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Observer Letter to the editor (sacrifice)
Topic Started: Aug 6 2009, 07:40 PM (5,009 Views)
RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
If you are a member of the union and you don't know what LPS is offering at the table, then you don't know (or aren't talking to) the right people. To think that every bargaining team member refuses to tell anyone, especially close friends in the same union, what is being offered is absurd.
Edited by RU Kidding Me?, Aug 11 2009, 06:37 PM.
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Ms. AK
Veteran
My mother was a union steward for AFSME some years ago. What she knew, the people she represented knew--and she was in touch with them throughout.

The union members pay their dues to be represented, and they expected to be in the loop.

At least that's how it used to be.
Krome on Cars

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Mrs.M
Veteran
AFSCME
American Federation of State County & Municipal Employees

The C may be silent when you pronounce it but it does include County employees, don't leave them out.

Another tidbit of info, the AFSCME union falls under the even bigger umbrella AFL-CIO
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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kitkat
Member
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RU Kidding Me?
Aug 11 2009, 06:36 PM
If you are a member of the union and you don't know what LPS is offering at the table, then you don't know (or aren't talking to) the right people. To think that every bargaining team member refuses to tell anyone, especially close friends in the same union, what is being offered is absurd.
I have been on a bargaining team before. You take a poll of your members of what is important to them (raises, insurance,vacation, etc.) you then meet with the other sides team and negotiate what your members have stated is most important to them. You DO NOT discuss with any members what is being said at the bargaining table because it can change daily, weekly, monthly (depending on how often you meet) and the reason for that is because something that was talked about one day (week, month) can be completely taken off of the table the next day (week, month). So it is NOT in the best interest of any person on the bargaining team to talk about what is going on at the table because the end result could be completely different when a tentative agreement has been reached! Each side say and do things that could end up never seeing the light of day.
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mmmmkay?
Advanced Member
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kitkat
Aug 11 2009, 07:51 PM
RU Kidding Me?
Aug 11 2009, 06:36 PM
If you are a member of the union and you don't know what LPS is offering at the table, then you don't know (or aren't talking to) the right people. To think that every bargaining team member refuses to tell anyone, especially close friends in the same union, what is being offered is absurd.
I have been on a bargaining team before. You take a poll of your members of what is important to them (raises, insurance,vacation, etc.) you then meet with the other sides team and negotiate what your members have stated is most important to them. You DO NOT discuss with any members what is being said at the bargaining table because it can change daily, weekly, monthly (depending on how often you meet) and the reason for that is because something that was talked about one day (week, month) can be completely taken off of the table the next day (week, month). So it is NOT in the best interest of any person on the bargaining team to talk about what is going on at the table because the end result could be completely different when a tentative agreement has been reached! Each side say and do things that could end up never seeing the light of day.
Strangely different than our union bargaining. Every item brought to the table was shared with the rank & file daily for their input into the next negotiating session. This way there was no guessing or suspicion of deals cut in the back room with a handshake and a back slap. Makes me wonder why so many unions, and so many contract negotiations are so different?



mmmmkay?
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Vanna White
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mmmmkay?
Aug 11 2009, 08:40 PM
kitkat
Aug 11 2009, 07:51 PM
RU Kidding Me?
Aug 11 2009, 06:36 PM
If you are a member of the union and you don't know what LPS is offering at the table, then you don't know (or aren't talking to) the right people. To think that every bargaining team member refuses to tell anyone, especially close friends in the same union, what is being offered is absurd.
I have been on a bargaining team before. You take a poll of your members of what is important to them (raises, insurance,vacation, etc.) you then meet with the other sides team and negotiate what your members have stated is most important to them. You DO NOT discuss with any members what is being said at the bargaining table because it can change daily, weekly, monthly (depending on how often you meet) and the reason for that is because something that was talked about one day (week, month) can be completely taken off of the table the next day (week, month). So it is NOT in the best interest of any person on the bargaining team to talk about what is going on at the table because the end result could be completely different when a tentative agreement has been reached! Each side say and do things that could end up never seeing the light of day.
Strangely different than our union bargaining. Every item brought to the table was shared with the rank & file daily for their input into the next negotiating session. This way there was no guessing or suspicion of deals cut in the back room with a handshake and a back slap. Makes me wonder why so many unions, and so many contract negotiations are so different?



