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Special Education; Split topic from One-year contract......
Topic Started: Feb 9 2008, 06:57 PM (1,505 Views)
LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 04:58 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 04:21 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 03:00 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 09:13 PM
Here is one by LPS Reformer

The costs to educate a special education student exceeds those to educate a general education student, and exceeds the money received from the state. Thus an increase in special education students hurts the bottom line for LPS. Both the decrease in general ed students, and the increase in special ed students are negatives for the district's financial health.

I think calling sp needs kids NEGATIVES is bashing in my book.

I am going back to the ORGINAL statement you made on another thread. Put any spin on it you want, but the FACT is YOU said it.


I have read your posts. I am NOT assuming anything. The fact remains that both you and Mr Lessard said that the Sp ed kids "drain" and have a NEGATIVE effect on our budget.

Are there custodians in the closed buildings FULL TIME, or are you assuming that? I would expect LPS to make sure the buildings are being checked and maintained to some degree. If they weren't you would be the first to complain, right? Are there kitchen workers in those closed buildiings? Secretaries? Specials teachers? Special ed teachers?

Adams will be reopening as a special ed preschool building and I couldn't be happier after Perrinville. What will your issue with that be? I am sure AA will want Perrinville back at some point.

As to spending money on Sp ed. Goes to show ya what ya know. It's MANDATED. If a child needs a lift bus, LPS must provide one. If there is a child in the district that must ride in an air conditioned bus per IEP/504, then LPS MUST provide it.

Quit backpedling and admit you said the sp ed kids are a NEGATIVE. Sheesh

I stand by the statement.

However, my entire point in bringing it up was to point out we are trending LOWER in general ED students, and higher in SE students. The increase in SE students, makes the financial effect of the LI appear less than it is, by covering up some of the loss in GE students.

It is a fact that an increase in SE students increases district expenses greater than the increase in revenue. It is a simple fact. Just like water flowing down hill, or the sun rising in the east.

What needs to be done, is to recognize the true nature of our financial condition, and cut spending to live within our means.

You can't correct our financial mess, unless you are willing to admit how bad it is.

However, if it makes you feel better to use me as your emotional puching bag, then enjoy. ;)

You just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself showing your intolerance and bigotry against sp needs kids.

Let's pull a couple of examples;

Autism and Asperger's syndrome. Right now the occurance is 1 in every 150 births and it is growing at the rate of 10 - 17% a year. There are more sp ed kids right there. In addition, the trend is going to be mandated that the MAJORITY of these kids are going to be pulled OUT of center programs and mainstreamed into regular classrooms, so you better warn your children that they are going to eventually have a student in their class that NEGATIVELY will impact their learning budget. Acorns don't fall far from trees, ya know.

Another example is the rate of survival of very premature infants. While, thankfully some don't require any special services, many, many do. Since we have the technology to save these infants, we are seeing more kids with language, gross motor and fine motor delays.

Now, those are examples of how there are MORE special ed kids currently than there used to be. I guess you would be very happy if all of us who are draining and NEGATIVELY impacting this district would move to a deserted island like a leper.

Bigotry occurs in many forms...you are proof of it.

Do you feel better now?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Little me
Feb 10 2008, 05:06 PM
I really think that is not what LPS reformer is implying. It is indeed a very emotional subject.  :)

Gosh, you mean I just might Not be a disgusting, intolerant, bigot? ;)
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
I'm not sure how you equate understanding our finacial situation to getting rid of SE kids.

Have I ever said we need to get rid of SE kids?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Little me
Feb 10 2008, 05:06 PM
I really think that is not what LPS reformer is implying. It is indeed a very emotional subject. :)

OK, then that must not be what Mr. Lessard was implying when people jumped all over his tush for that comment.

What I find interesting is that the people that usually support LPS Reformer are unusally quiet today. Thankfully they don't want to be associated with those comments that he made regarding my child and other sp needs children.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 05:07 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 04:58 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 04:21 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 03:00 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 09:13 PM
Here is one by LPS Reformer

The costs to educate a special education student exceeds those to educate a general education student, and exceeds the money received from the state. Thus an increase in special education students hurts the bottom line for LPS. Both the decrease in general ed students, and the increase in special ed students are negatives for the district's financial health.

I think calling sp needs kids NEGATIVES is bashing in my book.

I am going back to the ORGINAL statement you made on another thread. Put any spin on it you want, but the FACT is YOU said it.


I have read your posts. I am NOT assuming anything. The fact remains that both you and Mr Lessard said that the Sp ed kids "drain" and have a NEGATIVE effect on our budget.

