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You Tube Video on Livonia Mayor's race; The facts on the Kirksey campaign
Topic Started: Oct 30 2007, 08:23 AM (6,070 Views)
Vanna White
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Let's look at the original post in question. Here it is:

RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 10:26 AM
RC, I can tell you the police and fire don't make as much as a Livonia teacher. The police and fire employees also don't get 4 months vacation, weekends off and all major holidays off. Also, the teachers don't put on a bullet proof vest or flame retardant garb every day.

The Livonia Police recently went three years w/o a valid contract. A arbitrator settled that contract, which was valid for approx. 30 days. That contract then expired and the police have now been w/o a valid contract for the past 11 months.  Have the teachers ever experienced such a thing?


Once again, common sense and an intelligent thought process eludes you.


It appears to me to be full of facts and one question. Not one opinion at all, and I don't think any of these facts are being disputed. I don't see Renee's point at all.
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RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
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I am inferring nothing. I simply informed you that police/fire don't make what teachers make. I don't like it when people put stupid words or inferences in my mouth. Simple as that.
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Mr.Bean
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livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 09:46 AM
Mr.Bean
Oct 30 2007, 08:54 PM
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 06:01 PM
BoaterDan
Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 30 2007, 03:36 PM

Mr. Bean is just full of hot air.  He has nothing to back it up.  He even needed Dan to come to his rescue.

I didn't come to anybody's rescue. I simply asked AGAIN for you to answer a simple, straightforward and honest question. You continue to refuse to do so. Why is that Renee?

Last time I had this experience was with Joanne Morgan. Hmmmm.

lol. Sorry, that was funny no matter who you are. :-)

This is to you and Bean, I understand that Renee didn't give you the answer you wanted. Bean gave a response that a child would give.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Everytime you give an answer like that you are only solidifying my point.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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RU Kidding Me?
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Odds are great that Renee's next post starts with, "I'm rubber and your glue......."
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Whatever
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Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 08:58 PM
if you can't take a little criticism or risk being misunderstood, then what are you doing on here?

The same could easily be asked of you
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Blue Skies
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Teachers play a significant role. Police and Fire play a significant role. As do garbage collectors, my newspaper delivery folks, and the woman who cuts my hair.

There is a degree of significance by all means.

This is actually what politics has come to. We draw a line in the sand and discuss whether or not one group is better than the other. We should be discussing what we can do to make our community better and safer, including making sure we have the best teachers at the best pay and the best police and fire with the best pay. . .and all the rest that goes into making our community our hometown.

Candidates don't want us discussing real issues because then we might hold them accountable. Instead they structure arguements that have us discussing points on the perimeter and not in the center of real change.

My seven cents worth.

And my reading of the video on Jack Kirksey suggests that today it is easy to say one thing to one group and another to yet another group. That does not make that candidate a bad person, just a candidate that needs to be pinned down on the specifics.

True of both sides.

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134K
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I don't get how anyone can claim the negativity is not coming from Brosnan camp.

Doesn't anyone else remember that ridiculous mailing before the primary. It was posted about a million times on this sight.

At the risk of sounding like my kid, Who started it?
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Mr.Bean
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134K
Nov 1 2007, 09:02 AM
I don't get how anyone can claim the negativity is not coming from Brosnan camp.

Doesn't anyone else remember that ridiculous mailing before the primary. It was posted about a million times on this sight.

At the risk of sounding like my kid, Who started it?

Nobody knows where that came from.Do you maybe??
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134K
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Mr.Bean
Nov 1 2007, 09:04 AM
134K
Nov 1 2007, 09:02 AM
I don't get how anyone can claim the negativity is not coming from Brosnan camp.

Doesn't anyone else remember that ridiculous mailing before the primary.  It was posted about a million times on this sight. 

At the risk of sounding like my kid, Who started it?

Nobody knows where that came from.Do you maybe??

:rolleyes: Don't know for sure. Not too tough to figure out though.
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Mr.Bean
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134K
Nov 1 2007, 09:08 AM
Mr.Bean
Nov 1 2007, 09:04 AM
134K
Nov 1 2007, 09:02 AM
I don't get how anyone can claim the negativity is not coming from Brosnan camp.

Doesn't anyone else remember that ridiculous mailing before the primary.  It was posted about a million times on this sight. 

At the risk of sounding like my kid, Who started it?

Nobody knows where that came from.Do you maybe??

:rolleyes: Don't know for sure. Not too tough to figure out though.

Well, from what I know of Maureen, it wasn't her...so.....
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Spanky
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134K
Nov 1 2007, 10:02 AM
I don't get how anyone can claim the negativity is not coming from Brosnan camp.

Doesn't anyone else remember that ridiculous mailing before the primary. It was posted about a million times on this sight.