mmmmkay?
I have been on the employer's team at the bargaining table. The reality is that it can work either way. There is almost always a "gentlemen's'" agreement in the beginning of bargaining to keep what is said at the table confidential until there is a final product (TA,) but it is not always adhered to.

My own experience with AFSCME has been very good. The lead negotiator was straightforward and the bargaining team seemed to keep things very calm amongst the members while we sorted out our differences. But the reality it that doesn't always happen that way...much depends on the dynamics of the relationship and the lead negotiators on both sides. Some unions and some employers will spend substantial effort posturing to employees, sometimes even releasing blatantly false information in order to sway the results. Sometimes unions paint the tone of negotiations to be more negative than it really is to give the impression that the union is working hard for the members. Sometimes employers will make the company financials sound worse than they are in order to get consessions. Negotiations can be anything from a reasonable discussion of the issues to a lot of table pounding, swearing, threats and dramatics...it just depends on the people involved.
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Vanna White
Aug 11 2009, 09:58 PM
mmmmkay?
Aug 11 2009, 08:40 PM
kitkat
Aug 11 2009, 07:51 PM
RU Kidding Me?
Aug 11 2009, 06:36 PM
If you are a member of the union and you don't know what LPS is offering at the table, then you don't know (or aren't talking to) the right people. To think that every bargaining team member refuses to tell anyone, especially close friends in the same union, what is being offered is absurd.
I have been on a bargaining team before. You take a poll of your members of what is important to them (raises, insurance,vacation, etc.) you then meet with the other sides team and negotiate what your members have stated is most important to them. You DO NOT discuss with any members what is being said at the bargaining table because it can change daily, weekly, monthly (depending on how often you meet) and the reason for that is because something that was talked about one day (week, month) can be completely taken off of the table the next day (week, month). So it is NOT in the best interest of any person on the bargaining team to talk about what is going on at the table because the end result could be completely different when a tentative agreement has been reached! Each side say and do things that could end up never seeing the light of day.
Strangely different than our union bargaining. Every item brought to the table was shared with the rank & file daily for their input into the next negotiating session. This way there was no guessing or suspicion of deals cut in the back room with a handshake and a back slap. Makes me wonder why so many unions, and so many contract negotiations are so different?



mmmmkay?
I have been on the employer's team at the bargaining table. The reality is that it can work either way. There is almost always a "gentlemen's'" agreement in the beginning of bargaining to keep what is said at the table confidential until there is a final product (TA,) but it is not always adhered to.

My own experience with AFSCME has been very good. The lead negotiator was straightforward and the bargaining team seemed to keep things very calm amongst the members while we sorted out our differences. But the reality it that doesn't always happen that way...much depends on the dynamics of the relationship and the lead negotiators on both sides. Some unions and some employers will spend substantial effort posturing to employees, sometimes even releasing blatantly false information in order to sway the results. Sometimes unions paint the tone of negotiations to be more negative than it really is to give the impression that the union is working hard for the members. Sometimes employers will make the company financials sound worse than they are in order to get consessions. Negotiations can be anything from a reasonable discussion of the issues to a lot of table pounding, swearing, threats and dramatics...it just depends on the people involved.
Just remember, the "people involved" on behalf of LPS are Ray Raymond, Dorothy Chomicz, and that queen of diplomacy Lisa Abbey.

