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| American Cars/ Foriegn Made Cars; Which is Which? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 15 2008, 01:05 AM (1,860 Views) | |
| FWIW | Feb 15 2008, 01:05 AM Post #1 |
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Our state should almost be a tax-free zone for any and all businesses that want to stay here or come here to start new businesses. They should not be penalized for taking a chance with this state. Bringing businesses here to employ our citizens should be rewarded by not taxing them. And BTW, why don't you all try to buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler? Those companies and people are already here in our state and have been for many, many years. Do any of you have a business here in town? Would you like us to do business with you? Or would you rather we do business with another company from around the world? Unfortunately many of the people don't realize that pretty soon this state is going to have another round of unemployed, possibly welfare cases on our hands. A lot of people are going to be losing their jobs and won't find any jobs. |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 15 2008, 07:43 AM Post #2 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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Unless they move. |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| Otis B. | Feb 15 2008, 08:24 AM Post #3 |
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"And BTW, why don't you all try to buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler? Those companies and people are already here in our state and have been for many, many years." Right. Freaking. On. I will NEVER understand why certain residents of Michigan choose to drive anything other than a Big 3 product. Especially after everything we've been through in the past 5 years. It is something that effects everyone in the state, whether they are a Big 3 employee or not. If you can't see that, you're blind. And BTW, neither my wife or I are tied in any way to the auto industry. |
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| FWIW | Feb 15 2008, 02:31 PM Post #4 |
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Good for you and congrats on your choice of cars (American!) We are not tied to any of them either but we ARE tied to the U.S.A. and Michigan in a BIG way. It's family and it's serious. If people don't see what their off-brand buying habits have done to our economy then we are in a lot trouble. I'd love to know if any of them have a business that relies on Americans buying from them or do they rely strictly on foreign customers. If they rely on America for their livelihood I'd love to pull MY support from them and see how they love it. I already don NOT support ''off-brand'' cars. Buy products that support the American workers in America. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 15 2008, 10:13 PM Post #5 |
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The Cars.com American-Made Index What Are the Top American-Made Cars? While Ford and GM continue their reign on the American-Made Index, the long-running No. 2 car, the Toyota Camry, has fallen completely off the list and, just like last time, Chrysler is still missing from the Index. Toyota, the index's lone foreign-based automaker, had a mixed year. Spurred by banner sales, the Texas- and Indiana-built Toyota Tundra charged to fourth place, up from 10th. The truck's solid domestic-parts content rating, up to 80 percent for 2008 from 75 percent for 2007, helped its cause. But, as mentioned, the best-selling Camry is gone. Blame the two-door Camry Solara, which Toyota groups with the Camry in its sales results. It's the Camry's millstone this year, with its domestic-parts content rating dropping to 65 percent from 80 percent from the '07 to the '08 models. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong said via email that the details behind such figures "are usually not made public." (For more info on how we compile the Index, check out the Editor's Note at the bottom of this story.) The Camry wasn't the only car beset by a lower domestic-parts content rating. We predicted in June's AMI that the Ford Focus would be a strong contender, with a restyled model set to jump-start the nameplate's sales. No dice — the '08 Focus dropped to 65 percent from 75 percent in domestic-parts content, and the car no longer makes the cut. The Ford Escape, meanwhile, saw the steepest domestic-parts content drop of all, from 90 percent for the 2007 model to just 65 percent for the restyled '08. Ford spokesman Wes Sherwood couldn't give a reason for the drop, saying only that Ford "is very proud of the domestically produced parts that go into our vehicles ... but there are changes from year to year." That 65 percent rating affected the Escape's ranking last time, but strong sales still secured it a ninth-place finish in the July index. With other contenders dropping out this time, the Escape sailed up into seventh place. With those higher-domestic-parts-content '07s leaving dealer lots, however, don't expect to see the Escape in next July's index. The Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado also saw lower domestic content ratings, but both remain America's best-selling vehicles — by comfortable margins. The Ohio-built Chevy Cobalt posted excellent results, moving up from being the country's 14th-best-selling car last spring to the 12th best-seller today. The '08 model continues to use a high percentage of