At the risk of sounding like my kid, Who started it?

Um, let's see, that piece on kirksey was put out before the primary and no one knows who sent it. Someone who loves Brosnan? Someone who hates Kirksey? Either way, it was one mailer.

Now, let's look at the slam/hate mail put out against Maureen. Our house alone has gotten, what, 4 pieces of that trash!! And Jack-o might as well have scrawled his signature at the bottom. The word 'over-kill' comes to mind first and after that, desperation.

So, ok 134, SOMEONE started it, but of course, Jack is finishing it off true to his past way of campaigning, downright nasty. Classy, Jack, real classy.
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mmmmkay?
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Blue Skies
Oct 30 2007, 07:23 AM

Thought it was time to bring this back into the string.



mmmmkay?
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BoaterDan
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livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 08:09 AM


you should check this out.  These are the real answers to all of the accusations against Kirksey.  Straight forward, simple answers.  I'm not speaking for Renee, but these are my answers to the youtube video as well as to other accusations that have been made.

Well, if that's his answer then my conclusion is he can't be trusted.

These sound pretty contradictory to me. At best his recent response is doublespeak meant only to avoid really answering the question.

Video:
Interviewer: Chris had mentioned the possibility of raising local taxes...is it a possibility?
Kirksey: WE'VE actually done it.... 1999 WE went out for a tax for recreation...2001 WE went out for a tax to create funding..

Campaign web site:
Kirksey has never increased your taxes by changing millage rates or by any other method....Only voters themselves can increase millage rates.

He CLEARLY takes credit for leading the charge in raising taxes in the video. Whether he can't technically raise them without the voters approval is irrelevant. What a pathetic liar.
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BoaterDan
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livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 07:32 AM
Bean and others are continuing with the same avoidance that you are annoyed with.  I do not know Renee, but you can't just pick on her when others that agree with you are doing the same thing.

You can express your frustration with them all you want, but I have none since they are not avoiding answering my simple and straightforward question. If you must know, I consider most of what goes on here from both sides as background noise, but this was a direct question.

Expecting an answer to such a question is not "picking on" someone, unless you're with some others in the zone where the only defense to any challeng question you don't like is to claim it's unfair.
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Extra Olives
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BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 10:47 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 08:09 AM


you should check this out.  These are the real answers to all of the accusations against Kirksey.  Straight forward, simple answers.  I'm not speaking for Renee, but these are my answers to the youtube video as well as to other accusations that have been made.

Well, if that's his answer then my conclusion is he can't be trusted.

These sound pretty contradictory to me. At best his recent response is doublespeak meant only to avoid really answering the question.

Video:
Interviewer: Chris had mentioned the possibility of raising local taxes...is it a possibility?
Kirksey: WE'VE actually done it.... 1999 WE went out for a tax for recreation...2001 WE went out for a tax to create funding..

Campaign web site:
Kirksey has never increased your taxes by changing millage rates or by any other method....Only voters themselves can increase millage rates.

He CLEARLY takes credit for leading the charge in raising taxes in the video. Whether he can't technically raise them without the voters approval is irrelevant. What a pathetic liar.

Oh BD, didn't you listen to the audio? It's not taxes it's "revenue enhancement". Geez, pay attention. :P ;)
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livoniarocks
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BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 10:54 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 07:32 AM
Bean and others are continuing with the same avoidance that you are annoyed with.  I do not know Renee, but you can't just pick on her when others that agree with you are doing the same thing.

You can express your frustration with them all you want, but I have none since they are not avoiding answering my simple and straightforward question. If you must know, I consider most of what goes on here from both sides as background noise, but this was a direct question.

Expecting an answer to such a question is not "picking on" someone, unless you're with some others in the zone where the only defense to any challeng question you don't like is to claim it's unfair.

Not at all. What was the direct question you asked?
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BoaterDan
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livoniarocks
Nov 1 2007, 11:27 AM
BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 10:54 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 07:32 AM
Bean and others are continuing with the same avoidance that you are annoyed with.  I do not know Renee, but you can't just pick on her when others that agree with you are doing the same thing.

You can express your frustration with them all you want, but I have none since they are not avoiding answering my simple and straightforward question. If you must know, I consider most of what goes on here from both sides as background noise, but this was a direct question.

Expecting an answer to such a question is not "picking on" someone, unless you're with some others in the zone where the only defense to any challeng question you don't like is to claim it's unfair.

Not at all. What was the direct question you asked?

