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You Tube Video on Livonia Mayor's race; The facts on the Kirksey campaign
Topic Started: Oct 30 2007, 08:23 AM (6,066 Views)
livoniarocks
Veteran
BoaterDan
Nov 2 2007, 08:31 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 1 2007, 07:28 PM

I believe that he did go out and support the milleage for the Rec Ctr.  And that turned out to be a fabulous facility for the city!  It's packed all of the time, has great jobs for teens and young adults.  Perfect place to take your kids when its nasty outside.  The Rec Ctr had to be funded by a milleage, there isn't any other way around it.  If Livonia did't want they wouldn't have voted for it and they definitely wouldn't be utilizing it the way the are.

On the video, I'm not trying to split hairs, I just wasn't getting if it was one continuous interview or they were putting in things here and there. Does that make sense?  I'm not saying that's what it is, just saying that's how I saw it.

I don't like to answer a question with a question, but is there any evidence that she doesn't support tax increases?  In all seriousness.

I really do want to answer your questions, so please keep asking and I will.  Not saying that we are going to agree at the end of the day, but we can at least have a decent discussion about it, and may even gain a little bit of knowledge :-)

Well, every democrat that want to raise taxes and spend more money believes it is for a good cause, and many voters want them. I'm not arguing against the rec center - it is a fabulous facility and a city like Livonia would look silly without one these days. But the bottom line is he took credit for being behind several tax (using the term somewhat loosely) increases and corresponding spending increases, and now says we shouldn't vote for his opponent because of her potential to want to tax and spend, based on just her relationship with people in a party that has had that stereotype. Pretty shaky ground.

The splitting hairs comment wasn't about the editing that may have been used, but about the alleged difference between saying you supported new taxes that people voted for and your opponent potentially supporting new taxes. It's the exact same thing the way I see it.

There's probably no evidence she doesn't believe an alien invasion is coming next year, but that hardly means she does. Seriously, your question is ridiculous. It is only valid if we start with the premise that we know she does until proven otherwise. I really have no idea, so I'm not going to entertain that line of thought. My beef is with the shallowness of making a claim on her potential to have a trait.

I don't think there's really any more questions per se for you to answer. You see a distinction in the taxes he supported and those you're afraid of her supporting, and I don't.

Fair enough. At least we are able to agree to disagree :-)
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livoniarocks
Veteran
Mr.Bean
Nov 2 2007, 08:47 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 2 2007, 08:05 AM
Mr.Bean
Nov 2 2007, 07:59 AM
Extra Olives
Nov 1 2007, 09:31 PM
Case in point, the millage for the rec center was passed because the Kirksey administration told us that by using a millage to pay for it, Livonia citizens would not have to pay membership dues.  Then lo and behold, the millage won't be enough to fund it, so we must pay dues.  What the hell good is a community rec center when not all members of the community can afford to use it?


Nice one Jack......

what?

the millage for the rec center was passed because the Kirksey administration told us that by using a millage to pay for it, Livonia citizens would not have to pay membership dues. Then lo and behold, the millage won't be enough to fund it, so we must pay dues.







That's what...............

That's why I asked if someone can please show me where to find that information. I was around for the millage and don't remember the "everyone gets a membership" thing being said. So, if you can show me where to find that info I would greatly appreciate it.
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Must Be Psychic
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
BoaterDan
Nov 2 2007, 08:31 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 1 2007, 07:28 PM

I believe that he did go out and support the milleage for the Rec Ctr.  And that turned out to be a fabulous facility for the city!  It's packed all of the time, has great jobs for teens and young adults.  Perfect place to take your kids when its nasty outside.  The Rec Ctr had to be funded by a milleage, there isn't any other way around it.  If Livonia did't want they wouldn't have voted for it and they definitely wouldn't be utilizing it the way the are.

On the video, I'm not trying to split hairs, I just wasn't getting if it was one continuous interview or they were putting in things here and there. Does that make sense?  I'm not saying that's what it is, just saying that's how I saw it.

I don't like to answer a question with a question, but is there any evidence that she doesn't support tax increases?  In all seriousness.

I really do want to answer your questions, so please keep asking and I will.  Not saying that we are going to agree at the end of the day, but we can at least have a decent discussion about it, and may even gain a little bit of knowledge :-)

Well, every democrat that want to raise taxes and spend more money believes it is for a good cause, and many voters want them. I'm not arguing against the rec center - it is a fabulous facility and a city like Livonia would look silly without one these days. But the bottom line is he took credit for being behind several tax (using the term somewhat loosely) increases and corresponding spending increases, and now says we shouldn't vote for his opponent because of her potential to want to tax and spend, based on just her relationship with people in a party that has had that stereotype. Pretty shaky ground.

The splitting hairs comment wasn't about the editing that may have been used, but about the alleged difference between saying you supported new taxes that people voted for and your opponent potentially supporting new taxes. It's the exact same thing the way I see it.

There's probably no evidence she doesn't believe an alien invasion is coming next year, but that hardly means she does. Seriously, your question is ridiculous. It is only valid if we start with the premise that we know she does until proven otherwise. I really have no idea, so I'm not going to entertain that line of thought. My beef is with the shallowness of making a claim on her potential to have a trait.

