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You Tube Video on Livonia Mayor's race; The facts on the Kirksey campaign
Topic Started: Oct 30 2007, 08:23 AM (6,072 Views)
BoaterDan
Veteran
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 06:01 PM
BoaterDan
Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 30 2007, 03:36 PM

Mr. Bean is just full of hot air.  He has nothing to back it up.  He even needed Dan to come to his rescue.

I didn't come to anybody's rescue. I simply asked AGAIN for you to answer a simple, straightforward and honest question. You continue to refuse to do so. Why is that Renee?

Last time I had this experience was with Joanne Morgan. Hmmmm.

lol. Sorry, that was funny no matter who you are. :-)

This is to you and Bean, I understand that Renee didn't give you the answer you wanted. Bean gave a response that a child would give.

Was there actually a response in there somewhere that I missed? The only thing I saw is that childish nonsensical response about "anybody who knows anything about Livonia". It's typical of her lack of substance and ability to discuss things logically.

She continues a rather purposeful avoidance of dealing with Jack's apparent hypocrisy. Why is that?
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livoniarocks
Veteran
BoaterDan
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 06:01 PM
BoaterDan
Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 30 2007, 03:36 PM

Mr. Bean is just full of hot air.  He has nothing to back it up.  He even needed Dan to come to his rescue.

I didn't come to anybody's rescue. I simply asked AGAIN for you to answer a simple, straightforward and honest question. You continue to refuse to do so. Why is that Renee?

Last time I had this experience was with Joanne Morgan. Hmmmm.

lol. Sorry, that was funny no matter who you are. :-)

This is to you and Bean, I understand that Renee didn't give you the answer you wanted. Bean gave a response that a child would give.

Was there actually a response in there somewhere that I missed? The only thing I saw is that childish nonsensical response about "anybody who knows anything about Livonia". It's typical of her lack of substance and ability to discuss things logically.

She continues a rather purposeful avoidance of dealing with Jack's apparent hypocrisy. Why is that?

Bean and others are continuing with the same avoidance that you are annoyed with. I do not know Renee, but you can't just pick on her when others that agree with you are doing the same thing.
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livoniarocks
Veteran
BoaterDan
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 06:01 PM
BoaterDan
Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 30 2007, 03:36 PM

Mr. Bean is just full of hot air.  He has nothing to back it up.  He even needed Dan to come to his rescue.

I didn't come to anybody's rescue. I simply asked AGAIN for you to answer a simple, straightforward and honest question. You continue to refuse to do so. Why is that Renee?

Last time I had this experience was with Joanne Morgan. Hmmmm.

lol. Sorry, that was funny no matter who you are. :-)

This is to you and Bean, I understand that Renee didn't give you the answer you wanted. Bean gave a response that a child would give.

Was there actually a response in there somewhere that I missed? The only thing I saw is that childish nonsensical response about "anybody who knows anything about Livonia". It's typical of her lack of substance and ability to discuss things logically.

She continues a rather purposeful avoidance of dealing with Jack's apparent hypocrisy. Why is that?

http://www.jackkirksey.com/facts.html

you should check this out. These are the real answers to all of the accusations against Kirksey. Straight forward, simple answers. I'm not speaking for Renee, but these are my answers to the youtube video as well as to other accusations that have been made.
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Mr.Bean
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 08:09 AM
BoaterDan
Oct 31 2007, 07:22 AM
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 06:01 PM
BoaterDan
Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 30 2007, 03:36 PM

Mr. Bean is just full of hot air.  He has nothing to back it up.  He even needed Dan to come to his rescue.

I didn't come to anybody's rescue. I simply asked AGAIN for you to answer a simple, straightforward and honest question. You continue to refuse to do so. Why is that Renee?

Last time I had this experience was with Joanne Morgan. Hmmmm.

lol. Sorry, that was funny no matter who you are. :-)

This is to you and Bean, I understand that Renee didn't give you the answer you wanted. Bean gave a response that a child would give.

Was there actually a response in there somewhere that I missed? The only thing I saw is that childish nonsensical response about "anybody who knows anything about Livonia". It's typical of her lack of substance and ability to discuss things logically.

