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| American Cars/ Foriegn Made Cars; Which is Which? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 15 2008, 01:05 AM (1,861 Views) | |
| On The Go | Feb 17 2008, 11:23 PM Post #21 |
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Don't forget that the American Car Companies employ far more Americans than any of the others. |
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| Otis B. | Feb 17 2008, 11:31 PM Post #22 |
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Excellent point. I figured this would be assumed, but you know what they say... "Today, roughly 840,000 Americans work for the Big Three auto companies combined, and about 60,000 work for Japanese, German, and South Korean carmakers." Irony of ironies, I did a search to find Big 3 employment figures and came across this article. http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-64...de-America.html |
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| Deleted User | Feb 18 2008, 12:03 AM Post #23 |
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Ford should have been putting money into research and development, instead of handing out $4000 dollar profit sharing checks. Compete or die. Ford is going to be buried in their short sighted, SUV profit margin induced coffin. |
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| Rocky | Feb 18 2008, 12:14 AM Post #24 |
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I can't disagree with that sentiment at all that the auto industry has been good to this state. We hung our hat on it and are also paying the price for it now, much like Pennsylvania did many years ago with the steel industry. Cities that used to thrive now can't even be found on a map in that state, unless you've been through that you have no idea. The Big 3's golden years are also part of the reason why this area has the massive foreclosure and housing problems that exist as overpaid unskilled workers no longer can afford their McMansions now that the overtime has gone away. But all that aside, you are correct that there were many years of great wealth and prosperity as a result of the auto industry, benefiting many retailers, banks, and other businesses. Livonia in particular has a high concentration of Ford employees and Ford's struggles may have something to do with the declining enrollment in our school district and changing demographics in the community. Note the proliferation of dollar stores lately. I was talking about this us vs. them subject this weekend with a guy I know (displaced US auto worker now employed by Toyota) and he pointed out that this area is not just comprised of Big 3 auto workers but many foreign companies also located their facilities in the area to benefit from the talent pool of auto engineers and suppliers. He mentioned that not only is the Toyota tech center in the area along with several Toyota subsidiaries such as Toyoda Gosei in Troy, Toyota Boshoku in Novi and Toyota Financial in Livonia, but also the Nissan tech center in Farmington Hills and several other foreign manufactuers and suppliers (Yazaki, Akebono, and other companies that sounded like sneezes). The Big 3 are not non-profit charities, they are for-profit companies who are in a very competitive global marketplace. Sometimes companies win, sometimes they lose. Do I buy their products, yes. Do I try to support the home team when practical, yes. Do I need to "give back" to the Big 3, hell no. The company that gives me the product I desire is the one that wins my dollar. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 18 2008, 01:06 AM Post #25 |
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Rocky, I agree with you for the most part, but you need to be a little more specific about what area you are talking about. Are you speaking about Livonia? Or just Ford workers that have children in Livonia schools? I really don't know of many people that have McMansions in Livonia. I know people in Plymouth have that problem, but they don't have the declining enrollment troubles we do. We all have to compete, whether it is Ford, GM, Honda, LPS or P-CCS. |
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| Mr.Bean | Feb 18 2008, 01:27 AM Post #26 |
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What's that got to do with anything?? They still employ Americans in good paying jobs. |
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| Rocky | Feb 18 2008, 10:29 AM Post #27 |
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I referred to Livonia's problem when I said that there was a great number of auto workers in the city who are now unemployed for one reason or another and that may be a factor in Livonia's declining enrollment figures. A look at city-data.com will show that Livonia has a high number of workers who are engineers and work in the "transportation equipment" field which I am assuming means auto industry. The comment about the proliferation of McMansions as new home construction around the region and people who are overbuying into houses they can not afford is just that, a regional issue not specifically Livonia, although NW Livonia is part of it along with Plymouth, Canton, Northville, Novi, and other "growth" areas. |
