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Another Flawed LPS Survey; Carefully Worded for Failure
Topic Started: Oct 16 2007, 09:14 PM (967 Views)
Al Beabak
Advanced Member
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Received this survey from Sheila Alles regarding the interest in a new language program. Unfortunately, if the survey directions are followed as given the response would most certainly be negative and the program would be killed off by "so-called" data used against it. Read it carefully and ask yourself..."what 12 or 13 year old would care about learning Mandarin at their age?". The ask yourself "What 12 or 13 year old who will graduate into this global economy in 2011 or 2012 would have greatly benefited from having learned Mandarin in High School?"


Here is the Survey:

October 2007

Dear parent or guardian of middle school students:

The Livonia Public Schools would like to modify the world language offerings at our high schools to include Chinese (Mandarin dialect) beginning with the 2008-09 school year. Your input is requested as the district makes plans for this change. The current world languages available at the high school level are French, German and Spanish.
Japanese is offered at Stevenson High School only. Students are able to select classes in each of the languages beginning with an introductory level, or year one, and continue through to level/year five as part of their regular schedule of classes.

The influence of China on the world stage has changed dramatically over the past five years. China is beginning to emerge in the world power arena and is becoming economically and diplomatically influential. This change is causing a Chinese language explosion. More people speak Mandarin Chinese, the official language of China, than any other language in the world---over one billion people, compared to 341 million people who speak English. This year, Chinese will top English as the most-used language on the Internet. Between 20,000-50,000 U.S. students
will study Mandarin with 1,500-2000 students taking the inaugural Chinese AP exam this school year. As China rises in its influence in the global community, speaking its language becomes a practical advantage.

Including Chinese in our world language course offerings at the high schools next year necessitates that the district begin planning now. The district's curriculum department needs to develop curriculum and coordinate the textbook adoption process for use in Chinese classes. The personnel department would have to hire staff to teach Chinese. To plan for this change, your input is greatly appreciated. Please discuss the Chinese world language option with your middle school child(ren), identify the level of interest about enrolling in Chinese as a world language elective at the high school and complete the survey below.

You are welcome to return the form during parent-teacher conferences on November or turn it in at the office. Please respond no later than Friday,November9,200T.
Your response is not a final commitment to select Chinese, but rather will help the district in the planning stages.

Thank you for taking time to discuss this topic with your child(ren), completing the form below, and returning it to your child(ren)'s middle school.

Livonia Public Schools is dedicated to preparing our students to be successful in the future and maintaining our commitment of excellence by offering exceptional and relevant educational opportunities.

Signed,

Sheila Alles
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puppylover6464
Advanced Member
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i don't see anything wrong with the survey. they're asking you to ask your kids whether or not they'd be interested in taking chinese in high school...most parents make their kids take a foreign language in high school for college purposes, and the district wants to know if the child would be interested in chinese, rather than french/german/spanish/japanese. i'd certainly hope that the parent would at least involve the child in deciding what language to take...

if the district decided to just go ahead and create the class without asking for the opinions of families, and then nobody ended up taking it, people would complain about the fact that they once again didn't ask for input.

LPS just can't win on this board, can they?
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Al Beabak
Advanced Member
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I can see you do not understand the nature of surveys, data collection, and statistical manipulation.

Let's try this...

Would the question be more relevant if it was asked like this on the survey and directed towards High School Parents to respond?

"Do you believe, given the global economy and world markets in which your children will have to compete in after graduation, that your child would have benefited from having the ability to participate in Mandarin Language Programs if they were available in your school today?"

yes or no


Let's get the relevance and emphasis where it has the most impact today, not on children who do not comprehend or understand global economies for today's world, and tomorrow's job market.
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puppylover6464
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just because a child would possibly benefit from being able to participate in a program, doesn't mean they necessarily WOULD participate. that's what LPS wants to find out.
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Al Beabak
Advanced Member
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Obviously you do not understand that it is not always the child's decision in what classes they choose. Many parents select those classes that they WANT their child to participate in. Sorry if I busted your bubble on freedom of choice, but the PARENT is still the PARENT until the child is of legal age and on their own.
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Renee Chesney
Veteran
Al Beabak
Oct 16 2007, 09:21 PM
Obviously you do not understand that it is not always the child's decision in what classes they choose. Many parents select those classes that they WANT their child to participate in. Sorry if I busted your bubble on freedom of choice, but the PARENT is still the PARENT until the child is of legal age and on their own.