She continues a rather purposeful avoidance of dealing with Jack's apparent hypocrisy. Why is that?

http://www.jackkirksey.com/facts.html

you should check this out. These are the real answers to all of the accusations against Kirksey. Straight forward, simple answers. I'm not speaking for Renee, but these are my answers to the youtube video as well as to other accusations that have been made.

I like a good fairy tale.... :rolleyes:
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
Al Beabak
Oct 31 2007, 07:02 AM
Extra Olives
Oct 30 2007, 09:48 PM
As disgusting as the piece is on Toy, there is a difference between that piece and the swill that the Kirksey camp is putting out on Brosnan and that is, there are no untruths on the Toy piece.  It is just mean, nasty.  The hit peices on Brosnan are despicible because there are no true statements to be found on them.

The one I'm looking at right now says that under Brosnan these things will happen:
        Raise your income taxes.  WRONG.  CAN'T BE DONE.  THE MAYOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STATE INCOME TAXES.
        Launch a new tax on service.  WRONG.  THE MAYOR PLAYS NO ROLE IN STATE TAXES.
        Move 5000 Quicken Loan jobs to Detroit.  DO YOU REALLY THINK ANY MAYOR WOULD SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THAT?  AND LAST I CHECKED, QUICKEN IS STILL HERE.
         Use Livonia tax dollars to fund Detroit buses.  HOW CAN THEY MAKE SUCH A CLAIM?  LIVONIA HAS ITS OWN SYSTEM, CORRECT?

I don't know how the Kirksey people can even get away with such BS.

It's the MO of every Kirksey style campaign. The telltale signs were obvious during his first election run for Mayor, the whole Legacy Initiative debaucle, and now his current campaign.

It is Voter deception, misdirection, and tactics meant to solicit emotional responses that will override the clear and logical thought process every voter should go through before casting anything as important as a vote.

Some political campaigns rely very heavily on this type of tactic since they do not have either strong candidates, strong platforms, lack grass root citizen support, and are perceiving themselves as generally weak, and need to take any opportunity to deceive the voters just to win.

And it's all about winning when campaigns use these tactics, because if it was about the voters, like you and I, we wouldn't be having the wool pulled over our eyes so we can't see clearly when we get to the polls.

All they want is to win at any cost, but the cost is ultimately the price you and I pay for letting campaigns like Kirksey's allow him to be elected.

You seem to describe maurren's campaign to a tee Al. No one is innocent in the politicking going on in Livonia. It is absurd to even to try and deny it. You didn't like the involvment of the LEA in the school board campaigns, but it is okay for the UAW and the police and firefighters unions to step up in the mayoral campaign. I find that to be completely hypocritical by you and your side Al. All of the arguements used against the unions in the school board issues can most certainly be thrown back in your face for the mayoral campaign although I really don't find it necessary.
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yrraH NS
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 08:37 AM
Al Beabak
Oct 31 2007, 07:02 AM
Extra Olives
Oct 30 2007, 09:48 PM
As disgusting as the piece is on Toy, there is a difference between that piece and the swill that the Kirksey camp is putting out on Brosnan and that is, there are no untruths on the Toy piece.  It is just mean, nasty.  The hit peices on Brosnan are despicible because there are no true statements to be found on them.

The one I'm looking at right now says that under Brosnan these things will happen:
        Raise your income taxes.  WRONG.  CAN'T BE DONE.  THE MAYOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STATE INCOME TAXES.
        Launch a new tax on service.  WRONG.  THE MAYOR PLAYS NO ROLE IN STATE TAXES.
        Move 5000 Quicken Loan jobs to Detroit.  DO YOU REALLY THINK ANY MAYOR WOULD SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THAT?  AND LAST I CHECKED, QUICKEN IS STILL HERE.
         Use Livonia tax dollars to fund Detroit buses.  HOW CAN THEY MAKE SUCH A CLAIM?  LIVONIA HAS ITS OWN SYSTEM, CORRECT?

I don't know how the Kirksey people can even get away with such BS.

It's the MO of every Kirksey style campaign. The telltale signs were obvious during his first election run for Mayor, the whole Legacy Initiative debaucle, and now his current campaign.

It is Voter deception, misdirection, and tactics meant to solicit emotional responses that will override the clear and logical thought process every voter should go through before casting anything as important as a vote.

Some political campaigns rely very heavily on this type of tactic since they do not have either strong candidates, strong platforms, lack grass root citizen support, and are perceiving themselves as generally weak, and need to take any opportunity to deceive the voters just to win.

And it's all about winning when campaigns use these tactics, because if it was about the voters, like you and I, we wouldn't be having the wool pulled over our eyes so we can't see clearly when we get to the polls.

All they want is to win at any cost, but the cost is ultimately the price you and I pay for letting campaigns like Kirksey's allow him to be elected.

You seem to describe maurren's campaign to a tee Al. No one is innocent in the politicking going on in Livonia. It is absurd to even to try and deny it. You didn't like the involvment of the LEA in the school board campaigns, but it is okay for the UAW and the police and firefighters unions to step up in the mayoral campaign. I find that to be completely hypocritical by you and your side Al. All of the arguements used against the unions in the school board issues can most certainly be thrown back in your face for the mayoral campaign although I really don't find it necessary.

Oh come on now Renee...

What business did the LEA and MEA have in getting involved with the School Board elections.... unless there was something to to be gained. :ph43r:


The Firefighters WORK FOR THE CITY. The Police WORK FOR THE CITY.

Companies that utilize the UAW workforce CONTRIBUTE TO THE CITY IN MANY, MANY, WAYS.
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Sourapples
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Oh nice "I'm made of rubber, your made of glue..." comment rc
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
yrraH NS
Oct 31 2007, 08:50 AM
Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 08:37 AM
Al Beabak
Oct 31 2007, 07:02 AM
Extra Olives
Oct 30 2007, 09:48 PM
As disgusting as the piece is on Toy, there is a difference between that piece and the swill that the Kirksey camp is putting out on Brosnan and that is, there are no untruths on the Toy piece.  It is just mean, nasty.  The hit peices on Brosnan are despicible because there are no true statements to be found on them.

The one I'm looking at right now says that under Brosnan these things will happen:
        Raise your income taxes.  WRONG.  CAN'T BE DONE.  THE MAYOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STATE INCOME TAXES.
        Launch a new tax on service.  WRONG.  THE MAYOR PLAYS NO ROLE IN STATE TAXES.
        Move 5000 Quicken Loan jobs to Detroit.  DO YOU REALLY THINK ANY MAYOR WOULD SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THAT?  AND LAST I CHECKED, QUICKEN IS STILL HERE.
         Use Livonia tax dollars to fund Detroit buses.  HOW CAN THEY MAKE SUCH A CLAIM?  LIVONIA HAS ITS OWN SYSTEM, CORRECT?

I don't know how the Kirksey people can even get away with such BS.

It's the MO of every Kirksey style campaign. The telltale signs were obvious during his first election run for Mayor, the whole Legacy Initiative debaucle, and now his current campaign.

It is Voter deception, misdirection, and tactics meant to solicit emotional responses that will override the clear and logical thought process every voter should go through before casting anything as important as a vote.

Some political campaigns rely very heavily on this type of tactic since they do not have either strong candidates, strong platforms, lack grass root citizen support, and are perceiving themselves as generally weak, and need to take any opportunity to deceive the voters just to win.

And it's all about winning when campaigns use these tactics, because if it was about the voters, like you and I, we wouldn't be having the wool pulled over our eyes so we can't see clearly when we get to the polls.

All they want is to win at any cost, but the cost is ultimately the price you and I pay for letting campaigns like Kirksey's allow him to be elected.

You seem to describe maurren's campaign to a tee Al. No one is innocent in the politicking going on in Livonia. It is absurd to even to try and deny it. You didn't like the involvment of the LEA in the school board campaigns, but it is okay for the UAW and the police and firefighters unions to step up in the mayoral campaign. I find that to be completely hypocritical by you and your side Al. All of the arguements used against the unions in the school board issues can most certainly be thrown back in your face for the mayoral campaign although I really don't find it necessary.

Oh come on now Renee...

What business did the LEA and MEA have in getting involved with the School Board elections.... unless there was something to to be gained. :ph43r:


The Firefighters WORK FOR THE CITY. The Police WORK FOR THE CITY.

Companies that utilize the UAW workforce CONTRIBUTE TO THE CITY IN MANY, MANY, WAYS.

I hope you were just being sarcastic.
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yrraH NS
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Are you suggesting that the Board of Education works for the MEA/ LEA... or vice-versa?
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livoniarocks
Veteran
Jimid
Oct 30 2007, 08:36 PM
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 08:30 PM
mmmmkay?
Oct 30 2007, 07:27 PM
Jimid
Oct 30 2007, 04:01 PM
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 03:47 PM
Mr.Bean
Oct 30 2007, 12:36 PM
Jimid
Oct 30 2007, 11:53 AM
Well, what do you know. I just got the mail, and yet another Brosnan hit piece. Looks like I will be working for the Brosnan campaign this weekend. Where do I sign up? Seriously, where?

Well, Jack is the master of dirty politics. He and his "good 'ole boys".

Well, now that the Toy hit piece has come and the stuff is being slung from both sides..I guess no one can stand on their "no more nasty politics" soap boxes.

Toy seems be be getting it from both sides. I don't know why that is.

She must have upset the apple cart on both sides of the street eh?




mmmmkay?

I did not mean that Toy was getting it from both sides. I meant that both sides are now sending out negative hit pieces, etc. I was not implying that Toy was getting hit by both sides whatsoever. Just want to clear that up.

I said Toy seems to be getting it from both sides. And that is exactly what I meant. I can't figure out who sent the slammer on Toy. It is not as easily defined as the slammer sent by Kirksey Republicans about Brosnan. Looks like it could be a disgruntled developer. It was pretty nasty.....


Career Politician Laura Toy is Feeding at the Public Trough Again!
(Picture of Toy holding plate of green eggs and bacon)
Even though voters tossed her out of Lansing last year, Toy is right back at the Capitol getting paid our hard earned tax dollars.


You get the picture. It seems personal to me. I need to fix my scanner, and when I do, I will post every piece that I get for everyone.

Ok, I just wanted to make it clear that I was not stating that.
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Mrs.M
Veteran
Just a comment on the youtube video. I really am glad to see a clear and crisp video. Some of those are so grainy. This was was crystal clear. thank you to the producers. I'm glad to know You Tube is FREE, free access, free posting, free viewing.

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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livoniarocks
Veteran
Vanna White
Oct 30 2007, 08:30 PM
Sourapples
Oct 30 2007, 07:53 PM
livoniarocks
Oct 31 2007, 12:38 AM
Vanna White
Oct 30 2007, 07:31 PM
Which negative hit piece was sent by the non-Jack side?  I must have missed it.

There was a hit piece today send from a group out of Lansing on Toy. It was pretty nasty.

It had ties to some West Bloomfield developers

With no known connect to anyone except a Republican. So how is that the "non-Jack" side, aside from your complete guess?

Actually Singh Development has given massive amounts of Money to the Granholm campaign.
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livoniarocks
Veteran
Mr.Bean
Oct 30 2007, 08:54 PM
livoniarocks
Oct 30 2007, 06:01 PM
BoaterDan
Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 30 2007, 03:36 PM

Mr. Bean is just full of hot air.  He has nothing to back it up.  He even needed Dan to come to his rescue.

I didn't come to anybody's rescue. I simply asked AGAIN for you to answer a simple, straightforward and honest question. You continue to refuse to do so. Why is that Renee?

Last time I had this experience was with Joanne Morgan. Hmmmm.

lol. Sorry, that was funny no matter who you are. :-)

This is to you and Bean, I understand that Renee didn't give you the answer you wanted. Bean gave a response that a child would give.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Everytime you give an answer like that you are only solidifying my point.
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
yrraH NS
Oct 31 2007, 09:34 AM
Are you suggesting that the Board of Education works for the MEA/ LEA... or vice-versa?

Not at all. I am suggesting that the LEA members and other unions affiliated with the schools work for the Public School System. Just like the firefighters and police officers work for the City (a Public entity). Do you not think that the firefighters and police are going to back the person they think will give them the most when it comes time to negotiate their contract? Maybe we ought to FOIA them and find out how much they are making. Might be some big surprises over there and may pale in comparision to employeees of the schools. If you are going to apply your methodology of thinking with the LEA, then you should apply the same methodology to the Police and Firefighters because it is the same scenerio just across Farmington Road to do anything less would be highly hypocritical.
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LPS Reformer
Member Avatar
The schools exist to educate, not employ.
Only when Jack hands them their marching orders.
“Child Abuse” means different things to different people....
----Randy Liepa 8/9/12
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RU Kidding Me?
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
RC, I can tell you the police and fire don't make as much as a Livonia teacher. The police and fire employees also don't get 4 months vacation, weekends off and all major holidays off. Also, the teachers don't put on a bullet proof vest or flame retardant garb every day.

The Livonia Police recently went three years w/o a valid contract. A arbitrator settled that contract, which was valid for approx. 30 days. That contract then expired and the police have now been w/o a valid contract for the past 11 months. Have the teachers ever experienced such a thing?


Once again, common sense and an intelligent thought process eludes you.
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yrraH NS
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
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Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 10:07 AM
Do you not think that the firefighters and police are going to back the person they think will give them the most when it comes time to negotiate their contract?

It's exactly what I think when I see the MEA/ LEA backing school board members.

BTW, I don't have a problem paying more for public safety services. Especially when the men and women performing those jobs put there lives at risk everyday, and can be rather underappreciated until something goes worng.
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 10:26 AM
RC, I can tell you the police and fire don't make as much as a Livonia teacher. The police and fire employees also don't get 4 months vacation, weekends off and all major holidays off. Also, the teachers don't put on a bullet proof vest or flame retardant garb every day.

The Livonia Police recently went three years w/o a valid contract. A arbitrator settled that contract, which was valid for approx. 30 days. That contract then expired and the police have now been w/o a valid contract for the past 11 months. Have the teachers ever experienced such a thing?


Once again, common sense and an intelligent thought process eludes you.

You are such a hypocrite. Feel one way when it suits you and another when it doesn't. The facts remain the same on each side of Farmington Rd. Thanks for the concern over my intelligence, but I am smart enough to see through your line of crap. So now police and firefighters are more important the educators who teach our kids. To me they are all important.
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Sourapples
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Renee Chesney
Oct 31 2007, 06:28 PM
RU Kidding Me?
Oct 31 2007, 10:26 AM
RC, I can tell you the police and fire don't make as much as a Livonia teacher. The police and fire employees also don't get 4 months vacation, weekends off and all major holidays off. Also, the teachers don't put on a bullet proof vest or flame retardant garb every day.

The Livonia Police recently went three years w/o a valid contract. A arbitrator settled that contract, which was valid for approx. 30 days. That contract then expired and the police have now been w/o a valid contract for the past 11 months.  Have the teachers ever experienced such a thing?


Once again, common sense and an intelligent thought process eludes you.

You are such a hypocrite. Feel one way when it suits you and another when it doesn't. The facts remain the same on each side of Farmington Rd. Thanks for the concern over my intelligence, but I am smart enough to see through your line of crap. So now police and firefighters are more important the educators who teach our kids. To me they are all important.

But as a balance of duties, responsibilites, and risks it would be fair to say that public safety would demand more in compensation than teaching, both being very honorable professions, but one having more demand and less entitlement.
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Vanna White
Member Avatar
Veteran
Newsflash: Pay is not normally based on how hard someone works, the risk they may take, the value they add to society as a whole, the level of education required to do the job or some kind of judgement of which jobs are most important in comparison to others. Pay is normally subject to the market forces of supply and demand and companies normally look at compensation surveys in their market in order to set their own rates at the right place compared to their competitors or similar employers in order to recuit and retain good employees. In the case of employees with union representation, the wages are bargained for, but still in reality, the market forces play the largest role in determining pay rates.

Personally, I think that police, fire fighters and teachers are all really important to society. It is silly to argue about which is more valuable. It's a chicken/egg thing.
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