect Solution!

(email received)
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mrs.M
Veteran
No I haven't checked the validity or claims of any of these bullets. For your pursual, if you wish

A few details of the current Health Care Bill in the House.

Pg 22 - MANDATES the govt. will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self-insure.

Pg 30, Sec 123 - GOVT COMMITTEE decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Pg 29, lines 4-16 - HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED.

Pg 42 - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. YOU have no choice.

Pg 50, Section 152 - HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 58 - Govt will have real-time access to individual's finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! [Mark of the Beast? Rev 13]

Pg 59, lines 21-24 - Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer

Pg 65, Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in labor unions & community organizations [such as ACORN].

Pg 72, Lines 8-14 - Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

Pg 84, Sec 203l - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Pg 85, Line 7 - Specifies Benefit Levels for all Plans [The Govt will ration your Healthcare].

Pg 91, Lines 4-7 - Govt mandates linguistic services. Example - Translation for illegal aliens.

Pg 95, Lines 8-18 - Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Pg 85, Line 7 - Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. [AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed]

Pg 102, Lines 12-18 - Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. [No choice]

Pg 124, lines 24-25 - No company can sue Govt for price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Pg 127, Lines 1-16 - Doctors/AMA... The Govt will tell you what you can earn.

Pg 145, Line 15-17 - An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. [NO CHOICE]

Pg 126, Lines 22-25 - Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149, Lines 16-24 - ANY Employer with payroll of 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% additional tax on all payroll.

Pg 150, Lines 9-13 - Business w/payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% additional tax on all payroll.

Pg 167, Lines 18-23 - ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed additional 2.5% of income.

Pg 170, Lines 1-3 - Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual Taxes. [however, Americans will pay]

Pg 195 - officers & employees of HC Administration [GOVT] will have access to ALL Americans' financial/personal records.

Pg 203, Line 14-15 - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" [Yes, it says that]

Pg 239, Line 14-24 - Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid, Seniors, low income, poor, affected [Pay attention seniors]

Pg 241, Line 6-8 - Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same salary.

Pg 253, Line 10-18 - Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgment, etc. [Literally, value of humans]

Pg 265, Sec 1131 - Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Pg 268, Sec 1141 - Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Pg 272, SEC. 1145, TREATMENT BY CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - [Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!]

Pg 280, Sec 1151 - Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Pg 298, Lines 9-11 - Drs who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission, Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317, L 13-20 - PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318, lines 21-25, 1-3 - PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Pg 321, 2-13 - Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. [govt permission]

Pg 335, Lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based measures. [HC the way they want. Rationing]

Pg 341, Lines 3-9 - Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc., forcing people into Govt plan.

Pg 354, Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special Needs people. [such as Downs Syndrome]

Pg 379, Sec 1191 - Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. [HC by phone?]

Pg 425, Lines 4-12 - Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. [Think Senior Citizens: end of life]

Pg 425, Lines 17-19 - Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

Pg 425, Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 - Govt provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death. [think mandatory Kervorkian]

Pg 427, Lines 15-24 - Govt mandates program for orders for end-of-life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429, Lines 1-9 - An "Advocate Care Planning Consultant" will be used frequently as patient's health deteriorates.

Pg 429, Lines 10-12 - "Advocate Care Consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. [An ORDER from GOV]

Pg 429, Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end-of-life order.

Pg 430, Lines 11-15 - The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life.

Pg 469 - Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. [ACORN Medical Services]

Pg 472 Lines 14-17 - PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. Monthly payment to a community-based organization. [Like ACORN]

Pg 489, Sec 1308 - The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. [Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage]

Pg 494-498 - Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.



I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vanna White
Member Avatar
Veteran
There are several bills being worked on from what I understand.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
uh-oh
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Extra Olives
Aug 19 2009, 12:34 PM
Opponents of true health care reform will say and do anything to scare the bejeebers out of those on the fence. It is high time the U.S. get with the program and catch up with the rest of the industrialized nations who all provide some type of health care for their citizens. Medicare is already out there. You don't hear many people complaining about that. Basically, health care reform would mean Medicare for anyone and everyone who wants/needs it.
I can't believe you don't hear people complaining about medicare! Almost every senior I know(if they are not receiving health benefits as part of their pension) has to supplement their medicare coverage with additional insurance.

Likewise, I have had many clients on medicaid who are happy to have coverage, but hate the bs paperwork, and legwork that goes along with it.

There is a better way.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
uh-oh
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Health-Care Reform: A Better Plan



By Charles Krauthammer

Friday, August 7, 2009

In 1986, Ronald Reagan and Bill Bradley created a legislative miracle. They fashioned a tax reform that stripped loopholes, political favors, payoffs, patronage and other corruptions out of the tax system. With the resulting savings, they lowered tax rates across the board. Those reductions, combined with the elimination of the enormous inefficiencies and perverse incentives that go into tax sheltering, helped propel a 20-year economic boom.