Obviously, the decision of which classes the child takes is up to the parents. I believe we have to sign off on scheduling choices when they are handed in in February. There are mixture of parents out here. Some will let their kids choose and others will not. I am sure the ones who won't let their kids chose, will answer the survey for them without even asking. If it is up to their kid, then they will ask their kid and answer appropriately. It really isn't rocket science. Either they will get enough interest to offer the class and continue offering the class or they won't. Don't take it personally :P
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IlikeLIvonia
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Veteran
I personally think that this method would have resulted in a more concise answer that is true for today and tomorrow


Would the question be more relevant if it was asked like this on the survey and directed towards High School Parents to respond?

"Do you believe, given the global economy and world markets in which your children will have to compete in after graduation, that your child would have benefited from having the ability to participate in Mandarin Language Programs if they were available in your school today?"

yes or no
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mmmmkay?
Advanced Member
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Quote:
 
I am sure the ones who won't let their kids chose, will answer the survey for them without even asking. If it is up to their kid, then they will ask their kid and answer appropriately




You are proving the point that the survey is flawed by your own response. You have already proven that it lacks the controls and clarity that would provide usable data.

Thanks for clarifying that for me Renee. Now I truly realize the purpose. You have given us all a reason to question every LPS survey based on how responses can be manipulated.

You do prove the point!



mmmmkay?
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Renee Chesney
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IlikeLIvonia
Oct 16 2007, 09:32 PM
I personally think that this method would have resulted in a more concise answer that is true for today and tomorrow


Would the question be more relevant if it was asked like this on the survey and directed towards High School Parents to respond?

"Do you believe, given the global economy and world markets in which your children will have to compete in after graduation, that your child would have benefited from having the ability to participate in Mandarin Language Programs if they were available in your school today?"

yes or no

I would think the idea is determine if the interest will be there next year. Ask the middle school parents who will be determining if their child would be taking the class. I would think with the number of parents in Livonia who want to understand what their kids are doing in school, they wouldn't be interested in this class because they wouldn't be able to help them at home. While there may be parents in the high school would have loved their child to take mandarin, that ship has sailed and it is real easy to say they would when they don't have to make the commitment.
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Al Beabak
Advanced Member
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Renee Chesney
Oct 16 2007, 09:42 PM
IlikeLIvonia
Oct 16 2007, 09:32 PM
I personally think that this method would have resulted in a more concise answer that is true for today and tomorrow


Would the question be more relevant if it was asked like this on the survey and directed towards High School Parents to respond?

"Do you believe, given the global economy and world markets in which your children will have to compete in after graduation, that your child would have benefited from having the ability to participate in Mandarin Language Programs if they were available in your school today?"

yes or no

I would think the idea is determine if the interest will be there next year. Ask the middle school parents who will be determining if their child would be taking the class. I would think with the number of parents in Livonia who want to understand what their kids are doing in school, they wouldn't be interested in this class because they wouldn't be able to help them at home. While there may be parents in the high school would have loved their child to take mandarin, that ship has sailed and it is real easy to say they would when they don't have to make the commitment.

But at the High School level my child has very determined goals and paths that they want to follow, and this includes classes in preparation for secondary education and career choices. This is a clear indication that in the span of a few years a decision of this nature between a Jr. High and High School student is very different. Hence, the question's relevance from the age of 12 to the age of 16 is very different also.
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Sourapples
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Renee Chesney
Oct 17 2007, 02:42 AM
While there may be parents in the high school would have loved their child to take mandarin, that ship has sailed and it is real easy to say they would when they don't have to make the commitment.

