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| Special Education; Split topic from One-year contract...... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 9 2008, 06:57 PM (1,506 Views) | |
| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 09:42 AM Post #21 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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Because of the way the state funds SE, the more SE kids a district has, the worse off a district is financially. It is a very simple FACT. If pointing out an unpleasant FACT is "bashing", so be it. It is still a FACT. On the bright side, at least QofH tends to agree with you.
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 09:46 AM Post #22 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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This board uses the free verion of the Invision software. Many of the functions are only availble in the "upgrade". This is also the reason for the banner ads. |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 09:58 AM Post #23 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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Wanting to know the extent of our obligation does not mean you want to get rid of those you owe. We have the 2nd highest number of SE kids in the state. This IS an issue that has to be addressed. What do we receive to host Wayne counties programs? If we are teaching the SE kids from other districts, shouldn't those districts pick up a larger portion of the cost? You have to know the numbers, to judge what kind of job our admis are doing. Of course, that may be the real reason for calling me a SE basher.
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 10:00 AM Post #24 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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Sounds like you just don't want LPS compared to other districts. Do you really believe that we can't compare the effectivness of our "leadership" to others? |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 10:23 AM Post #25 |
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Then I guess the FACT is that my special needs kid is NEGATIVELY impacting the district financially. Nice. Real nice and compassionate. Would you prefer NOT educating my child? Maybe you'd prefer my child stay home so your precious children will not be NEGATIVELY impacted financially? This is sooo very intolerant and disgusting. |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 10:25 AM Post #26 |
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Ahhh, To bad the message doesn't say it's an upgrade. kwim? I do understand now why. Thank goodness for google and yahoo search engines. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 10 2008, 10:25 AM Post #27 |
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I can help you with that CT! :lol: No Invisionfree can use the search engine, because it slows everyone down. You can validate that by checking out any other board. http://invisionfree.com/ Trust me, this is a MUCH bigger problem for me than it is for you . HOPEFULLY (fingers crossed) the search engine will be turned when this board is upgraded to ZetaBoards. I don't know when that will be though, and it is out of my control."drain sp ed kids cause on the regular ed kids" Thank you for bringing that up Cool. That quote really bothered me too, but it didn't come from this board. It came directly from the Board of Education, specifically Dan Lessard at a meeting last year. He said something very close to that, and I remember the uproar. I will attempt to get that video posted today. |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 10:29 AM Post #28 |
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Thank you for posting the page and thread. I disagree with your conjecture: seems IDK and MelanieRicketts jumped at the thought and inferred special ed criticism. In truth the statement that LPS Reformer made about sp needs kids NEGATIVELY impacting the budget was a FACT according to him. Seems intolerant, doesn't it? OR do you feel that my child is impacting the district negatively, too? Hmmmmmmmmm??? |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 10:35 AM Post #29 |
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It is my belief that LPS runs the cognitvely mentally impaired program for western wayne county. By far, statistically, it has more students. NPS houses the Severely multiply and cognively impaired program. The number of students may be smaller but the cost could be much higher due to more staff requirements, OTs, PTs, TSLIs, adaptive equiptment, compter based communication devices, etc. Garden City hosts the autistically impaired program at Burger and Cambridge. Although, again, the numbers served may be smaller, the fact is that the cost to run this program is also high due to high ratios of staff to students, adaptive equipment, computer based language devices, etc. In the end, I do belive it all balances out. |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 10:41 AM Post #30 |
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Thanks for the clarification, Jimid. I now understand why the search engine is not on...I think the message when you click on it should be more clear. A few boards that I moderate have gone to Yuku. Have you seen those??? I totally agree that Mr. Lessard's comment was uncalled for and selfish, too. BUT you do have to admit that LPS Reformer made the same statement yet you and others seem to ignore it. What is good for the Goose... ya know Two wrongs do not make a right. Stay warm everyone!!! |
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| Deleted User | Feb 10 2008, 10:48 AM Post #31 |
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I have looked at other boards, but there is one philosophy I firmly believe in. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". I want this board to stay around for decades if possible, and hopefully searchable. That way citizens from all sides of the issues can learn what people were thinking and doing in the history of Livonia, and learn from it. I can't save all of this info if I move the board, and I really wish I hadn't moved the old one at this point. |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 12:30 PM Post #32 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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Compassion does not include putting your head in the sand, and hoping the financial problem goes away. The solution is NOT getting rid of special needs kids. The solution is to cut the waste. We have too many support staff. The resources needed to keep all of these extra positions going could be better spent in the class room. SE is not the problem. Waste is. Like it or not, business as usual can not continue. If we are to have the funds to meet our obligation to ALL students, waste must be CUT. Would you prefer the compassion of a receiver? |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 02:13 PM Post #33 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 03:31 PM Post #34 |
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What the heck is your point? We have too many support staff. Too many speech teachers to serve kids with articulation, social issues (asperger's) and language delays? Who are MANDATED by a caseload BTW Too many special ed para pros? (who are MANDATED, BTW) Too many social workers to deal with the problems kids have? Too many psychologists to also deal with kids' issues? Too many teacher consultants who are mandated by an IEP? Too many resource room teacher who are mandated by an IEP? You need to get down on your knees and thank whomever you believe in that your child(ren) don't need these services. I thank MY God that LPS has the excellent support staff on board to help the kids that need it. You are truly a piece of work and the epitome of memememe |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 03:40 PM Post #35 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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1 last time, I am NOT TALKING ABOUT SPECIAL ED! How about the custodians the empty buildings? Would you rather spend money on them or SE? Go back and read my posts, instead of assuming. This district is up to it'e eyebrows in friends and family. SE employees however, are some of the least likely to fall into that catagory, given the special skills they need to have. For pities sake. |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 04:00 PM Post #36 |
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I am going back to the ORGINAL statement you made on another thread. Put any spin on it you want, but the FACT is YOU said it. I have read your posts. I am NOT assuming anything. The fact remains that both you and Mr Lessard said that the Sp ed kids "drain" and have a NEGATIVE effect on our budget. Are there custodians in the closed buildings FULL TIME, or are you assuming that? I would expect LPS to make sure the buildings are being checked and maintained to some degree. If they weren't you would be the first to complain, right? Are there kitchen workers in those closed buildiings? Secretaries? Specials teachers? Special ed teachers? Adams will be reopening as a special ed preschool building and I couldn't be happier after Perrinville. What will your issue with that be? I am sure AA will want Perrinville back at some point. As to spending money on Sp ed. Goes to show ya what ya know. It's MANDATED. If a child needs a lift bus, LPS must provide one. If there is a child in the district that must ride in an air conditioned bus per IEP/504, then LPS MUST provide it. Quit backpedling and admit you said the sp ed kids are a NEGATIVE. Sheesh |
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| Vanna White | Feb 10 2008, 04:18 PM Post #37 |
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Veteran
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Looking at how an expense impacts the budget is not the same thing as advocating that it be eliminated or cut. Of course kids that need special ed services must be provided with those services. But we should still look to see if we have the appropriate number of support staff for the district, and that doesn't need to have anything to do with special education. I personally think it is horrible that we have been increasing the number of bus drivers while decreasing the number of teachers, for example. It doesn't make sense to continue spending a bigger portion of our tax dollars on transportation rather than the classroom as a result of a reconfiguration of grades that was supposed to save us money. The bottom line is that the old model with neigborhood schools, more teachers and fewer bus drivers and buses (AND MORE STUDENTS) worked better. |
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| LPS Reformer | Feb 10 2008, 05:21 PM Post #38 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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I stand by the statement. However, my entire point in bringing it up was to point out we are trending LOWER in general ED students, and higher in SE students. The increase in SE students, makes the financial effect of the LI appear less than it is, by covering up some of the loss in GE students. It is a fact that an increase in SE students increases district expenses greater than the increase in revenue. It is a simple fact. Just like water flowing down hill, or the sun rising in the east. What needs to be done, is to recognize the true nature of our financial condition, and cut spending to live within our means. You can't correct our financial mess, unless you are willing to admit how bad it is. However, if it makes you feel better to use me as your emotional puching bag, then enjoy.
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| CoolnCalm | Feb 10 2008, 05:58 PM Post #39 |
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You just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself showing your intolerance and bigotry against sp needs kids. Let's pull a couple of examples; Autism and Asperger's syndrome. Right now the occurance is 1 in every 150 births and it is growing at the rate of 10 - 17% a year. There are more sp ed kids right there. In addition, the trend is going to be mandated that the MAJORITY of these kids are going to be pulled OUT of center programs and mainstreamed into regular classrooms, so you better warn your children that they are going to eventually have a student in their class that NEGATIVELY will impact their learning budget. Acorns don't fall far from trees, ya know. Another example is the rate of survival of very premature infants. While, thankfully some don't require any special services, many, many do. Since we have the technology to save these infants, we are seeing more kids with language, gross motor and fine motor delays. Now, those are examples of how there are MORE special ed kids currently than there used to be. I guess you would be very happy if all of us who are draining and NEGATIVELY impacting this district would move to a deserted island like a leper. Bigotry occurs in many forms...you are proof of it. |
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| Little me | Feb 10 2008, 06:06 PM Post #40 |
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I really think that is not what LPS reformer is implying. It is indeed a very emotional subject.
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. HOPEFULLY (fingers crossed) the search engine will be turned when this board is upgraded to ZetaBoards. I don't know when that will be though, and it is out of my control.