In overhauling any segment of our economy, the 1986 tax reform should be the model. Yet today's ruling Democrats propose to fix our extremely high-quality (but inefficient and therefore expensive) health-care system with 1,000 pages of additional curlicued complexity -- employer mandates, individual mandates, insurance company mandates, allocation formulas, political payoffs and myriad other conjured regulations and interventions -- with the promise that this massive concoction will lower costs.

This is all quite mad. It creates a Rube Goldberg system that simply multiplies the current inefficiencies and arbitrariness, thus producing staggering deficits with less choice and lower-quality care. That's why the administration can't sell Obamacare.

The administration's defense is to accuse critics of being for the status quo. Nonsense. Candidate John McCain and a host of other Republicans since have offered alternatives. Let me offer mine: Strip away current inefficiencies before remaking one-sixth of the U.S. economy. The plan is so simple it doesn't even have the requisite three parts. Just two: radical tort reform and radically severing the link between health insurance and employment.

(1) Tort reform: As I wrote recently, our crazy system of casino malpractice suits results in massive and random settlements that raise everyone's insurance premiums and creates an epidemic of defensive medicine that does no medical good, yet costs a fortune.

An authoritative Massachusetts Medical Society study found that five out of six doctors admitted they order tests, procedures and referrals -- amounting to about 25 percent of the total -- solely as protection from lawsuits. Defensive medicine, estimates the libertarian/conservative Pacific Research Institute, wastes more than $200 billion a year. Just half that sum could provide a $5,000 health insurance grant -- $20,000 for a family of four -- to the uninsured poor (U.S. citizens ineligible for other government health assistance).

What to do? Abolish the entire medical-malpractice system. Create a new social pool from which people injured in medical errors or accidents can draw. The adjudication would be done by medical experts, not lay juries giving away lottery prizes at the behest of the liquid-tongued John Edwardses who pocket a third of the proceeds.

The pool would be funded by a relatively small tax on all health-insurance premiums. Socialize the risk; cut out the trial lawyers. Would that immunize doctors from carelessness or negligence? No. The penalty would be losing your medical license. There is no more serious deterrent than forfeiting a decade of intensive medical training and the livelihood that comes with it.

(2) Real health-insurance reform: Tax employer-provided health-care benefits and return the money to the employee with a government check to buy his own medical insurance, just as he buys his own car or home insurance.

There is no logical reason to get health insurance through your employer. This entire system is an accident of World War II wage and price controls. It's economically senseless. It makes people stay in jobs they hate, decreasing labor mobility and therefore overall productivity. And it needlessly increases the anxiety of losing your job by raising the additional specter of going bankrupt through illness.

The health-care benefit exemption is the largest tax break in the entire U.S. budget, costing the government a quarter-trillion dollars annually. It hinders health-insurance security and portability as well as personal independence. If we additionally eliminated the prohibition on buying personal health insurance across state lines, that would inject new and powerful competition that would lower costs for everyone.

Repealing the exemption has one fatal flaw, however. It was advocated by candidate John McCain. Obama so demagogued it last year that he cannot bring it up now without being accused of the most extreme hypocrisy and without being mercilessly attacked with his own 2008 ads.

But that's a political problem of Obama's making. As is the Democratic Party's indebtedness to the trial lawyers, which has taken malpractice reform totally off the table. But that doesn't change the logic of my proposal. Go the Reagan-Bradley route. Offer sensible, simple, yet radical reform that strips away inefficiencies from the existing system before adding Obamacare's new ones -- arbitrary, politically driven, structural inventions whose consequence is certain financial ruin.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com


Note: Krauthammer is a columnist for the Washington Post.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ms. AK
Veteran
Mrs.M
Aug 19 2009, 01:12 PM
No I haven't checked the validity or claims of any of these bullets. For your pursual, if you wish

A few details of the current Health Care Bill in the House.

Pg 22 - MANDATES the govt. will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self-insure.

Pg 30, Sec 123 - GOVT COMMITTEE decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Pg 29, lines 4-16 - HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED.

Pg 42 - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. YOU have no choice.

Pg 50, Section 152 - HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 58 - Govt will have real-time access to individual's finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! [Mark of the Beast? Rev 13]

Pg 59, lines 21-24 - Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer

Pg 65, Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in labor unions & community organizations [such as ACORN].