domestic parts, and it effectively replaces the Camry as the AMI's highest-ranked passenger car. Chevrolet Cobalt Other old-timers also made comebacks. The Michigan-built Pontiac G6 retained a domestic content rating in the mid-80s for 2008, improving to fifth place, and the Ford Explorer held the line on sales to forge its way back into 10th. Thanks to decent sales since last spring, the aging Chevy TrailBlazer returned to eighth place. So where are Honda and Nissan — and, um, Chrysler? Like last time, Chrysler's best-selling Dodge Ram fell just short of the 75 percent domestic-parts content rating cutoff, and most of the automaker's popular minivans are assembled in Canada, also disqualifying them from consideration. We had high hopes for the Ohio-built Jeep Wrangler, but the '08 model has considerably less domestic content than the previous version. Honda and Nissan build boatloads of cars stateside, but none of them have enough domestic content to qualify. That could change, though. The Honda Civic saw a boom in domestic-parts content this year, up to 70 percent for '08 models from 55 percent for '07 — the highest increase for any model we studied. Honda spokesman Chuck Schifsky said he didn't know exactly why the content jumped, but he speculated that it could be because Honda purchased some major components from a U.S. source instead of a Japanese one. If the trend continues, the Civic could be Honda's ticket into the AMI within a year or two. What about iconic American cars like the Ford Mustang, Chevy Impala and Chrysler 300? Index placers, they are not. The Michigan-built Mustang has a disappointing 65 percent domestic-parts content rating, while the 300 and Impala are built in Canada. What's more, America's beloved retro hatchbacks, the soon-to-be-discontinued Chrysler PT Cruiser and Chevy HHR, are built in Mexico. Not that import automakers fare any better: Hyundai's Alabama-built Sonata has just 37 percent domestic content, while the Ohio-built Honda CR-V comes in at just 10 percent. That portrait of urban frugality, the Toyota Prius? It's imported from Japan. Editor's Note In today's global economy, there's no easy way to determine just how American a car is. Many cars built in the U.S., for example, are assembled using parts that come from somewhere else. Some cars assembled in the U.S. from strictly American-made parts don't sell very well, meaning that fewer Americans are building those models. Cars.com's American-Made Index highlights the cars that are built here, have the highest amount of domestic parts, and are bought in the largest numbers by Americans. There are a few options for determining a car's domestic-parts content. We went with the figure that appears alongside the window sticker of new cars as a result of the American Automobile Labeling Act, enacted in 1994. The AALA mandates that virtually every new car display the percentage, by cost, of its parts that originated in the U.S. and Canada. We deemed cars with a domestic-parts content rating of 75 percent or higher eligible for the index. As consumers compare domestic and foreign automakers, many are making their choice based on how good or bad a car's gas mileage is. To see how domestic and foreign automakers match up in federal fuel efficiency ratings, read our story on corporate average fuel economy linked below. http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_cont...ican-made-index |
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| Rocky | Feb 15 2008, 11:09 PM Post #6 |
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Keep in mind the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan/Lincoln MKZ is nothing more than a Mazda 6, has 50% or less American content and is assembled outside of the United States. They are classified as foreign vehicles by the American Automobile Labeling Act. Along with these other "All American" models which are less American than a Toyota Camry: Cadillac Escalade Chevrolet Aveo Chevrolet Equinox Chevrolet HHR Chevrolet Impala Chevrolet Tahoe Chrysler 300 Chrysler PT Cruiser Dodge Charger Ford Escape Hybrid Ford Focus Ford Mustang and I could go on... I'm all for supporting the home team, but in today's global auto market you can't tell just by looking at the logo on the front grill. Toyota, Honda and their counterparts are employing a heck of a lot of Americans whether you like it or not. Don't forget that until just recently Chrysler was a subsidiary of a German company as well. |
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| On The Go | Feb 15 2008, 11:30 PM Post #7 |
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Just remember, that a lot of American engineering and R&D go into the American Cars. Also all profits of American Cars come back into our economy unlike companies form foreign companies. |
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| Vanna White | Feb 15 2008, 11:38 PM Post #8 |