I would certainly have taken the opportunity to make the committment with my child had it been available. I look at other districts around us, and many more across the country who have been doing this for years and then I look at LPS, with their 40 year old outdated programs and negatively impacting math selections that have been banned in other areas of the country ( who are doing much better than us! ). I don't know how LPS can call themselves a lighthouse district anymore, lighthouses are outdated like LPS, other districts have become GPS or Laser Guided compared to LPS's "beacon"

It's not the issue that the ship has sailed renee, LPS just missed the boat that's all.
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Major Card Player
Advanced Member
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I think our family will be looking for a new and brighter lighthouse. How much does CC cost? Their shiny new building is looking better and better!!!!
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FlowerPower
Member
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Quote:
 
i don't see anything wrong with the survey. they're asking you to ask your kids whether or not they'd be interested in taking chinese in high school...most parents make their kids take a foreign language in high school for college purposes, and the district wants to know if the child would be interested in chinese, rather than french/german/spanish/japanese. i'd certainly hope that the parent would at least involve the child in deciding what language to take...

if the district decided to just go ahead and create the class without asking for the opinions of families, and then nobody ended up taking it, people would complain about the fact that they once again didn't ask for input.

LPS just can't win on this board, can they?



I agree Puppylover - you just can't win on this website. I saw nothing wrong with this survey. You ask for more input into what's going on in the schools and when they give you some then there's complaining. This survey was just putting a feeler out to see if enough kids would be interested in the years to come to make it worthwhile to pursue. Stop looking for things to complain about.
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mmmmkay?
Advanced Member
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FlowerPower
Oct 17 2007, 07:26 AM
I saw nothing wrong with this survey.

That's exactly what they are counting on!



mmmmkay?
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jolly rancher
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Al Beabak
Oct 16 2007, 09:48 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 16 2007, 09:42 PM
IlikeLIvonia
Oct 16 2007, 09:32 PM
I personally think that this method would have resulted in a more concise answer that is true for today and tomorrow


Would the question be more relevant if it was asked like this on the survey and directed towards High School Parents to respond?

"Do you believe, given the global economy and world markets in which your children will have to compete in after graduation, that your child would have benefited from having the ability to participate in Mandarin Language Programs if they were available in your school today?"

yes or no

I would think the idea is determine if the interest will be there next year. Ask the middle school parents who will be determining if their child would be taking the class. I would think with the number of parents in Livonia who want to understand what their kids are doing in school, they wouldn't be interested in this class because they wouldn't be able to help them at home. While there may be parents in the high school would have loved their child to take mandarin, that ship has sailed and it is real easy to say they would when they don't have to make the commitment.

But at the High School level my child has very determined goals and paths that they want to follow, and this includes classes in preparation for secondary education and career choices. This is a clear indication that in the span of a few years a decision of this nature between a Jr. High and High School student is very different. Hence, the question's relevance from the age of 12 to the age of 16 is very different also.

How about those kids that are goal oriented and driven and then once they get to college change majors 2 or 3 times before they actually settle on a course of study for their final degree? There is no point in someone's life when you can say that they are directed and driven enough to choose something that they want to do for their career. Especially in this day and age when people will have multiple careers in their lifetime. Yes, Careers not jobs.

Just a guess here, but they are maybe looking at incorporating Chinese into the middle school curriculum where they can give kids a chance to sample it, and then have some classes at high school to accomodate those who would like to experience it in high school. It is easier to attract teachers of a language if they know that they will have a full schedule to teach rather than just one or two hours per day.
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Al Beabak
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jolly rancher
Oct 17 2007, 08:13 AM

Just a guess here, but they are maybe looking at incorporating Chinese into the middle school curriculum where they can give kids a chance to sample it, and then have some classes at high school to accomodate those who would like to experience it in high school.

That's not what the survey says. It is pretty clear that this course offering is only at the High School level.
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BoaterDan
Veteran
But what was the actual "survey below"? What were the actual questions asked?

Kudos to the district for looking for input.

But one should certainly be cautious about representing the responses to such a mailing as being very statistically significant, and suspicious of anybody that does. This is hardly a proper survey in the literal sense.

So, as long as it's taken for what it's worth I don't see a problem.
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Al Beabak
Advanced Member
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The responses they wanted the parent to seek from the middle schoolers were:
very interested, interested, somewhat interested, or not interested
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professionalmom
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Major Card Player
Oct 17 2007, 07:11 AM
I think our family will be looking for a new and brighter lighthouse.  How much does CC cost?  Their shiny new building is looking better and better!!!!

FYI $8700.

http://www.catholiccentral.net/NETCOMMUNIT...d=231&srcid=470
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