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Michelle Obama - As bad as her husband; Signs of how things are up in her head.
Topic Started: Feb 20 2008, 01:51 AM (2,237 Views)
bjorenson
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Domestic Diva
Feb 24 2008, 08:13 PM
I am called "Intolerant" when the title of this particular forum topic is

"Michelle Obama - as bad as her husband"

Did I touch a nerve? Did I make you think about living in someone elses shoes but for a second and maybe a bit about perspective? Like how this country looks to someone that isn't the same as you?

I am not stuck in a box and I can and always have seen clearly and if you really knew me you really would be happy to have me on your side.

Democratic Socialist ideas and all.

Just wanted to point out the way your argument appeared to me.

If your problem was against title of the thread - or that Mrs. Obama was being unfairly criticized for her comments - I think you would have had a leg to stand on - and on, some level, I might have agreed with you. Instead you attacked all Christians. I don't think your argument or rhetoric stands up to any kind of scrutiny.

Having said that, I am willing to listen to what you have to say.
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Extra Olives
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livoniarocks
Feb 24 2008, 05:30 PM
Our government wasn't founded on the principles of running peoples lives, it was found on the principles of allowing people to live their lives (read the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution). The Federal Government's main purpose is to protect us in a Military fashion when needed.


The irony here is that the right wing claims to want less government in our lives, yet tries to regulate some of the most personal aspects of our lives ei: women's reproductive freedom, who one can and cannot marry, prayer in schools etc. Seems to me that if the government was founded on the concept of "allowing people to live their lives" as you put it, these would not be such huge issues for the Republican party.
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livoniarocks
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Feb 25 2008, 12:00 PM
livoniarocks
Feb 24 2008, 05:30 PM
Our government wasn't founded on the principles of running peoples lives, it was found on the principles of allowing people to live their lives (read the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution).  The Federal Government's main purpose is to protect us in a Military fashion when needed. 


The irony here is that the right wing claims to want less government in our lives, yet tries to regulate some of the most personal aspects of our lives ei: women's reproductive freedom, who one can and cannot marry, prayer in schools etc. Seems to me that if the government was founded on the concept of "allowing people to live their lives" as you put it, these would not be such huge issues for the Republican party.

Well, all of those things were supposed to be left up to the States. IMO. While I'm sure our opinions differ on women's reproductive rights, I do think that it is something that should be left up to each individual state, and not something that should have been decided by the Supreme Court.

Unfortunately many try to say they are for smaller government, but either make it bigger or do nothing to make it smaller. As far as 'Live their Lives', I meant in the idea of the "pursuit of happiness", etc.
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Deleted User
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How's this for controlling tactics?

Cox's ill-conceived license opinion sends yet another wrong message

Two days after Christmas, while Lansing was silent and largely deserted for the holiday season, Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox issued an opinion indicating that only permanent Michigan residents may get a driver's license. It appeared to say that people living here legally, but on a temporary basis, couldn't get one.

That opinion came in response to a request by state Rep. Rick Jones, R-Grand Ledge. It was clearly not produced overnight. The opinion was five single-spaced pages in length and was accompanied by 13 footnotes and case citations.

Nobody I talked with in preparing this column - and I talked with plenty of people - knew Cox's opinion was coming.

But it was a bombshell.

It provoked a round of furious finger-pointing with Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land, his fellow Republican. Her office was responsible for implementing Cox's complex ruling. It enraged the business community, which employs nearly 400,000 aliens legally in Michigan on valid visas. It infuriated state universities when they suddenly discovered that thousands of their students and faculty members living legally in Michigan could not get a driver's license.

It wounded economic developers across the state, who found themselves trying to explain that Michigan really didn't want to slam the door against international business expansion. And it provoked official protests from the governments of Japan and India.

All this from one little opinion by a state attorney general.

Of course, there was a political dimension to all this (surprise, surprise). The subject of illegal aliens has been one of consuming interest during the presidential campaign, especially to many Republicans, who want the border with Mexico closed and all illegals chucked out. (That is, unless they employ any on the sly.)

And the issue has more than just Republicans squirming. Sen. Hillary Clinton got herself into trouble during the presidential debates with a series of confusing and contradictory responses when asked whether illegal aliens should get driver's licenses.

Most Lansing sources I talked with figure that Cox was doing little more than pandering to the anti-immigrant wing of the GOP. I tried to ask Cox's PR guy about this, but my call was not returned.

In any event, once people returned to Lansing and the national press started saying that Michigan was now the toughest state in the country for aliens to get driver's licenses, all hell broke loose.