“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
kitkat
Aug 11 2009, 07:51 PM
RU Kidding Me?
Aug 11 2009, 06:36 PM
If you are a member of the union and you don't know what LPS is offering at the table, then you don't know (or aren't talking to) the right people. To think that every bargaining team member refuses to tell anyone, especially close friends in the same union, what is being offered is absurd.
I have been on a bargaining team before. You take a poll of your members of what is important to them (raises, insurance,vacation, etc.) you then meet with the other sides team and negotiate what your members have stated is most important to them. You DO NOT discuss with any members what is being said at the bargaining table because it can change daily, weekly, monthly (depending on how often you meet) and the reason for that is because something that was talked about one day (week, month) can be completely taken off of the table the next day (week, month). So it is NOT in the best interest of any person on the bargaining team to talk about what is going on at the table because the end result could be completely different when a tentative agreement has been reached! Each side say and do things that could end up never seeing the light of day.
If some of your union members told me about your negotiations, would you call me at work to demand their names? Would you refuse to say wether or not you were calling on behalf of the union? Would you refuse to state wether the president of your union knew you were calling? Would you go to your employer to get my unlisted number?

If you did, just who would you be representing?


PS Does anyone have a contact number for Vicki Markul (president of AFSCME)? I want to ask her if she approved Walter Klotz's little witch hunt.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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Ms. AK
Veteran
I wonder who Mr. Klotz was representing when he called your unlisted number and tried to extract your sources.

Hmmmm. Are they shooting the Sopranos in Livonia?
Krome on Cars

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Administrator
Administrator
Livonia School trustees hear complaints about cuts
By Ken Abramczyk • Observer Staff Writer • May 21, 2009

Trustees for Livonia Public Schools heard from learning specialists, technology paraprofessionals and parents Wednesday at a public hearing on budget cuts and they spoke loud and clear.

Don’t cut our programs.

The public hearing was scheduled to discuss $4.3 million in proposed budget cuts to address a $7.5 million deficit in the district’s $160 million budget.

The district will be able to maintain current programs and class sizes with $4.3 million in cuts, $2 million in revenue enhancements and cost containments, and $1.2 million from fund equity,
Superintendent Randy Liepa said earlier this month.

Administrators are recommending cuts of $485,000 at the elementary level, $529,000 at the secondary level, $1.62 million district wide, $290,000 in student services support staffing, $359,000 in professional development and textbooks, and $1.02 million in “other” spending, including salaries for the laid-off teachers. Cutting the school liaison program, abolishing the middle school summer school program and eliminating 5.5 paraprofessional positions are among the proposed cuts that would save $529,000 at the secondary level. At the elementary level, 9.5 technology paraprofessional positions and 6.5 school clerk jobs would be cut.

District wide, one principal position at a 5-6 elementary school would be eliminated along with eight support staff positions. Many of those who spoke at the meeting discussed the impact the cuts would have on the Reading Recovery programs and use of technology paraprofessionals. Reading Recovery is an intensive individualized reading and writing program for first graders.

Victoria Krupkowski, learning specialist in Reading Recovery at Grant, asked the board to consider what cuts in Reading Recovery would mean to the district down the road. such as declining MEAP scores. “If these students do not learn to read in the first grade, they will lag behind in literacy skills and make it impossible to catch up,” Krupkowski said.

Sue Shovlin, learning specialist at Kennedy, said if Reading Recovery were cut, those students would be taught in a group instead. “Lifelong learners can’t be lifelong learners if they can’t read,” Shovlin said.

Catherine Anderson, parent of four children, said two of her children benefited from the program in getting them to read. “I am convinced my son would have entered the second grade as a non-reader,” Anderson said. “As parents we want the best for our children. It was reassuring and validating for our family to have been selected (to the program) and watch their progress through the program.” Another parent told the board her daughter reached a level 20 in the program.

Other residents wanted the district’s employees to consider pay cuts to help cut the budget shortfall and help save programs. “We should have everybody join with that as a team and make it work,” said one. “How can we not help each other and have compassion for our colleagues?” asked another. One audience member suggested moving the school board elections to November.