Are there custodians in the closed buildings FULL TIME, or are you assuming that? I would expect LPS to make sure the buildings are being checked and maintained to some degree. If they weren't you would be the first to complain, right? Are there kitchen workers in those closed buildiings? Secretaries? Specials teachers? Special ed teachers?

Adams will be reopening as a special ed preschool building and I couldn't be happier after Perrinville. What will your issue with that be? I am sure AA will want Perrinville back at some point.

As to spending money on Sp ed. Goes to show ya what ya know. It's MANDATED. If a child needs a lift bus, LPS must provide one. If there is a child in the district that must ride in an air conditioned bus per IEP/504, then LPS MUST provide it.

Quit backpedling and admit you said the sp ed kids are a NEGATIVE. Sheesh

I stand by the statement.

However, my entire point in bringing it up was to point out we are trending LOWER in general ED students, and higher in SE students. The increase in SE students, makes the financial effect of the LI appear less than it is, by covering up some of the loss in GE students.

It is a fact that an increase in SE students increases district expenses greater than the increase in revenue. It is a simple fact. Just like water flowing down hill, or the sun rising in the east.

What needs to be done, is to recognize the true nature of our financial condition, and cut spending to live within our means.

You can't correct our financial mess, unless you are willing to admit how bad it is.

However, if it makes you feel better to use me as your emotional puching bag, then enjoy. ;)

You just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself showing your intolerance and bigotry against sp needs kids.

Let's pull a couple of examples;

Autism and Asperger's syndrome. Right now the occurance is 1 in every 150 births and it is growing at the rate of 10 - 17% a year. There are more sp ed kids right there. In addition, the trend is going to be mandated that the MAJORITY of these kids are going to be pulled OUT of center programs and mainstreamed into regular classrooms, so you better warn your children that they are going to eventually have a student in their class that NEGATIVELY will impact their learning budget. Acorns don't fall far from trees, ya know.

Another example is the rate of survival of very premature infants. While, thankfully some don't require any special services, many, many do. Since we have the technology to save these infants, we are seeing more kids with language, gross motor and fine motor delays.

Now, those are examples of how there are MORE special ed kids currently than there used to be. I guess you would be very happy if all of us who are draining and NEGATIVELY impacting this district would move to a deserted island like a leper.

Bigotry occurs in many forms...you are proof of it.

Do you feel better now?

The ONLY thing you respond to in that post was the issue of you being a bigot? You can't agree that the need for sp services is increasing?

I DO feel better today, A LOT better for calling you out for the phoney you really are.
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 05:27 PM
Little me
Feb 10 2008, 05:06 PM
I really think that is not what LPS reformer is implying. It is indeed a very emotional subject.  :)

OK, then that must not be what Mr. Lessard was implying when people jumped all over his tush for that comment.

What I find interesting is that the people that usually support LPS Reformer are unusally quiet today. Thankfully they don't want to be associated with those comments that he made regarding my child and other sp needs children.

Sigh.....


Call me what you will, it does not make it any less false.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
If point out that health care costs are climbing at an unsustaimable rate, does that make me bigoted against sick people?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
My only point, was that we receive less from the state than we pay out to teach SE kids. This has a negative impact on the financials, when SE kids are making up a greater portion of the student body over time.

Do you disagree with that?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 05:33 PM
If point out that health care costs are climbing at an unsustaimable rate, does that make me bigoted against sick people?

We are NOT talking about health care, apples and oranges. We are talking about a comment both you and Mr Lessard made. And FYI, my child probably NEGATIVELY impacts health care costs too with all the surgery needed. Guess you better book us on the next flight to that deserted island with other sp needs kids.

It is my hope that by this conversation today that you learned something. I have given you facts bout the increase in numbers of sp ed kids, yet you choose to ignore them.

That speaks volumes. When you are presented with facts, you choose to change the subject.

Let's hope you kids, nieces, nephews or grandkids never have to walk in my kid's shoes.



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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Truth is generally the best vindication against slander.

--Abraham Lincoln (1809–1865)
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 05:39 PM
My only point, was that we recive less from the state than we pay out to teach SE kids. This has a negative impact on thefinancials, when SE kids are making up a greater portion of the student body over time.

Do you disagree with that?

Do you disagree with this?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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Little me
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Advanced Member
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CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 05:27 PM
Little me
Feb 10 2008, 05:06 PM
I really think that is not what LPS reformer is implying. It is indeed a very emotional subject.  :)

OK, then that must not be what Mr. Lessard was implying when people jumped all over his tush for that comment.

What I find interesting is that the people that usually support LPS Reformer are unusally quiet today. Thankfully they don't want to be associated with those comments that he made regarding my child and other sp needs children.

