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You Tube Video on Livonia Mayor's race; The facts on the Kirksey campaign
Topic Started: Oct 30 2007, 08:23 AM (6,071 Views)
Renee Chesney
Veteran
Vanna White
Oct 31 2007, 02:59 PM
Newsflash: Pay is not normally based on how hard someone works, the risk they may take, the value they add to society as a whole, the level of education required to do the job or some kind of judgement of which jobs are most important in comparison to others. Pay is normally subject to the market forces of supply and demand and companies normally look at compensation surveys in their market in order to set their own rates at the right place compared to their competitors or similar employers in order to recuit and retain good employees. In the case of employees with union representation, the wages are bargained for, but still in reality, the market forces play the largest role in determining pay rates.

Personally, I think that police, fire fighters and teachers are all really important to society. It is silly to argue about which is more valuable. It's a chicken/egg thing.

Thank you Vanna. We obviously agree on something.
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RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
RC, Please point out to me where I stated that police/fire are more important than teachers. POINT THAT OUT TO ME!!!! AND don't come back with, "I was reading between the lines." I was simply telling you that the police/fire don't make as much as LPS teachers. No need to FOIA. I also pointed out the contract mess that police/fire are in because I don't think the general public has any idea what goes on with our public safety.

I would never ask a teacher to respond to a bank robbery, and I would never have my child ask a police officer how to do trigonometry. They are two different jobs that each deserve more pay. I have the utmost respect for teachers. DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!!

You are like the dolls my sister got at X-Mas. Pull the string and watch them babble and ramble on. The only exception is the dolls made infinitely more sense than your posts. You are the blind squirrel that has yet to find the nut.

In re-reading your post it appears as though you are saying that police and fire are more important. I guess you forgot the question mark after that sentence? Once again people can only guess what you mean.
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 03:49 PM
RC, Please point out to me where I stated that police/fire are more important than teachers. POINT THAT OUT TO ME!!!! AND don't come back with, "I was reading between the lines." I was simply telling you that the police/fire don't make as much as LPS teachers. No need to FOIA. I also pointed out the contract mess that police/fire are in because I don't think the general public has any idea what goes on with our public safety.

I would never ask a teacher to respond to a bank robbery, and I would never have my child ask a police officer how to do trigonometry. They are two different jobs that each deserve more pay. I have the utmost respect for teachers. DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!!

You are like the dolls my sister got at X-Mas. Pull the string and watch them babble and ramble on. The only exception is the dolls made infinitely more sense than your posts. You are the blind squirrel that has yet to find the nut.

In re-reading your post it appears as though you are saying that police and fire are more important. I guess you forgot the question mark after that sentence? Once again people can only guess what you mean.

Whatever :rolleyes:

You respond to my posts about how both sides of Farmington should be considered the same. What is one to think????

And they call me mean on here!!!! Pot, Kettle, Black.
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RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Nice response. "Whatever." Are you ten? BTW, you still haven't pointed out where I said police/fire are more important than teachers. I'M WAITING!!!!!!

And where did I say that both sides of Farmington Road should be considered the same?

P.S. I never called you mean, just CLUELESS.
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CoolnCalm
Advanced Member
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Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 10:07 AM
yrraH NS
Oct 31 2007, 09:34 AM
Are you suggesting that the Board of Education works for the MEA/ LEA... or vice-versa?

Not at all. I am suggesting that the LEA members and other unions affiliated with the schools work for the Public School System. Just like the firefighters and police officers work for the City (a Public entity). Do you not think that the firefighters and police are going to back the person they think will give them the most when it comes time to negotiate their contract? Maybe we ought to FOIA them and find out how much they are making. Might be some big surprises over there and may pale in comparision to employeees of the schools. If you are going to apply your methodology of thinking with the LEA, then you should apply the same methodology to the Police and Firefighters because it is the same scenerio just across Farmington Road to do anything less would be highly hypocritical.

Now, Renee, you have to know by now the folks on this board are the "do as I say, not as I do" people.

On another thread, I quoted our confused and dazed friend on how he was reaming Mr. Kirksey for showing up at Laurel Park at the High School Musical program. When MoBro showed up at SHS actually introducing herself and passing out stickers at the home football game, there was no outcry.

I am still waiting for my answer and I am not holding my breath. That would mean that the confused one would have to admit that MoBro was doing the same thing Jack was crucifed for. HORRORS!

So, Renee, you see, these people love to point the finger of blame and hate getting caught when there are 3 more pointing back at them.

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jolly rancher
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Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 01:28 PM
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 10:26 AM
RC, I can tell you the police and fire don't make as much as a Livonia teacher. The police and fire employees also don't get 4 months vacation, weekends off and all major holidays off. Also, the teachers don't put on a bullet proof vest or flame retardant garb every day.

The Livonia Police recently went three years w/o a valid contract. A arbitrator settled that contract, which was valid for approx. 30 days. That contract then expired and the police have now been w/o a valid contract for the past 11 months.  Have the teachers ever experienced such a thing?


Once again, common sense and an intelligent thought process eludes you.

You are such a hypocrite. Feel one way when it suits you and another when it doesn't. The facts remain the same on each side of Farmington Rd. Thanks for the concern over my intelligence, but I am smart enough to see through your line of crap. So now police and firefighters are more important the educators who teach our kids. To me they are all important.

Ooohh RU sounds to me like you are choking on a bitter pill. Would you be a police officer or firefighter or married to one? It is a shame that they don't have a contract, I won't argue with you on that one, but how is that the fault of the LEA/MEA? Sounds to me like you are blaming them for the fact that the police/firefighters don't have a contract. I know, I shouldn't read between the lines, but c'mon it happens on here all the time and from both sides of the fence.

Who is negotiating for the city? Would it be Jack Engebretson? The great fence sitter, he won't commit to either Jack or Maureen, one because he relies on Jack's advice for running the city and the other reason cause he has a BIG crush on Maureen.
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RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Jolly, Point out to me where I said it WAS the fault of the MEA or LEA. Your reading between the lines couldn't be further from the truth. I know they have NOTHING to do with LPD/LFD contracts. Why can't you take what I said earlier at face value? I don't believe the majority of the city has any idea there are no contracts in place. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Most Livonia citizens are very supportive of our public safety officers and I thought they should be aware of this fact (no contract).

I'm not choking on a "bitter pill." I just don't like unintelligent posts. You know, the kind RC thrives on. BTW, RC I'm still waiting.

I believe the majority of the negotiations is being done by the Human Resources Director.

Time to trick-or-treat.
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Hopeful
Advanced Member
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Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 10:07 AM
yrraH NS
Oct 31 2007, 09:34 AM
Are you suggesting that the Board of Education works for the MEA/ LEA... or vice-versa?

Not at all. I am suggesting that the LEA members and other unions affiliated with the schools work for the Public School System. Just like the firefighters and police officers work for the City (a Public entity). Do you not think that the firefighters and police are going to back the person they think will give them the most when it comes time to negotiate their contract? Maybe we ought to FOIA them and find out how much they are making. Might be some big surprises over there and may pale in comparision to employeees of the schools. If you are going to apply your methodology of thinking with the LEA, then you should apply the same methodology to the Police and Firefighters because it is the same scenerio just across Farmington Road to do anything less would be highly hypocritical.

RC - yes there were, and are, unions involved in every election.

The difference, that stands out the most, is that the LEA members are the ONLY people that benefited from the LI. The LI plan was told/sold to this entire community as "what is best for all of the children". All of the research found would STRONGLY disagree with the sales pitch that was used. It is a fact that there was a decrease in students (>600, general ed) the first year after implementation. How is it that the LEA enjoyed an increase in FTE's reported to the State for the same year that there was such a decline in students? :blink: After their increase in jobs, they most definitely assisted the incumbent school board members in maintaining their positions.

The police and firefighters unions do work for the city; and as expected they have a vested interest in the local politics. However, they are not in the process of repaying any favors....... are they? If they were, don't you think that they would be endorsing the former mayor (who, in the beginning of this campaign was telling all that he had done for those unions when he was mayor) ? ;)


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Renee Chesney
Veteran
Hopeful
Oct 31 2007, 06:40 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 10:07 AM
yrraH NS
Oct 31 2007, 09:34 AM
Are you suggesting that the Board of Education works for the MEA/ LEA... or vice-versa?

Not at all. I am suggesting that the LEA members and other unions affiliated with the schools work for the Public School System. Just like the firefighters and police officers work for the City (a Public entity). Do you not think that the firefighters and police are going to back the person they think will give them the most when it comes time to negotiate their contract? Maybe we ought to FOIA them and find out how much they are making. Might be some big surprises over there and may pale in comparision to employeees of the schools. If you are going to apply your methodology of thinking with the LEA, then you should apply the same methodology to the Police and Firefighters because it is the same scenerio just across Farmington Road to do anything less would be highly hypocritical.

RC - yes there were, and are, unions involved in every election.

The difference, that stands out the most, is that the LEA members are the ONLY people that benefited from the LI. The LI plan was told/sold to this entire community as "what is best for all of the children". All of the research found would STRONGLY disagree with the sales pitch that was used. It is a fact that there was a decrease in students (>600, general ed) the first year after implementation. How is it that the LEA enjoyed an increase in FTE's reported to the State for the same year that there was such a decline in students? :blink: After their increase in jobs, they most definitely assisted the incumbent school board members in maintaining their positions.

The police and firefighters unions do work for the city; and as expected they have a vested interest in the local politics. However, they are not in the process of repaying any favors....... are they? If they were, don't you think that they would be endorsing the former mayor (who, in the beginning of this campaign was telling all that he had done for those unions when he was mayor) ? ;)

If you are going to apply that logic to one side of Farmington Rd., it should apply to the other side no matter how you twist it. Plain and simple.
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RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
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RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.

Get ready for a long wait. ;)
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
RU, don't bother getting angry with them. They are watching their world collapse.

Pity them, then ignore them.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.

I already explained it to you. If you don't get, I can't help you.
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Sourapples
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Renee Chesney
Nov 1 2007, 01:08 AM
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.

I already explained it to you. If you don't get, I can't help you.

explained?
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
Sourapples
Oct 31 2007, 08:18 PM
Renee Chesney
Nov 1 2007, 01:08 AM
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.

I already explained it to you. If you don't get, I can't help you.

explained?

Go back and read what I posted. The answer is there and when your done, do as my friend Jolly says "Suck on that for awhile." :o
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George
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 08:22 PM
Sourapples
Oct 31 2007, 08:18 PM
Renee Chesney
Nov 1 2007, 01:08 AM
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.

I already explained it to you. If you don't get, I can't help you.

explained?

Go back and read what I posted. The answer is there and when your done, do as my friend Jolly says "Suck on that for awhile." :o

Hey Renee,

Maybe this may help. I think it would work since you like to spend a lot of time on line.

Just a suggestion.


http://www.angerclassonline.com

These good people can always use some assistance.

http://www.cskdetroit.org/ Capuchin Soup Kitchen


http://www.gcfb.org Gleaners

Remember the holidays are coming so try to do something productive, it may help. :)
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 08:22 PM
Sourapples
Oct 31 2007, 08:18 PM
Renee Chesney
Nov 1 2007, 01:08 AM
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.

I already explained it to you. If you don't get, I can't help you.

explained?

Go back and read what I posted. The answer is there and when your done, do as my friend Jolly says "Suck on that for awhile." :o

See what I mean RU?
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
George
Oct 31 2007, 08:34 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 08:22 PM
Sourapples
Oct 31 2007, 08:18 PM
Renee Chesney
Nov 1 2007, 01:08 AM
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 PM
RC, I'm still waiting. Where in any of my posts did I say police/fire are more important than teachers? I guess we are simply left with another one of your posts that you can't explain intelligently. I'm stunned.

I already explained it to you. If you don't get, I can't help you.

explained?

Go back and read what I posted. The answer is there and when your done, do as my friend Jolly says "Suck on that for awhile." :o

Hey Renee,

Maybe this may help. I think it would work since you like to spend a lot of time on line.

Just a suggestion.


http://www.angerclassonline.com

These good people can always use some assistance.

http://www.cskdetroit.org/ Capuchin Soup Kitchen


http://www.gcfb.org Gleaners

Remember the holidays are coming so try to do something productive, it may help. :)

Thanks for the concern, but I am just fine and don't have any anger issues. You though may want to follow your own advice.
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RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
RC, you didn't "explain" anything. How did my initial response to your inquiry of what police/fire make insinuate whether or not both sides of Farmington should or shouldn't be treated the same? And how did you get that I thought police/fire are more important than teachers? If you just inferred these thoughts then simply say so. You explained nothing other than the fact you know how to babble and regurgitate childish sayings.
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 08:52 PM
RC, you didn't "explain" anything. How did my initial response to your inquiry of what police/fire make insinuate whether or not both sides of Farmington should or shouldn't be treated the same? And how did you get that I thought police/fire are more important than teachers? If you just inferred these thoughts then simply say so. You explained nothing other than the fact you know how to babble.

This is what I said:

You respond to my posts about how both sides of Farmington should be considered the same. What is one to think????

If the topic is regarding treating both sides of Farmington the same, and you come back all in defense of the Police and Fire, then what are you inferring about the teachers unions?

My goodness if you can't take a little criticism or risk being misunderstood, then what are you doing on here?
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