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Board of Education Meeting; Monday, October 15, 2007
Topic Started: Oct 15 2007, 09:57 PM (3,909 Views)
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"Not too bad," that's what the boy killer murmured to his lawyer when the verdict came in. He was right that it could have been worse. The Florida jury might have gone for murder one but instead convicted Nathaniel Brazill, 14, of murder in the second degree for pointing a gun between the eyes of his favorite teacher and pulling the trigger a year ago. "I'm O.K.," he mouthed to his mother Polly, seated in the courtroom's second row. Then he gave a little wave to a young cousin, sitting nearby.

If Brazill didn't at that instant grasp the grim future that awaits him, it probably won't take him long. Next month the judge will mete out a sentence that could mean a lifetime in prison. And if Brazill needs a clearer picture of what's in store for him, the prison life of other school shooters will give him an idea. These young gunmen, at the moment of their wrathful outbursts, were often filled with a sense of potency and triumph or at least relief that whatever or whoever was troubling them had been exorcised. But those sensations generally prove fleeting. As they settle into the monotony and isolation of prison life, these boys tend to experience feelings of profound regret, remorse and loss as they come to terms with what they have done to their victims and what they have done to themselves.

For eight weeks, TIME delved into the lives of 12 convicted school shooters--who had terrified their classmates and periodically traumatized the nation since 1997. Among them, they fired 135 shots, killing 21 people and wounding 62. If they were not suffering overtly from mental illness before their crimes, many clearly are now, with varying degrees of treatment available. Psychologists say they are likely to be suicidal for much of their lives and suffer repeated flashbacks to the single day when everything changed, when they killed beloved teachers or gunned down schoolmates they did not know, when they went from good sons to the young terrorists among us.

More.....
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...,127231,00.html
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Dad
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Tragic stories Jimid. Were you trying to make a connection between these stories and failure to move immediately (within 2 weeks of bringing it up) on the proposed security sytatem? The proposal didn't sound to me like it would keep students out of the schools where they attend- as is the case in nearly all of the news clips you posted.

I can't think of anyone who would argue with you that school violence and security issues are real. At least, you won't get that argument from me. There is far more violence in private homes, but I don't have a security system in my home- do you?
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jolly rancher
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D2ns
Oct 16 2007, 03:51 PM
jolly rancher
Oct 16 2007, 02:49 PM
How about taking simple measures in ALL buildings before we spend more money.

1. Actually having someone walk around and verify that ALL doors are locked from the outside after the last bell rings in the morning.

2. Making sure that staff and students don't open the doors that are locked for someone who comes knocking on the door. Direct them to the front of the building.

3. Ask for ID when it's someone whom staff does not know that is signing in in the building.

4. Tell teachers and formally reprimand them if they prop open doors.

I am sure that there are many other things that I am forgetting that can be done before we spend the money that Mark Schultz so desperately wants us to spend on this system, so that he can sit at Central Office and monitor it remotely instead of checking out residency issues.

So Yes, I think this needs much more discussion before we move forward on it.

You seem quite upset with Mark Schultz and his want for the security system. I would've thought the staff at the schools were already doing the simple precautions you mentioned. When Mark gave the presentation at Holmes earlier this year he told all of us how our society is changing, faster than we can keep up with. He didn't seem the type to just sit around and watch tv monitors.

I wondered who was responsible for residency checks. Is that part of his job description because it could indeed be security issues?

I apologize if it sounds like I am upset with Mark Schultz for wanting this security system. I am not. Personally, from everything I know about Mark I like him. I do know that residency checks are part of his job description and that more needs to be done in that area.

I am not saying that we don't need to have security systems, but that this needs to be looked at closer. The gentleman that spoke last night regarding security systems is in that business, and he thinks that other things could be done. All I'm saying is look closer at it before we act.

Not every building is locked down tight like it should be, and I have seen students and staff open locked doors for people that they should be sending to the main entrance instead.
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CAZENOVIA, Wis. - A student charged in the shooting death of his school principal was a normal teenager but often bragged about getting into trouble, a neighbor said Saturday as this tiny farm town struggled to come to terms with the attack.

Eric Hainstock, 15, told police he gunned down Weston Schools Principal John Klang before classes began Friday because he was upset with a reprimand Klang had given him, according to a criminal complaint charging him with first-degree intentional homicide. The teen was also upset because he felt teachers didn’t intervene to stop students who harassed him, the complaint said.

The high school was quiet and empty Saturday under gloomy skies. Students had taped two signs flanking the main entrance that read, “In our hearts forever remembered” and “In our hearts and prayers.”

Klang was shot just inside that entrance, a day after the principal gave Hainstock a disciplinary warning for having tobacco, according to the complaint.

Alan Hahn, 50, said Saturday he has known the Hainstocks for nearly a decade, and sometimes gave Eric a ride home from school.

‘He was a little wild’
He said the teen enjoyed demolition derbies, racing a remote-control car on the country roads around his home and visiting his grandparents.

“He was a little wild,” Hahn said. “He liked to show off. He always talked about how he got in trouble at school.”

Charged as an adult
No one answered the door Saturday morning at Hainstock’s house, a gray, two-story A-frame in the countryside several miles from Weston High School. A man who answered the door at the grandparents’ home declined comment.

Hainstock was arrested and charged as an adult with murder, Sauk County District Attorney Patricia Barrett said Friday. He could get life in prison if convicted.

Detectives executed a search warrant at Hainstock’s house late Friday, the sheriff said. The teen was scheduled to make an initial court appearance Monday. It was unclear whether he had an attorney.

Hainstock had pried open his family’s gun cabinet, took out a shotgun, retrieved the key to his parents’ locked bedroom and took a .22-caliber revolver, according to the complaint.

He entered the school with the shotgun before classes began and pointed the gun at a social studies teacher, but Thompson wrested it from the teen, the complaint said. When Hainstock reached for the handgun, Thompson and the teacher ran for cover.

Principal said to wrestle away guns
Klang then went into the hallway and confronted Hainstock. A teacher said that after the shots were fired, Klang, already wounded, wrestled the shooter to the ground and swept away the gun, the complaint said. Students and staff detained Hainstock until police arrived, Barrett said.

No one else was injured. Klang was shot in the head, chest and leg, and died hours later at a hospital in Madison, authorities said. Results of an autopsy scheduled for Saturday were not immediately available.

School officials said Klang had given Hainstock a disciplinary notice Thursday for bringing tobacco to school, and the student faced a likely in-school suspension, the complaint said.

Hainstock told investigators a group of kids had called him names and harassed him, and he felt teachers and the principal would not do anything about it, according to the complaint.

It also said Hainstock had told a friend a few days earlier that Klang would not “make it through homecoming,” referring to festivities planned for the school’s homecoming weekend.

After the shooting, Weston’s football game, dance and parade were canceled or postponed, and crisis counselors were brought in for students.

Children from pre-kindergarten to 12th grade attend the small school near Cazenovia, a community of about 300 people about 70 miles northwest of Madison.

The shooting took place two days after a gunman took six students hostage in a Colorado high school and killed one before shooting himself.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15060698/
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Everything needs a closer look. Thats why I was glad it was tabled for more discussion.
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jolly rancher
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Jimid
Oct 16 2007, 04:00 PM
jolly rancher
Oct 16 2007, 03:49 PM
How about taking simple measures in ALL buildings before we spend more money.

1. Actually having someone walk around and verify that ALL doors are locked from the outside after the last bell rings in the morning.

2. Making sure that staff and students don't open the doors that are locked for someone who comes knocking on the door. Direct them to the front of the building.

3. Ask for ID when it's someone whom staff does not know that is signing in in the building.

4. Tell teachers and formally reprimand them if they prop open doors.

I am sure that there are many other things that I am forgetting that can be done before we spend the money that Mark Schultz so desperately wants us to spend on this system, so that he can sit at Central Office and monitor it remotely instead of checking out residency issues.

So Yes, I think this needs much more discussion before we move forward on it.

Why in the HELL haven't we been doing this for years already? You are kidding yourself if you don't think we will need to spend money on security. We will need to spend. Lets just be sure we are spending it wisely. Nice to see the BOE table something for a little further discussion. Makes you wonder why it couldn't be done a little more often. Why the venom for Mark Schultz Jolly? Is the admin paying him back for not supporting the LI???

I am not saying that we don't need to spend money on security. I am saying that there are possibly more things that could be done before spending the money. As for the rest of your post look to my response to D2ns. I personally like Mark Schultz, I just think we need to look at this a little closer before we act. Again, the gentleman that spoke last night during audience communications works in the security business and he thinks that other things can be done as well. I have no idea what the administration is doing to Mark for any reason. Contrary to popular belief I do think for myself. These are my opinions, not administrations.
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jolly rancher
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Tragic stories you posted on school violence JIMID, but the majority of those tragedies are perpetrated by students who attend those schools. How would a state of the art security system keep those kinds of things from happening?
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NICKEL MINES, Pa. - A milk-truck driver carrying three guns and a childhood grudge stormed a one-room Amish schoolhouse Monday, sent the boys and adults outside, barricaded the doors with two-by-fours, and then opened fire on a dozen girls, killing three people before committing suicide. Early Tuesday, two more children died of wounds, a hospital spokeswoman and state police said.

At least five other victims were critically wounded, authorities said.

It was the nation’s third deadly school shooting in less than a week, and it sent shock waves through Lancaster County’s bucolic Amish country, a picturesque landscape of horse-drawn buggies, green pastures and neat-as-a-pin farms, where violent crime is virtually nonexistent.

Most of the victims had been shot execution-style at point-blank range after being lined up along the chalkboard, their feet bound with wire and plastic ties, authorities said. Two young students were killed, along with a female teacher’s aide who was slightly older than the students, state police Commissioner Jeffrey B. Miller said.

“This is a horrendous, horrific incident for the Amish community. They’re solid citizens in the community. They’re good people. They don’t deserve ... no one deserves this,” Miller said.

The fourth victim, a 7-year-old girl, died about 4:30 a.m. Tuesday at Penn State Children's Hospital in Hershey, hospital spokeswoman Amy Buehler Stranges said.

"Her parents were with her," Buehler Stranges said. "She was taken off life support and she passed away shortly after."

Shortly afterward, state police announced the death of a fifth child at a hospital in Delaware, Pennsylvania.

'Acting out in revenge'
The gunman, Charles Carl Roberts IV, a 32-year-old truck driver from the nearby town of Bart, was bent on killing young girls as a way of “acting out in revenge for something that happened 20 years ago” when he was a boy, Miller said.

Miller refused to say what that long-ago hurt was.

Roberts was not Amish and appeared to have nothing against the Amish community, Miller said. Instead, Miller said, he apparently picked the school because it was close by, there were girls there, and it had little or no security.

The attack bore similarities to a deadly school shooting last week in Bailey, Colo., but Miller said he believed the Pennsylvania attack was not a copycat crime. “I really believe this was about this individual and what was going on inside his head,” he said.

Miller said Roberts was apparently preparing for a long siege, arming himself with a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, a 12-gauge shotgun and a rifle, along with a bag of about 600 rounds of ammunition, two cans of smokeless powder, two knives and a stun gun on his belt. He also had rolls of tape, various tools and a change of clothes.

Roberts had left several rambling notes to his wife and three children that Miller said were “along the lines of suicide notes.” The gunman also called his wife during the siege by cell phone to tell her he was getting even for some long-ago offense, according to Miller.