Sorry, but it is quite a difference. (If that was the case) Mr. Lessard is a BOE member there for all kids. Clearly his statement about being a drain is just inexcusable! But there he sits, advocating for all kids. He is the disgusting one and needs to get off the BOE! He is a disgrace to our BOE!!
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 05:44 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 05:33 PM
If point out that health care costs are climbing at an unsustaimable rate, does that make me bigoted against sick people?

We are NOT talking about health care, apples and oranges. We are talking about a comment both you and Mr Lessard made. And FYI, my child probably NEGATIVELY impacts health care costs too with all the surgery needed. Guess you better book us on the next flight to that deserted island with other sp needs kids.

It is my hope that by this conversation today that you learned something. I have given you facts bout the increase in numbers of sp ed kids, yet you choose to ignore them.

That speaks volumes. When you are presented with facts, you choose to change the subject.

Let's hope you kids, nieces, nephews or grandkids never have to walk in my kid's shoes.

I'm having a tad bit of trouble following your logic.

Let me see if I have this right. SE kids deserve an education, therefor no one can speak about how the trend of increasing SE kids in LPS effects our budget. Does that sum it up?

“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 05:44 PM
Let's hope you kids, nieces, nephews or grandkids never have to walk in my kid's shoes.

If I do, does that mean I am no longer a bigot? ;)
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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Queen of Hearts
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LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 10:00 AM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 09:11 PM
Reformer, even removing SE does not make a fair comparison.  The numbers you provide do not provide info on what jobs the districts have out-sourced.  Those that have outsourced are going to have lower support staff numbers.  Since LPS hasn't outsourced custodians, kitchen workers, bus drivers, etc...  you STILL can't compare fairly.

Sounds like you just don't want LPS compared to other districts.

Do you really believe that we can't compare the effectivness of our "leadership" to others?

Support staff basically includes all positions that are not admin or teachers, and you need to know if the districts you are comparing us to employ those people or if they contract out for them, it's that simple. You are not comparing apples to apples without having that info. Sounds like you don't want to make an apples to apples comparison.
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Micki
I love teaching.
This thread has gotten horribly off track.
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CoolnCalm
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Mrs.M
Feb 9 2008, 08:29 PM
Please post where there was special ed bashing on 'this board', since you most definitely stated: I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board, unless of course you spoke in error.

I guess THIS post is the one that started this off track thread.
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CoolnCalm
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LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 05:50 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 05:39 PM
My only point, was that we recive less from the state than we pay out to teach SE kids.  This has a negative impact on thefinancials, when SE kids are making up a greater portion of the student body over time.

Do you disagree with that?

Do you disagree with this?

Sorry, but too little too late, dear.

Your comment about NEGATIVELY impacting is what it is. Don't try covering your tracks now.

Remember, when you point the finger of blame, you have 3 more pointing back at you.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
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Little me
Feb 10 2008, 05:53 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 10 2008, 05:27 PM
Little me
Feb 10 2008, 05:06 PM
I really think that is not what LPS reformer is implying. It is indeed a very emotional subject.  :)

OK, then that must not be what Mr. Lessard was implying when people jumped all over his tush for that comment.

What I find interesting is that the people that usually support LPS Reformer are unusally quiet today. Thankfully they don't want to be associated with those comments that he made regarding my child and other sp needs children.

Sorry, but it is quite a difference. (If that was the case) Mr. Lessard is a BOE member there for all kids. Clearly his statement about being a drain is just inexcusable! But there he sits, advocating for all kids. He is the disgusting one and needs to get off the BOE! He is a disgrace to our BOE!!

I find it very hypocritical of you to say that Mr. Lessard's comment was awful, yet the same comment made by a "friend of yours" is ok?

Hmmm, I see, you make up the rules as you go along. Two wrongs do NOT make a right.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
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Queen of Hearts
Feb 10 2008, 06:15 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 10 2008, 10:00 AM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 09:11 PM
Reformer, even removing SE does not make a fair comparison.   The numbers you provide do not provide info on what jobs the districts have out-sourced.  Those that have outsourced are going to have lower support staff numbers.  Since LPS hasn't outsourced custodians, kitchen workers, bus drivers, etc...  you STILL can't compare fairly.

Sounds like you just don't want LPS compared to other districts.

Do you really believe that we can't compare the effectivness of our "leadership" to others?

Support staff basically includes all positions that are not admin or teachers, and you need to know if the districts you are comparing us to employ those people or if they contract out for them, it's that simple. You are not comparing apples to apples without having that info. Sounds like you don't want to make an apples to apples comparison.

Naw, they rather FOIA the superintendant's cell phone number than actually DO something about funding for special ed. I guess they'd rather have the 5 minutes of fame in front of the tv camera once or twice a month.

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