I don't think there's really any more questions per se for you to answer. You see a distinction in the taxes he supported and those you're afraid of her supporting, and I don't.

What is even sillier is that the is being played as such an important issue, when in fact the Mayor of Livonia has no power to raise taxes EXCEPT with the approval of the voters. If our next mayor comes up with a great idea that will require funding beyond what is already available in the budget, then we will all have a chance to decide if we think it is a good enough idea to warrent more taxes. It really should be a non-issue.
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Extra Olives
Veteran
livoniarocks
Nov 2 2007, 08:58 AM
Mr.Bean
Nov 2 2007, 08:47 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 2 2007, 08:05 AM
Mr.Bean
Nov 2 2007, 07:59 AM
Extra Olives
Nov 1 2007, 09:31 PM
Case in point, the millage for the rec center was passed because the Kirksey administration told us that by using a millage to pay for it, Livonia citizens would not have to pay membership dues.  Then lo and behold, the millage won't be enough to fund it, so we must pay dues.  What the hell good is a community rec center when not all members of the community can afford to use it?


Nice one Jack......

what?

the millage for the rec center was passed because the Kirksey administration told us that by using a millage to pay for it, Livonia citizens would not have to pay membership dues. Then lo and behold, the millage won't be enough to fund it, so we must pay dues.







That's what...............

That's why I asked if someone can please show me where to find that information. I was around for the millage and don't remember the "everyone gets a membership" thing being said. So, if you can show me where to find that info I would greatly appreciate it.

Give me some time to find something. It was a few years ago now. But it was one of the reasons why I voted YES. It was also sold to us with the promise that the auditorium would remain intact and that the Olympic sized pool (the ONLY one in the city to have true Olympic measurements) would be part of the plan. Neither of those things made it into the final project.
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livoniarocks
Veteran
Extra Olives
Nov 2 2007, 11:20 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 2 2007, 08:58 AM
Mr.Bean
Nov 2 2007, 08:47 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 2 2007, 08:05 AM
Mr.Bean
Nov 2 2007, 07:59 AM
Extra Olives
Nov 1 2007, 09:31 PM
Case in point, the millage for the rec center was passed because the Kirksey administration told us that by using a millage to pay for it, Livonia citizens would not have to pay membership dues.  Then lo and behold, the millage won't be enough to fund it, so we must pay dues.  What the hell good is a community rec center when not all members of the community can afford to use it?


Nice one Jack......

what?

the millage for the rec center was passed because the Kirksey administration told us that by using a millage to pay for it, Livonia citizens would not have to pay membership dues. Then lo and behold, the millage won't be enough to fund it, so we must pay dues.







That's what...............

That's why I asked if someone can please show me where to find that information. I was around for the millage and don't remember the "everyone gets a membership" thing being said. So, if you can show me where to find that info I would greatly appreciate it.

Give me some time to find something. It was a few years ago now. But it was one of the reasons why I voted YES. It was also sold to us with the promise that the auditorium would remain intact and that the Olympic sized pool (the ONLY one in the city to have true Olympic measurements) would be part of the plan. Neither of those things made it into the final project.

I would really appreciate it. I remember the discussion about the olympic sized pool, but not the everyone gets a membership thing.
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still concerned mom
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Yes, indeed, it was originally presented to the taxpayers that Livonians would not have to pay for membership. It was the only reason my husband and I voted for it. We thought it would be great for our children and the entire community as a whole. It just goes to show that if it sounds too good to be true....
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livoniarocks
Veteran
still concerned mom
Nov 2 2007, 01:38 PM
Yes, indeed, it was originally presented to the taxpayers that Livonians would not have to pay for membership. It was the only reason my husband and I voted for it. We thought it would be great for our children and the entire community as a whole. It just goes to show that if it sounds too good to be true....

I'm not questioning the validity of it, cause I honestly do not remember. That's why I asked if someone had something that I could actually see in print.
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still concerned mom
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Ask Jack!
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Nikki
Veteran
Must Be Psychic
Nov 1 2007, 10:45 PM

Is this Jack's last chance to run for Mayor? Is that why he wants it so bad? When he loses on Tuesday, will he come back in 4 years at 82 years old?
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Nikki
Veteran
still concerned mom
Nov 2 2007, 01:38 PM
Yes, indeed, it was originally presented to the taxpayers that Livonians would not have to pay for membership.  It was the only reason my husband and I voted for it.  We thought it would be great for our children and the entire community as a whole.  It just goes to show that if it sounds too good to be true....

A classic bait and switch. I voted for it too believing I would not have to pay membership for my family.

"Fool me once Shame on you. Fool me twice Shame on me."--Chinese Proverb.

HIT THE ROAD JACK
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BoaterDan
Veteran
Well, several people have now reported that they remember that as a key part of the proposal, to the extent that it was a large part of why they voted to approve it.

Did Jack et al purposely mislead the voters (a la the anti-recall campaign)?

OR

Were they such poor planners they missed the estimated cost by so much they couldn't keep that promise?

Does it really matter which?
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