Others spoke of the cuts directed at elementary schools.

Robin Della Mora, sixth grade instructor at Cooper, said cutting parapro positions would take away the district’s “cutting edge.” “We can’t do our jobs effectively without their assistance,” she said. She also wondered who would do the duties of the two principals if one of them were cut. She argued that the district should make the cuts more equitable at all levels, not just at the elementary level.

Peggy Fallows, technology parapro at Riley, said the numbers of technology parapros have decreased from 29 in 1997 to 14 positions. Children needed the parapros’ support as technology is ever-changing she said. If those positions were cut, media specialists will be called on to do some of the parapro’s duties. “Taking media specialists away will affect student achievement,” Fallows said.

Walter Klotz represented AFSCME Local 118, which represents custodians, food service, bus drivers, mechanics and maintenance, Last year 26 AFSCME positions were cut and six more are coming, he said. “Once again, AFSCME is taking a big hit,” Klotz said.

Board President Cynthia Markarian said trustees will consider the comments made at the public hearing and discuss the budget further at the next board meeting at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday. The budget will be approved by June 30.

“Eliminating anything entirely is an extremely difficult position,” Markarian said. “We’ll look to cut in other places and we’re looking for ideas. We have to look at things that are mandated and things that are in our control.”

kabramcz@hometownlife.com|(248) 222-2591

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20090521/NEWS10/90521012
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Ms. AK
Veteran
Vickie Markoul, president of AFSCME Local 118
Krome on Cars

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Administrator
Administrator
Some push for concessions to save Livonia school jobs

By Karen Smith • Observer Staff Writer • May 27, 2009

Asking all employees for 4.5- to 5-percent pay cuts was among the ideas discussed Tuesday by the Livonia board of education, which is seeking to plug a $7.5 million hole in next school year’s budget.

Some employees, including special education paraprofessional Sue Gonyou, told the board they are willing to make concessions if it means saving jobs.

“Michigan cannot afford to have one more person unemployed,” she said.

Trustee Patrice Mang agreed the district should ask all employees how they can help. “I think we all have to give something back,” she said, referencing school board members as well. School board members are paid $50 per meeting.

The board met to discuss $4.3 million in cuts proposed by administrators that include eliminating about 25-30 teaching positions, 15 paraprofessional jobs, eight support staff positions, a principal and an assistant principal and about six clerk positions.

The cuts, combined with $2 million in revenue enhancements and $1.2 million from fund equity, would balance the $160 million budget for 2009-10, according to administrators.

The board has made no decisions. It will discuss the budget again June 8. By state law, it must adopt a balanced budget by June 30.

Superintendent Dr. Randy Liepa declined to comment on the idea of employee concessions, saying he didn’t want to negotiate in public. He said the district is bargaining with its teachers and is getting ready to negotiate with AFSCME members.

The budget, as proposed, includes no raises except for contractual step increases.
Vickie Markoul, president of AFSCME Local 118, told the board staff cuts always seem to be made at the bottom rather than the top. “There’s got to be other ways that we can cut this budget,” she said, suggesting the board look at overtime costs.

Liepa said it’s a misconception that cuts haven’t been made at the top. He said the district has made “significant” reductions in its administrative staff in the past six years and has also significantly reduced overtime costs during that period.

President Cynthia Markarian said while she hates to see any staff cuts, she is concerned about eliminating all 9.5 technology paraprofessional positions at the elementary level, given the importance of technology education. “This one in particular is really rubbing me wrong,” she said.

Trustee Dan Lessard said the board could use more of its fund equity to save some positions. “The money’s there if we’re willing to do it.”

But Liepa cautioned the board against using any more of the district’s fund equity than the $1.2 million he has recommended, which would reduce the fund equity to about $4 million.

He said the news from Lansing is getting worse, not better, and the board may need some of that fund equity in the future.