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| devonairedad | Feb 18 2008, 12:10 PM Post #28 |
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Well, I'm not sure how recent these employment figures are, but here are some statistics from the Japanese Consulate in Detroit in their 2006 business survey (Japanese Direct Investment Survey 2006) regarding Japanese employment of Americans in Michigan and Ohio (their jursidiction); State....................Michigan..........Ohio.............Total Facilities...............410.................356...............766 Total....................37,540............64,303...........101,843 Manufacturing.......16,992............40,257..........57,249 Of these jobs, 1,608 in Ohio and 2,270 in Michigan are actual Japanese employees working here for 2-5 years on trade visas. Since we are only looking at manufacturing jobs (automotive sector), that leaves 57,249 - (1,608 + 2,270) = 53,371 Americans employed by Japanese automotive companies and suppliers in Michigan and Ohio. This leaves, based on the quote above, 6,629 Americans employed by Japanese companies in the rest of the country, as well as the German and South Korean car makers. Keeping in mind that most Japanese, German and South Korean automotive companies have their large assembly plants outside of our area, and that means that the productivity of those meager 6,629 Americans must be amazing, or other parts of our country are swarming with thousands of "non-American" workers... In reality, Japan is the single largest foreign employee and trading partner for Michigan, not counting NAFTA (Canada and Mexico). Japanese companies account for 28% of all foreign-owned companies locating in Oakland county, with Germany second at 22% (stats from before the Daimler-Chrysler divorce: see Oakland County International Investment). Maybe it's time for Wayne county to wake up at work at encouraging further Japanese investment here, rather than have Ficano jetsetting over to China all the time. Who would you rather develop better trade relations with: a country with an unstable non-representative government, with huge population demographic problems, a massive military, very little legal protections and poor records on protecting international property rights and human rights (how they abuse their wage slaves is a whole nother topic); or a country with the second largest GDP (about 1/2 of the US), high living standards, representative government, strong consumer demand and the highest rate of intellectual property and patent generation in the world (they overtook the US in the 1970s: see World Intellectual Property Organization and Patent grants by nationality). The time we stop beating the "buy American" drum and start developing a better climate for investment for outsiders from other states and other countries, is the time we will see a turnaround in this one-state recession and a confirmation of Detroit as the driving force behind automotive and technological innovation that created our economy in the first place. |
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| Mr.Bean | Feb 18 2008, 12:54 PM Post #29 |
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Well, the Japanese automakers are obviously giving people what they want if they are hurting the American companies. Maybe the American auto makers should check it out??? |
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| Rocky | Feb 18 2008, 01:36 PM Post #30 |
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Agreed. GM has succumbed to the foreign makers by rebranding foreign models as GM cars. The highly acclaimed "new" designs of the Saturn division are nothing more than Saturn badging slapped onto Opel (German) and Daewoo (Korean) models. For example the restyled Saturn Vue is a Daewoo Winstorm. The Saturn Aura is an Opel Vectra. The Web site The Truth About Cars referred to the Aura as "...an American-built Opel that looks like a Japanese copy of a German car." The Pontiac GTO (though a US failure) was an Australian-built Holden Monaro and the new Pontiac G8 is a Holden Commodore. And of course they are bringing the European best selling Astra model over to the US and not even bothering to change the name of it. I can't see how anyone at GM can keep a straight face and yell "Buy American" at this point, but I don't think they are. I think they realize they are competing in a global market and they are embracing it, hopefully that will make them successful. Ford and Chrysler don't seem to have figured that out yet. |
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| BoaterDan | Feb 18 2008, 02:18 PM Post #31 |
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| Rocky | Feb 18 2008, 05:33 PM Post #32 |