Jim Epolito, CEO of the Michigan Economic Development Corp., was politely furious. He fired off a letter to Cox noting that his troops "have been receiving frantic telephone calls, e-mails and letters from Michigan's international business community regarding this issue. Your opinion, issued with no advanced warning to the business community and with no opportunity for a hearing or public comment, has given the international business community the perception that Michigan is not open for business."

Epolito cited more than 375,000 employees who were in Michigan on perfectly legal visas, who could not effectively conduct their business without being able to drive a car.

And Birgit Klohs, the highly effective economic developer for Grand Rapids, told me she'd been on the phone at all hours trying to explain what was going on to angry foreign companies considering - at least, they had been - Michigan as a possible place for expansion.

Universities were just as dismayed. University of Michigan President Mary Sue Coleman pointed out that our universities are on the front line of bringing capable people to Michigan. I got a call from Linda Lim, the head of U-M's Southeast Asia Center, saying that she had an office full of students in tears.

Meanwhile, once the secretary of state's office started figuring out what the opinion really meant, they ran into all kinds of trouble trying to work their way through the complex opinion. Lawyers quickly pointed out that Cox's language appeared to mean that even U.S. citizens living in Michigan temporarily could not obtain a driver's license. Implementing rules were issued Jan. 22, and were promptly attacked by a suit from the American Civil Liberties Union.

Cox's office complained that the secretary of state "misread" the opinion, which is the legal equivalent of "I wrote it, but it's your problem to figure out what I meant."

Fingers were pointed back and forth all over Lansing, with feelings (mostly anger) running especially high between the attorney general's office and that of the secretary of state, both Republicans.

Meanwhile, Gov. Jennifer Granholm urged the Legislature to find a fix to overturn the Cox opinion. Acting with unusual speed and bipartisanship, both the House and Senate overwhelmingly passed legislation that allowed foreign citizens living temporarily in Michigan to obtain a driver's license. The governor promptly signed the bill last Friday.

But the damage has been done. With his state facing terrible economic times, with Michigan desperate for skilled immigrant workers and students, Cox's opinion succeeded in holding our foot up to be shot with our own pistol. What's sad, embarrassing and all-too predictable about this particular episode of pandering-gone-wrong is that it was totally, and completely, unnecessary.

Phil Power is founder and president of The Center for Michigan, a think tank based in Ann Arbor. The opinions expressed here are Power's own and do not represent official views of The Center. He welcomes reader comment at ppower@thecenterformichigan.net.


Originally published February 21, 2008


http://hometownlife.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...ON/802210801/11
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Domestic Diva
Feb 24 2008, 08:13 PM
I am called "Intolerant" when the title of this particular forum topic is

"Michelle Obama - as bad as her husband"

Did I touch a nerve? Did I make you think about living in someone elses shoes but for a second and maybe a bit about perspective? Like how this country looks to someone that isn't the same as you?

I am not stuck in a box and I can and always have seen clearly and if you really knew me you really would be happy to have me on your side.

Democratic Socialist ideas and all.

If that's the case, tell us who you are. ;)
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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livoniarocks
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Feb 25 2008, 08:53 PM
Domestic Diva
Feb 24 2008, 08:13 PM
I am called "Intolerant" when the title of this particular forum topic is

"Michelle Obama - as bad as her husband"

Did I touch a nerve? Did I make you think about living in someone elses shoes but for a second and maybe a bit about perspective? Like how this country looks to someone that isn't the same as you?

I am not stuck in a box and I can and always have seen clearly and if you really knew me you really would be happy to have me on your side.

Democratic Socialist ideas and all.

If that's the case, tell us who you are. ;)

Nicely said Reformer!
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FWIW
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Today is the anniversary of the first bombing of the WTC
Feb 26, 1993 - A bomb built by a group of Islamic extremists exploded in the parking garage of New York's World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000.

When Clinton was offered the ''capture'' of UBL he turned it down. The man had/has no backbone. There were other bombings of American concerns that he did nothing about. For years he sat around the White House not going after terrorists as fervently as he should have. This is typical of democrats and how they don't protect Americans. Yes, the WTC was attacked under President Bush's watch but it was Clinton that was not proactive for years when he should have been. The Cole was also bombed under his watch and sailors died. He didn't do a thing about that either. The man has no character, no guts and no true accomplishments and a pathetic legacy. A typical democrat politician.
Americans should be a bit edgy if there's a democrat elected to the White House.
They are weak on defense
They love redistribution of YOUR money
Class warfare
Social Engineering
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