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You are absolutely correct, Rocky. Check out cars.com's "American Made" index: http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?se...tory=amMade1207 What Are the Top American-Made Cars? Cars.com's American-Made Index rates vehicles built and bought in the U.S. Factors include sales, where the car's parts are made and whether the car is assembled in the U.S. Models that have been discontinued are disqualified, as are those with a domestic-parts content rating below 75 percent. Rank Make/Model U.S. Assembly Location Last Rank 1. Ford F-150* Claycomo, Mo.; Dearborn, Mich. 1 2. Chevrolet Cobalt Lordstown, Ohio 4 3. Chevrolet Silverado 1500* Fort Wayne, Ind.; Pontiac, Mich. 3 4. Toyota Tundra Princeton, Ind.; San Antonio, Texas 10 5. Pontiac G6 Orion, Mich. 8 6. Toyota Sienna Princeton, Ind. 6 7. Ford Escape** Claycomo, Mo. 9 8. Chevrolet TrailBlazer Moraine, Ohio - 9. Chevrolet Malibu Kansas City, Kan. 7 10. Ford Explorer/Sport Trac Louisville, Ky.; St. Louis - *Rankings based on estimated sales breakouts and/or production data. **Excludes hybrid. Sources: Automaker data, Automotive News, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration While Ford and GM continue their reign on the American-Made Index, the long-running No. 2 car, the Toyota Camry, has fallen completely off the list and, just like last time, Chrysler is still missing from the Index. Toyota, the index's lone foreign-based automaker, had a mixed year. Spurred by banner sales, the Texas- and Indiana-built Toyota Tundra charged to fourth place, up from 10th. The truck's solid domestic-parts content rating, up to 80 percent for 2008 from 75 percent for 2007, helped its cause. But, as mentioned, the best-selling Camry is gone. Blame the two-door Camry Solara, which Toyota groups with the Camry in its sales results. It's the Camry's millstone this year, with its domestic-parts content rating dropping to 65 percent from 80 percent from the '07 to the '08 models. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong said via email that the details behind such figures "are usually not made public." (For more info on how we compile the Index, check out the Editor's Note at the bottom of this story.) The Camry wasn't the only car beset by a lower domestic-parts content rating. We predicted in June's AMI that the Ford Focus would be a strong contender, with a restyled model set to jump-start the nameplate's sales. No dice — the '08 Focus dropped to 65 percent from 75 percent in domestic-parts content, and the car no longer makes the cut. The Ford Escape, meanwhile, saw the steepest domestic-parts content drop of all, from 90 percent for the 2007 model to just 65 percent for the restyled '08. Ford spokesman Wes Sherwood couldn't give a reason for the drop, saying only that Ford "is very proud of the domestically produced parts that go into our vehicles ... but there are changes from year to year." That 65 percent rating affected the Escape's ranking last time, but strong sales still secured it a ninth-place finish in the July index. With other contenders dropping out this time, the Escape sailed up into seventh place. With those higher-domestic-parts-content '07s leaving dealer lots, however, don't expect to see the Escape in next July's index. The Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado also saw lower domestic content ratings, but both remain America's best-selling vehicles — by comfortable margins. The Ohio-built Chevy Cobalt posted excellent results, moving up from being the country's 14th-best-selling car last spring to the 12th best-seller today. The '08 model continues to use a high percentage of domestic parts, and it effectively replaces the Camry as the AMI's highest-ranked passenger car. Other old-timers also made comebacks. The Michigan-built Pontiac G6 retained a domestic content rating in the mid-80s for 2008, improving to fifth place, and the Ford Explorer held the line on sales to forge its way back into 10th. Thanks to decent sales since last spring, the aging Chevy TrailBlazer returned to eighth place. So where are Honda and Nissan — and, um, Chrysler? Like last time, Chrysler's best-selling Dodge Ram fell just short of the 75 percent domestic-parts content rating cutoff, and most of the automaker's popular minivans are assembled in Canada, also disqualifying them from consideration. We had high hopes for the Ohio-built Jeep Wrangler, but the '08 model has considerably less domestic content than the previous version. Honda and Nissan build boatloads of cars stateside, but none of them have enough domestic content to qualify. That could change, though. The Honda Civic saw a boom in domestic-parts content this year, up to 70 percent for '08 models from 55 percent for '07 — the highest increase for any model we studied. Honda spokesman Chuck Schifsky said he didn't know exactly why the content jumped, but he speculated that it could be because Honda purchased some major components from a U.S. source instead of a Japanese one. If the trend continues, the Civic could be Honda's ticket into the AMI within a year or two. What about iconic American cars like the Ford Mustang, Chevy Impala and Chrysler 300? Index placers, they are not. The Michigan-built Mustang has a disappointing 65 percent domestic-parts content rating, while the 300 and Impala are built in Canada. What's more, America's beloved retro hatchbacks, the soon-to-be-discontinued Chrysler PT Cruiser and Chevy HHR, are built in Mexico. Not that import automakers fare any better: Hyundai's Alabama-built Sonata has just 37 percent domestic content, while the Ohio-built Honda CR-V comes in at just 10 percent. That portrait of urban frugality, the Toyota Prius? It's imported from Japan. Editor's Note In today's global economy, there's no easy way to determine just how American a car is. Many cars built in the U.S., for example, are assembled using parts that come from somewhere else. Some cars assembled in the U.S. from strictly American-made parts don't sell very well, meaning that fewer Americans are building those models. Cars.com's American-Made Index highlights the cars that are built here, have the highest amount of domestic parts, and are bought in the largest numbers by Americans. There are a few options for determining a car's domestic-parts content. We went with the figure that appears alongside the window sticker of new cars as a result of the American Automobile Labeling Act, enacted in 1994. The AALA mandates that virtually every new car display the percentage, by cost, of its parts that originated in the U.S. and Canada. We deemed cars with a domestic-parts content rating of 75 percent or higher eligible for the index. Hmmm.... now I am going to be politically incorrect. My Toyota, which is also the highest rated in it's class for both safety and reliability, is on the list. It has over 75% American made parts. Is your car on the list? |