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Yes Boater, Opel and Daewoo are owned by GM which is why GM is using their designers and engineers instead of their domestic counterparts. That in itself should make the Buy American crowd happy to know (sarcasm). You are correct that the CTS is getting rave media reviews domestically, as is John McCain if that says anything. I have driven in one myself and found it to be a nice vehicle, but not something I would purchase. I am not sure Cadillac has the foreign competition shaking in their boots however, considering if you check out the overseas car critics you will know that Cadillac is not highly regarded by our European and Asian counterparts: http://www.topgear.com/drives/CO/A1/new/ |
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| Bill Williamson | Feb 18 2008, 06:11 PM Post #33 |
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Nascar fans: Does Toyota's 3rd and 4th place finishes at Daytona help improve foreign car perception, nationally? 6 of the top 20 were Toyota's with 8 Dodges, 2 Ford and 4 Chevy's rounding out the top 20 finishers. - 1 7 12 Ryan Newman Alltel---------Dodge 2 43 2 Kurt Busch Miller Lite-------------Dodge 3 6 20 Tony Stewart Home Depot--------Toyota 4 24 18 Kyle Busch M&M's----------------Toyota 5 5 41 Reed Sorenson Target--------------Dodge 6 35 19 Elliott Sadler Best Buy-------------Dodge 7 10 9 Kasey Kahne Budweiser-----------Dodge 8 26 7 Robby Gordon Jim Beam----------Dodge 9 3 88 Dale Earnhardt Jr. AMP/National Guard---Chevrolet 10 18 16 Greg Biffle 3M-------------------------Ford 11 13 43 Bobby Labonte Cheerios-----------Dodge 12 23 83 Brian Vickers Red Bull------------Toyota 13 36 31 Jeff Burton AT&T Mobility----------Chevrolet 14 16 29 Kevin Harvick Shell-Pennzoil-----Chevrolet 15 19 77 Sam Hornish Jr. Mobil 1-------------Dodge 16 20 44 Dale Jarrett UPS-------------------Toyota 17 4 11 Denny Hamlin FedEx----------------Toyota 18 42 00 David Reutimann Aaron's-----------Toyota 19 11 99 Carl Edwards Office Depot------------Ford 20 25 1 Martin Truex Jr. Bass Pro Shops----Chevrolet |
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| BoaterDan | Feb 18 2008, 06:15 PM Post #34 |
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Would it be surprising that the Europeans are not as objective towards a caddy as our rags have been towards their imports? Not to me. Good point about McCain though.
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| t84bird | Feb 18 2008, 10:12 PM Post #35 |
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Sorry, I will always drive a Honda Accord as long as it goes 200K with nothing but routine maintenance and gets me 30mpg. Why would I want to spend the same amount or more on an inferior product just so someone can make a $100k sleeping on the job.(Yes UAW workers sleep on the job, I know a few and they like to brag about this fact, and NO I am not saying ALL sleep on the job.) |
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| shamu | Feb 19 2008, 12:31 AM Post #36 |
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Lots of cars can have that mileage with proper maintenance. My ford van has 130,000 miles on it and it's still running perfectly. Looks great, too. My brother had a econoline that he finally had to replace at 300,000 miles. I would never drive a foreign car living in Michigan. (Well, actually I wouldn't drive one anyway.) |
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| Otis B. | Feb 19 2008, 07:41 AM Post #37 |
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All of you foreign car lovers literally make me sick. I have nothing else to say except that if you drive a foreign car, I hope you and your family burn to death in it because that's what you deserve. |
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| FlowerPower | Feb 19 2008, 08:39 AM Post #38 |
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Wow - that's classy.
I agree with you. I've bought American over and over again and had nothing but problems with every make and model we tried. We decided to try Toyota 2 years ago and have had no problems whatsoever. We've got everything we wanted on the car for a great price, it runs well, and no problems. Compare this with our US made more expensive, less gadgets and non stop problem car. |
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| Otis B. | Feb 19 2008, 08:50 AM Post #39 |
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I think it's a lot classier than pissing on my own state. Oh, and the quality gap is a myth. Check out the JD Power survey and you'll see that American cars rank right up there with foreign cars. Not that it matters, because most of you seem to believe in myths such as those about foreign cars, the quality of Livonia schools, etc. I can't argue with [morons]. |
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| BoaterDan | Feb 19 2008, 08:50 AM Post #40 |
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I guess here in Michigan this needs to be added to religion and politics. Otis B., just out of curiosity - what brand of stereo do you have in your living room?
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