Pg 72, Lines 8-14 - Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

Pg 84, Sec 203l - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Pg 85, Line 7 - Specifies Benefit Levels for all Plans [The Govt will ration your Healthcare].

Pg 91, Lines 4-7 - Govt mandates linguistic services. Example - Translation for illegal aliens.

Pg 95, Lines 8-18 - Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Pg 85, Line 7 - Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. [AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed]

Pg 102, Lines 12-18 - Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. [No choice]

Pg 124, lines 24-25 - No company can sue Govt for price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Pg 127, Lines 1-16 - Doctors/AMA... The Govt will tell you what you can earn.

Pg 145, Line 15-17 - An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. [NO CHOICE]

Pg 126, Lines 22-25 - Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149, Lines 16-24 - ANY Employer with payroll of 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% additional tax on all payroll.

Pg 150, Lines 9-13 - Business w/payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% additional tax on all payroll.

Pg 167, Lines 18-23 - ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed additional 2.5% of income.

Pg 170, Lines 1-3 - Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual Taxes. [however, Americans will pay]

Pg 195 - officers & employees of HC Administration [GOVT] will have access to ALL Americans' financial/personal records.

Pg 203, Line 14-15 - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" [Yes, it says that]

Pg 239, Line 14-24 - Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid, Seniors, low income, poor, affected [Pay attention seniors]

Pg 241, Line 6-8 - Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same salary.

Pg 253, Line 10-18 - Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgment, etc. [Literally, value of humans]

Pg 265, Sec 1131 - Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Pg 268, Sec 1141 - Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Pg 272, SEC. 1145, TREATMENT BY CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - [Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!]

Pg 280, Sec 1151 - Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Pg 298, Lines 9-11 - Drs who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission, Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317, L 13-20 - PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318, lines 21-25, 1-3 - PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Pg 321, 2-13 - Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. [govt permission]

Pg 335, Lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based measures. [HC the way they want. Rationing]

Pg 341, Lines 3-9 - Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc., forcing people into Govt plan.

Pg 354, Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special Needs people. [such as Downs Syndrome]

Pg 379, Sec 1191 - Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. [HC by phone?]

Pg 425, Lines 4-12 - Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. [Think Senior Citizens: end of life]

Pg 425, Lines 17-19 - Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

Pg 425, Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 - Govt provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death. [think mandatory Kervorkian]

Pg 427, Lines 15-24 - Govt mandates program for orders for end-of-life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429, Lines 1-9 - An "Advocate Care Planning Consultant" will be used frequently as patient's health deteriorates.

Pg 429, Lines 10-12 - "Advocate Care Consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. [An ORDER from GOV]

Pg 429, Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end-of-life order.

Pg 430, Lines 11-15 - The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life.

Pg 469 - Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. [ACORN Medical Services]

Pg 472 Lines 14-17 - PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. Monthly payment to a community-based organization. [Like ACORN]

Pg 489, Sec 1308 - The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. [Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage]

Pg 494-498 - Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.



By the way these read, they are someone's interpretations of some bill's language.

This should be taken with that in mind.


Krome on Cars

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Micki
I love teaching.
It seems pretty straightforward to me. Interpretation or not this bill is a mess. It still needs a LOT of work!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Extra Olives
Aug 18 2009, 11:48 AM
uh-oh
Aug 17 2009, 07:02 PM
Extra Olives
Aug 17 2009, 12:04 PM
The health care plan will not be "forced" on anyone. If you have a good plan now and want to keep it, you may do so. What this reform does do, however, is give choices to the millions of people out there who do not have insurance, are underinsured or who are stuck with 1000K monthly premiums.
I think you are wrong Olives!

THE TRUTH: The health bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.

Two main bills are being rushed through Congress with the goal of combining them into a finished product by August. Under either, a new government bureaucracy will select health plans that it considers in your best interest, and you will have to enroll in one of these "qualified plans." If you now get your plan through work, your employer has a five-year "grace period" to switch you into a qualified plan. If you buy your own insurance, you'll have less time.

And as soon as anything changes in your contract - such as a change in copays or deductibles, which many insurers change every year - you'll have to move into a qualified plan instead (House bill, p. 16-17).

When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars - as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size - and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).

It's one thing to require that people getting government assistance tolerate managed care, but the legislation limits you to a managed-care plan even if you and your employer are footing the bill (Senate bill, p. 57-58). The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay.

I heard the words coming out of Obama's mouth the other day at a speech he was giving out west. It will not force anyone to change if you do not choose to do so. It will not dictate who you choose for a doctor. If you like the plan you have now, by all means, keep it. The fear mongers out there want you to believe that this will be forced on everyone. It will not be. It's all about choices.
I heard Randy say the LI would save money and improve our kids education.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Livonia Neighbors Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply