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Special Education; Split topic from One-year contract......
Topic Started: Feb 9 2008, 06:57 PM (1,502 Views)
CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 05:02 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 05:51 PM
Special Ed Students

Livonia  1101
Canton    123

That speaks VOLUMES.

Exactly, QofH. Our district houses the cognitvely impaired program at Webster and at the Skill Center for western wayne co. In addition, we also have Perrinville and those staff numbers are always going to be higher because of toileting issues with the little ones. Don't we also have a Visually Impaired program?

I swear, if someone comes on here and rips Special Ed. and the numbers, I will blow a gasket.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 06:36 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 05:57 PM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 05:02 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 05:51 PM
Special Ed Students

Livonia  1101
Canton    123

That speaks VOLUMES.

Exactly, QofH. Our district houses the cognitvely impaired program at Webster and at the Skill Center for western wayne co. In addition, we also have Perrinville and those staff numbers are always going to be higher because of toileting issues with the little ones. Don't we also have a Visually Impaired program?

I swear, if someone comes on here and rips Special Ed. and the numbers, I will blow a gasket.

As you can see, SE is not the problem. Well, OK it is a problem, but that is with the way SE is funded compared to funding for the general population.

The point, is even with the SE programs removed, LPS is not as efficent as Plymouth-Canton.

Define SE "removed" Children who get speech and language for 30 minutes a week are in a regular classroom. How are they factored in? Students with a 504 plan are in a regular classroom, yet they may have a resource room teacher or teacher consultant.

My sp needs child has every right to an education and I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board. I would love nothing better than to have a 'normal' child. Be thankful you have and quit bellyaching about the "drain sp ed kids cause on the regular ed kids" I know there was a board member that made a comment and I called him on it too.

Two wrongs don't make a right!
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 05:57 PM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 05:02 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 05:51 PM
Special Ed Students

Livonia  1101
Canton    123

That speaks VOLUMES.

Exactly, QofH. Our district houses the cognitvely impaired program at Webster and at the Skill Center for western wayne co. In addition, we also have Perrinville and those staff numbers are always going to be higher because of toileting issues with the little ones. Don't we also have a Visually Impaired program?

I swear, if someone comes on here and rips Special Ed. and the numbers, I will blow a gasket.

Sounds painfull.

Wouldn't it be easier to have a adult discussion?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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Vanna White
Member Avatar
Veteran
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 06:45 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 06:36 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 05:57 PM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 05:02 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 05:51 PM
Special Ed Students

Livonia  1101
Canton    123

That speaks VOLUMES.

Exactly, QofH. Our district houses the cognitvely impaired program at Webster and at the Skill Center for western wayne co. In addition, we also have Perrinville and those staff numbers are always going to be higher because of toileting issues with the little ones. Don't we also have a Visually Impaired program?

I swear, if someone comes on here and rips Special Ed. and the numbers, I will blow a gasket.

As you can see, SE is not the problem. Well, OK it is a problem, but that is with the way SE is funded compared to funding for the general population.

The point, is even with the SE programs removed, LPS is not as efficent as Plymouth-Canton.

Define SE "removed" Children who get speech and language for 30 minutes a week are in a regular classroom. How are they factored in? Students with a 504 plan are in a regular classroom, yet they may have a resource room teacher or teacher consultant.

My sp needs child has every right to an education and I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board. I would love nothing better than to have a 'normal' child. Be thankful you have and quit bellyaching about the "drain sp ed kids cause on the regular ed kids" I know there was a board member that made a comment and I called him on it too.

Two wrongs don't make a right!

I can understand why you would be particularly sensitive regarding any topics that relate to special ed, but I don't think anyone was doing any bashing...just trying to understand the numbers and why they differ from district to district.

Perhaps LPS Reformer can show us how the teacher to support staff ratio has changed over the last few years. I think the number of teachers dropped while there was an increase in other positions, particuarly since the LI. At any rate...that way we can look at the trend in this district rather than comparing to other districts.
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Mrs.M
Veteran
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 06:45 PM

My sp needs child has every right to an education and I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board.