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| Mr.Bean | Feb 15 2008, 11:44 PM Post #9 |
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It's funny, my Honda Odyssey had more American content than my current Chrysler Town And Country....which was made in Canada. |
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| IDK | Feb 16 2008, 08:57 AM Post #10 |
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But all the profit from your purchase goes outside the US. |
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| Otis B. | Feb 16 2008, 12:38 PM Post #11 |
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Exactly. All of you Honda and Toyota owners that scream "but the parts were made in the U.S." are nothing more than useful idiots for foreign automakers. At the end of the day, your money is going to a FOREIGN company that is not in the business of employing Americans. All of the manufacturing that Honda, Toyota, et al. do in the U.S. is nothing more than window dressing. Whenenough idiot Americans buy their vehicles and they control the market, they'll pull the plug on those factories faster than you can say "outsourcing." Mr. Bean, do you honestly think that the state of Michigan would be in the shape its in if more people bought American cars? It is an undeniable FACT that the majority of job losses in our state are the result of Americans shunning the Big 3 automakers. All of you that own a foreign vehicle -- SHAME ON YOU! You have absolutely NO right to complain about the state of our economy because YOU have contributed to its ruin. |
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| Vanna White | Feb 16 2008, 12:41 PM Post #12 |
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You can buy Honda or Toyota stock if you want to. Then you will get a share of that profit. At one time the push to only buy American cars made a certain amount of sense, but it is too late now. There is no way that will "save" the auto industry, because the overwhelming majority of consumers are going to buy what they like the most based on style, price, reliability and other factors regardless of what company makes it, where it is assembled or what percentage of parts are domestic. The consumers of automobiles work hard for their money, too, and they want the best their money can buy. The only way the big 3 will get healthier is to make the best products at the right prices so that more consumers want to buy them. They have no choice now but to work hard to compete on a global scale. I certainly hope they can become more successful, since the economy of this area is so tied to the auto industry, but when it is time to make the huge purchase of an automoblie, I am going to decide what kind best meets my family's needs (minivan, SUV, sedan, pickup, etc,) and then I am going to look at safety testing data, history of reliability, etc. I'll drive the top 2 or 3 and then pick the one the seems the best. After all, it's a HUGE purchase and I want the best I can get for my money. |
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| Rocky | Feb 16 2008, 02:42 PM Post #13 |
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The myth that the profit from a foreign car maker goes to a foreign country and the profit from an American car maker stays in America is nothing but a myth. With the exception of Chrysler in recent months, most car makers are public companies and are owned by stockholders. You can purchase GM and Ford stock as easily as you can Toyota and Honda. The profits go to shareholders, and the shareholders can be anywhere around the world for any public company. Should all of us who purchased Chrysler products during its time as a German subsidiary return those vehicles because the profits were going to Germany? Keep in mind that the only thing that kept GM from having even a worse year was their record sales in foreign countries with GM's Astra being the best selling sedan in the EU if I am not mistaken. Should all those countries adopt "Buy German" or "Buy Japanese" campaigns that would further erode Ford, GM and Chrysler? |
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| Summertime | Feb 16 2008, 03:23 PM Post #14 |
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Well, Otis, the foriegn car companies are giving people jobs. Including my husband. And before anyone goes on their soapbox, let me tell you, my husband was unemployed for 13 months, no health insurance and suffered a heart attack. We could not even get our son on MI Child, because my husband made to much on unemployment. So when a foriegn car company employs my husband we take it. We do drive Chysler and Ford cars but if I could I sure would drive a car from the company that gave my husband a job. I would drive it proudly. Oh and by the way, there are very few jobs available right now in my husbands field (IT) at the big 3, however the company my husband is at right now can't keep up with work, they are hiring more and more people all the time. After my husbands heart attack, they put my son on MI Child. When my husband got the job and insurance we called to have our son taken off the MI Child, and they told us to just keep him on it. To much paper work to take him off. Nice huh? |
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| Bill Williamson | Feb 16 2008, 03:42 PM Post #15 |
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I'm not a corporate tax expert but it would seem to me that profits to shareholders would be whats left after these companies pay their taxes. I don't know how much in US tax dollars the forgiegn car companies contribute directly from their profits but the witholding SS and Medicare contributions paid out for their American employees sure do help. |
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| Mr.Bean | Feb 16 2008, 04:21 PM Post #16 |
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And Americans have jobs...... |
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| Mr.Bean | Feb 16 2008, 04:23 PM Post #17 |
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I laugh at the "buy American" crowd. I buy what I see as best. I don't care where it's made. Honda, Toyota and others employ Americans. To buy something just because it's made in the US is plain foolish. |
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| Bill Williamson | Feb 16 2008, 05:27 PM Post #18 |
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With all the talk about CAFE' standards, CO2 emissions and penalties being stiffened, will foreign car companies be penalized the same as the big 3? What do you think of this possible source of state tax revenue? - I do need an engineers out there to tell me how much CO2 is created for each gallon of gas, diesel and ethanol burned as fuel? Also, can a health care person verify that we create 35 oz of CO2 each day breathing? - I want to use this info to validate this everyday math problem: Just for fun of course. - With 16, 8oz. cups of liquid in a gallon, how many pounds does a gallon weigh. 16 cups x 8 oz = 128 oz divided by 16 oz / pound = 8 pounds - An automotive company's leasing department has calculated that the average car is driven 1000 miles per month. It is noted that this company can reap huge profits for each mile traveled beyond this average. With it's vehicles averaging 20 MPG how many gallons does the average lease vehicle burn each month? - 1000 miles per month divided by 20 miles per gallon = 50 gallons of fuel. If half the mass (weight) of fuel burn is converted into CO2 how much CO2 does the average car create each month? 50 gallons x 8 pounds per gallon = 400 pounds divided in half = 200 pounds of CO2. - It is my understanding that each of us creates about 35 ounces of CO2 each day by BREATHING. Which is the greater source of tax revenue for the global warming crowd, the average automobile or a family of 4? - 4 people x 35 oz x 30 days a month = 4200 oz divided by 16 oz per pound = 262 pounds of CO2 exhaled each month. - How much more CO2 does your family create than its car. 262 minus 200 divided by 262 = 23% more - The automobile is a horrible hazard that it may soon be subjected to carbon offsets. Soon we can penalize an average family of 4 for producing 23% more CO2 than the car in it's driveway? The CO2 tax revenue your child and some soccer teammates generate, breathing, could soon be greater than the taxes generated by the car that takes them to the field. - Sportsmen need to purchase a license to hunt. Will we soon need to pay an activity tax to offset our breathing. The regulation of heavy breathing could be used as a form of birth control to reduce population growth too. This could be the needed means for uniform world wide government action. Reducing the world's head count can help keep "Greenland" under ice! Big brother watching, don't hold your breath! |
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| Otis B. | Feb 17 2008, 10:29 PM Post #19 |
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Funny. No one has addressed my point that Michigan is where it is right now because of how much the Big 3 is struggling. So I'm going to assume that everyone in the "buy foreign" crowd is ok with the state of our economy. Just wait. If you think its bad right now, wait until one of the Big 3 goes under. I suggest you all take a drive through Flint and take a long look around. That is what SE Michigan will resemble should the automakers fail. I agree we need to diversify our economy, but it is impossible to bring in an industry to sustain us as much as the automakers have. So, like it or not, we need the Big 3 to be successful in order for MI to thrive again. Whether you work in the auto industry or not (I do not) the Big 3 has been good to all. The Big 3 automakers employ workers at good wages, contribute a great deal to local charities, pump tens of millions of taxes into the state, and sponsor events and festivals you honda-driving soccer moms take the kiddies to. It's about time we recognized this and started giving back. |
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| Otis B. | Feb 17 2008, 10:36 PM Post #20 |
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It is not a myth. It's called a trade deficit and it's the main reason why the value of the U.S. dollar is in the gutter. |
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