The state is using federal stimulus dollars to help guarantee that the per-pupil foundation grant districts receive this school year remains the same for 2009-10, but stimulus dollars won’t be available for the year after, Liepa said.

Livonia receives $8,594 per student. About 90 percent of the district’s general fund revenue comes from per-pupil foundation grants.

Livonia projects an enrollment decline of 300 students, resulting in a revenue loss of about $2.58 million. Meanwhile, costs for step increases, health care, retirement and other expenses continue to climb, according to administrators.

ksmith@hometownlife.com | (313) 222-2098

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20090527/NEWS10/90527023/1027
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
By the way, while all of this has been going on, another round of raises went into effect.

We now have 43 in the 100k club. No wonder they are so desparate to squeeze AFSCME.

Sigh......
Edited by LPS Reformer, Aug 12 2009, 07:03 PM.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Take a look AFSCME. This is what you are being sacrificed to protect.

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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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Micki
I love teaching.
I wonder if some of these administrators are using this information to put pressure on Liepa to raise their salaries to match their peers.
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Momof4
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Micki
Aug 13 2009, 09:27 AM
I wonder if some of these administrators are using this information to put pressure on Liepa to raise their salaries to match their peers.
They should be using the information to shame each other into saving someone else's job - someone who works with the kids everyday.

I just heard of another friend who took a 10% pay cut -- AND he is vice president of the company. ALL employees took a cut - go figure. I guess LPS has more money than brains.
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Ms. AK
Veteran
Everyone blasts the unions for their "greed," but no one seems to really care about what happens at the top. Don't these individuals have secretaries and assistants? How much work could there possibly be for these enormous salaries? Do these administrators deserve to make more than 92% of the population--are they that valuable?

If administration were held accountable for the major loss of students, they would be out of jobs in the private sector. And, no, it's not the economy. No one is selling/buying houses. People are stuck.

I believe there is too much money and waste, and I'm not feeling good about next year's inevitable attempt at raising our taxes.
Krome on Cars

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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Wait till you get to vote on the sinking fund, and operating millages in November.

Remember these numbers when you go to vote.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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mmmmkay?
Advanced Member
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Momof4
Aug 13 2009, 12:05 PM
Micki
Aug 13 2009, 09:27 AM
I wonder if some of these administrators are using this information to put pressure on Liepa to raise their salaries to match their peers.
They should be using the information to shame each other into saving someone else's job - someone who works with the kids everyday.

I just heard of another friend who took a 10% pay cut -- AND he is vice president of the company. ALL employees took a cut - go figure. I guess LPS has more money than brains.
No, it's not the "more money than brains" scenario, it's the plain fact that the stewardship of the district has failed it's constituents. The BOE has been letting this get out of hand and out of their control since LESSard got on the BOE.

It's time to take back your school district. remember that when they try to ask for millage renewals, tax increases, bond sales, and especially at election time. If you don't effectively make a change, then you are allowing them to steal away your childs education and future.



mmmmkay?
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mmmmkay?
Aug 13 2009, 09:09 PM
Momof4
Aug 13 2009, 12:05 PM
Micki
Aug 13 2009, 09:27 AM
I wonder if some of these administrators are using this information to put pressure on Liepa to raise their salaries to match their peers.
They should be using the information to shame each other into saving someone else's job - someone who works with the kids everyday.

I just heard of another friend who took a 10% pay cut -- AND he is vice president of the company. ALL employees took a cut - go figure. I guess LPS has more money than brains.
No, it's not the "more money than brains" scenario, it's the plain fact that the stewardship of the district has failed it's constituents. The BOE has been letting this get out of hand and out of their control since LESSard got on the BOE.

It's time to take back your school district. remember that when they try to ask for millage renewals, tax increases, bond sales, and especially at election time. If you don't effectively make a change, then you are allowing them to steal away your childs education and future.



mmmmkay?
The best thing to do is send a clear message to LPS by voting "NO" as a "NO CONFIDENCE VOTE" on any request for money from the taxpayers.
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