Following in your topic SE

In defense of "this board" refresh my memory, what topic or page was all the special bashing on? We all know the BOE trustees and LPS adm. who 'critized the lack of funding' and 'drain on the system' beliefs. And we all know those comments proved in error especially with the pot of gold that was found in the special ed budget.

You're darn tootin EVERY CHILD is guaranteed and deserves an education and every parent should insist their child gets the best education available.

As far as the resource room teacher goes, it seems they may at times be reluctant to decertify a certain number of students, since if their caseload drops below a certain number, they would be going between buildings.
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
They are reluctant to DEcertify? IEPs and services are based on test scores. Speech services are determined by test scorestoo. So if they are reluctant to decertify, they must have a dang good reason because their files are audited by the state. Trust me on this issue.

You, as a parent, would have the right to NOT sign the IEP, MET, etc.

More and more students are being certified due to low birth weights, prematurity, and unfortunately too much TV. The OTs are begging parents to not allow TV watching until the age of 2 because it puts the head in an unnatural position and the eyes can't track/

504 plans HAVE to be written for peanut allergies that involve an epi pen, diabetes, or any health issue that involves a deviation in the rules of the classroom, like a special snack time for a diabetic child.

Please, if your TC is reluctant to decertify, then there has to be a dang good reason, otherwise it is unethical.
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al dente
Member
[ *  * ]
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 06:45 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 06:36 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 05:57 PM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 05:02 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 05:51 PM
Special Ed Students

Livonia  1101
Canton    123

That speaks VOLUMES.

Exactly, QofH. Our district houses the cognitvely impaired program at Webster and at the Skill Center for western wayne co. In addition, we also have Perrinville and those staff numbers are always going to be higher because of toileting issues with the little ones. Don't we also have a Visually Impaired program?

I swear, if someone comes on here and rips Special Ed. and the numbers, I will blow a gasket.

As you can see, SE is not the problem. Well, OK it is a problem, but that is with the way SE is funded compared to funding for the general population.

The point, is even with the SE programs removed, LPS is not as efficent as Plymouth-Canton.

Define SE "removed" Children who get speech and language for 30 minutes a week are in a regular classroom. How are they factored in? Students with a 504 plan are in a regular classroom, yet they may have a resource room teacher or teacher consultant.

My sp needs child has every right to an education and I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board. I would love nothing better than to have a 'normal' child. Be thankful you have and quit bellyaching about the "drain sp ed kids cause on the regular ed kids" I know there was a board member that made a comment and I called him on it too.

Two wrongs don't make a right!

Who's doing any bashing?
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Mrs.M
Veteran
Please post where there was special ed bashing on 'this board', since you most definitely stated: I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board, unless of course you spoke in error.
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Vanna White
Feb 9 2008, 07:43 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 06:45 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 06:36 PM
CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 05:57 PM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 05:02 PM
LPS Reformer
Feb 9 2008, 05:51 PM
Special Ed Students

Livonia  1101
Canton    123

That speaks VOLUMES.

Exactly, QofH. Our district houses the cognitvely impaired program at Webster and at the Skill Center for western wayne co. In addition, we also have Perrinville and those staff numbers are always going to be higher because of toileting issues with the little ones. Don't we also have a Visually Impaired program?

I swear, if someone comes on here and rips Special Ed. and the numbers, I will blow a gasket.

As you can see, SE is not the problem. Well, OK it is a problem, but that is with the way SE is funded compared to funding for the general population.

The point, is even with the SE programs removed, LPS is not as efficent as Plymouth-Canton.

Define SE "removed" Children who get speech and language for 30 minutes a week are in a regular classroom. How are they factored in? Students with a 504 plan are in a regular classroom, yet they may have a resource room teacher or teacher consultant.

My sp needs child has every right to an education and I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board. I would love nothing better than to have a 'normal' child. Be thankful you have and quit bellyaching about the "drain sp ed kids cause on the regular ed kids" I know there was a board member that made a comment and I called him on it too.