Well, I have partial answers thanks to a post by somebody else, but the questions were:

Did he cite examples of raising taxes as examples of his leadership? [Appears to from the video, his childish nonsense about voters making the ultimate decisions notwithstanding]

Is he using fear that his opponent will raise taxes as a reason not to vote for her? [Yes, I just read it myself on his web site]

Isn't that hypocritical?
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livoniarocks
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BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 11:42 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 1 2007, 11:27 AM
BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 10:54 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 07:32 AM
Bean and others are continuing with the same avoidance that you are annoyed with.  I do not know Renee, but you can't just pick on her when others that agree with you are doing the same thing.

You can express your frustration with them all you want, but I have none since they are not avoiding answering my simple and straightforward question. If you must know, I consider most of what goes on here from both sides as background noise, but this was a direct question.

Expecting an answer to such a question is not "picking on" someone, unless you're with some others in the zone where the only defense to any challeng question you don't like is to claim it's unfair.

Not at all. What was the direct question you asked?

Well, I have partial answers thanks to a post by somebody else, but the questions were:

Did he cite examples of raising taxes as examples of his leadership? [Appears to from the video, his childish nonsense about voters making the ultimate decisions notwithstanding]

Is he using fear that his opponent will raise taxes as a reason not to vote for her? [Yes, I just read it myself on his web site]

Isn't that hypocritical?

Honestly as far as the video is concerned I can't take it seriously at all. It's a cut and paste of a bunch of different things. It doesn't look like the answers to the questions were really answers to those exact questions. It sounds like someone made changes to the questions. The woman's voice is not the woman from the LWV forum, so where is she from?

I understand what you are saying. There is a HUGE difference between raising taxes and putting a school or building milleage on the ballot. I understand that Maureen cannot personally raise state income taxes, but the negative piece on her is showing her strong ties and support to someone who did. Therefore, if she supports someone like that, who is to say that she will not support a Headlee rollback or some other type of TAX increase for the city.

On a personal note, I'm not a big milleage person either, but I am happy with the Rec Center, and if I see that the schools are using their money wisely and seriously do need an increase in the Sinking Fund or something I give serious consideration to voting for it ( don't believe I have voted for one yet--just on a side note).

Having a mayoral candidate with any potential to support a TAX increase in Livonia is Bad for Livonia, just as our new income tax increase and service tax is Bad for Michigan.

That's the best way that I can explain it, I think it's easier to have a conversation as opposed to trying to explain on a thread. I'm sure I didn't give answers that you like, but I did my best to answer them, let me know if you have any others. :-)
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LPS Reformer
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 11:42 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 1 2007, 11:27 AM
BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 10:54 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 07:32 AM
Bean and others are continuing with the same avoidance that you are annoyed with.  I do not know Renee, but you can't just pick on her when others that agree with you are doing the same thing.

You can express your frustration with them all you want, but I have none since they are not avoiding answering my simple and straightforward question. If you must know, I consider most of what goes on here from both sides as background noise, but this was a direct question.

Expecting an answer to such a question is not "picking on" someone, unless you're with some others in the zone where the only defense to any challeng question you don't like is to claim it's unfair.

Not at all. What was the direct question you asked?

Well, I have partial answers thanks to a post by somebody else, but the questions were:

Did he cite examples of raising taxes as examples of his leadership? [Appears to from the video, his childish nonsense about voters making the ultimate decisions notwithstanding]

Is he using fear that his opponent will raise taxes as a reason not to vote for her? [Yes, I just read it myself on his web site]

Isn't that hypocritical?

Posted Image

Maybe ol' Jack was just for taxes before he was against them?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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livoniarocks
Veteran
LPS Reformer
Nov 1 2007, 12:59 PM
BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 11:42 AM
livoniarocks
Nov 1 2007, 11:27 AM
BoaterDan
Nov 1 2007, 10:54 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 07:32 AM
Bean and others are continuing with the same avoidance that you are annoyed with.  I do not know Renee, but you can't just pick on her when others that agree with you are doing the same thing.

You can express your frustration with them all you want, but I have none since they are not avoiding answering my simple and straightforward question. If you must know, I consider most of what goes on here from both sides as background noise, but this was a direct question.

Expecting an answer to such a question is not "picking on" someone, unless you're with some others in the zone where the only defense to any challeng question you don't like is to claim it's unfair.

Not at all. What was the direct question you asked?

Well, I have partial answers thanks to a post by somebody else, but the questions were:

Did he cite examples of raising taxes as examples of his leadership? [Appears to from the video, his childish nonsense about voters making the ultimate decisions notwithstanding]

Is he using fear that his opponent will raise taxes as a reason not to vote for her? [Yes, I just read it myself on his web site]

Isn't that hypocritical?

Posted Image

Maybe ol' Jack was just for taxes before he was against them?

I don't think you can make that claim at all. I am against taxes, but I voted for the milleage for the Rec Center. I don't think by me voting for that makes me "for taxes".
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