Two wrongs don't make a right!

I can understand why you would be particularly sensitive regarding any topics that relate to special ed, but I don't think anyone was doing any bashing...just trying to understand the numbers and why they differ from district to district.

Perhaps LPS Reformer can show us how the teacher to support staff ratio has changed over the last few years. I think the number of teachers dropped while there was an increase in other positions, particuarly since the LI. At any rate...that way we can look at the trend in this district rather than comparing to other districts.

I have numbers going back to 2001-02, but it will take a bit to put it together. 2007-08 is not available yet.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Mrs.M
Feb 9 2008, 08:29 PM
Please post where there was special ed bashing on 'this board', since you most definitely stated: I am getting very tired of the special ed bashing that goes on on this board, unless of course you spoke in error.

Sure thing, as soon as the 'administrator of the board' puts the search engine back online.

Ohhhh conspiracy? LOLOL
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Queen of Hearts
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Reformer, even removing SE does not make a fair comparison. The numbers you provide do not provide info on what jobs the districts have out-sourced. Those that have outsourced are going to have lower support staff numbers. Since LPS hasn't outsourced custodians, kitchen workers, bus drivers, etc... you STILL can't compare fairly.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Here is one by LPS Reformer

The costs to educate a special education student exceeds those to educate a general education student, and exceeds the money received from the state. Thus an increase in special education students hurts the bottom line for LPS. Both the decrease in general ed students, and the increase in special ed students are negatives for the district's financial health.

I think calling sp needs kids NEGATIVES is bashing in my book.


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Queen of Hearts
Advanced Member
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I would tend to agree with you CnC
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Mrs.M
Veteran
to my knowledge 'a search engine' on this forum has not been in existence.

What topic and page was that post excerpt from? since you were able to copy paste it. Thanks
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Mrs.M
Feb 9 2008, 09:18 PM
to my knowledge 'a search engine' on this forum has not been in existence.

Gotta wonder WHY this forum doesn't have one. Maybe the adminstrator can speak to this issue. When I click on search, it says it's been disabled/

That's ok...google is my friend. There are more "quotes". I'll finish posting tomorrow...got a sick kid that needs tending right now
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Mrs.M
Veteran
it's probably a [size=7]$[/size] issue
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 09:11 PM
Reformer, even removing SE does not make a fair comparison. The numbers you provide do not provide info on what jobs the districts have out-sourced. Those that have outsourced are going to have lower support staff numbers. Since LPS hasn't outsourced custodians, kitchen workers, bus drivers, etc... you STILL can't compare fairly.

I have seen LPS plumbers, psycholgists, social workers, tech support, bus maintenance workers, and the list goes on. Seems to me you would have to have those people on the payroll and they'd count in employee numbers.
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Queen of Hearts
Advanced Member
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I do think that Jimid stated previously that a search feature does cost money.
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Queen of Hearts
Advanced Member
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CoolnCalm
Feb 9 2008, 10:23 PM
Queen of Hearts
Feb 9 2008, 09:11 PM
Reformer, even removing SE does not make a fair comparison.  The numbers you provide do not provide info on what jobs the districts have out-sourced.  Those that have outsourced are going to have lower support staff numbers.  Since LPS hasn't outsourced custodians, kitchen workers, bus drivers, etc...  you STILL can't compare fairly.

I have seen LPS plumbers, psycholgists, social workers, tech support, bus maintenance workers, and the list goes on. Seems to me you would have to have those people on the payroll and they'd count in employee numbers.

Yes, those would be support staff, and would be listed in those numbers. But didtricts who outsource those kinds of positions would NOT list them in the support staff numbers, making for an "apples to oranges" comparison.
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Mrs.M
Veteran
http://z6.invisionfree.com/Livonianeighbor...p?showtopic=596

page 3 of this forum
Special Ed - What's the cost? And why won't LPS let us know?

After rereading the posted topic is seems IDK and MelanieRicketts jumped at the thought and inferred special ed criticism. When it appears the cost to educate is what was being asked. Again it's all in the interpretation.
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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