From the suicide notes and telephone calls, it was clear Roberts was “angry at life, he was angry at God,” Miller said. And it was clear from interviews with his co-workers at the dairy that his mood had darkened in recent days and he had stopped chatting and joking around with fellow employees and customers, the officer said.

Miller said that Roberts had been scheduled to take a random drug test on Monday. But the officer said it was not clear what role that may have played in the attack.

Miller said investigators were looking into the possibility the attack may have been related to the death of one of Roberts’ own children. According to an obituary, Roberts and his wife, Marie, lost a daughter shortly after she was born in 1997.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15105305/
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jolly rancher
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Ok enough JIMID, we all get it and I for one have lived those stories enough. Every time something like that happens they all come flooding back. But a security system WILL NOT keep out students who belong at that school. Nor in the case of the Nickel Mines PA, shooting in the Amish community would it have done any good since they don't use electricity.

I don't think anyone here is saying that the security and safety of our children is not important, but tell me how a security system is going to keep a kid from bringing a gun into school in their backpack? Cause that could happen at any building that there are already cameras at any day of the week. The problem is not security systems, or lack thereof, it's GUNS and ANGRY disturbed people.

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At approximately 11:30am, on Wednesday September 27, 2006, 53 year-old Duane R. Morrison entered Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado armed with a 9mm handgun. He was dressed in a black “hoodie” and was carrying a camoflage backpack. After being seen around the school by students, and talking with a few of them, he proceeded to enter Mrs. Smith’s College Prep English Classroom. He pulled his gun and fired at least one shot. He then proceeded to line the kids up at the blackboard, and one by one chose who would be allowed to leave, allegedly tapping them with his gun as he made his decisions. He kept a total of six female students as hostages, and then proceeded to call 9-11 himself, to alert authorities of the his plans. He told them he was armed with an explosive device beside the gun he possessed.


Authorites were able to evacuate the remaining students in the High School as well as the adjacent Middle School. They acted upon a new plan, called the “Active Shooter” plan which was based upon lessons learned from the Columbine Tragedy 7 years ago. In doing so they were able to rescue the remaining students and keep them safe. They then began what was described sporadic negotiations with Mr. Morrison. He would not speak to them directly, instead speaking to them through his hostages whom he used as human shields throughout the ordeal. He proceeded to release 4 of the 6 hostages one at a time over the course of the ordeal which lasted until approximately 3:30 p.m.

According to Park County Sheriff Fred Wegener, at around 3:30 p.m. Mr. Morrison ceased all communication with the negotiators, and gave a deadline of 4:00 p.m. only saying that something would happen at that time. Faced with a situation involving an increasingly agitated gunman, Sheriff Wegener said that a decision to make tactical movements to end the siege were then made. Based upon the gunman’s previous actions, which included sexually molesting some of the student hostages, and based on the threats he had made throughout the ordeal lawmen were convinced that these actions were necessary to try and prevent the deaths of both the girls.

The SWAT teams from Park & Jefferson County who responded to the scene employed a percussion explosive as a diversionary tactic, and then rushed the room. At that point the gunmen first fired at officers, and then shot Miss Emily Keyes in the back of the head (he had been using her as a human shield). Dwayne Morrison then turned the gun on himself committing suicide. The other female hostage was rescued by officers and fled the building on foot.

Emergency medics responded to Miss Keyes injuries and she was brought by the fligh-for-life helicopter that was on stand-by to St. Anthony’s Central Hospital in downtown Denver, Colorado (approximately 35 miles Northwest of Bailey). Upon reaching the flight-for-life helicopter it was reported that she still had vital signs. However, footage showing her arrival at the hospital showed that flight nurses were giving CPR at that time. According to reporters at the hospital she had lost a lot of blood, and the damage she sustained in the shooting was severe. She was rushed into emergency surgery in the hospital’s T-10 (Level 1) Trauma unit on the second floor of the hospital. Doctors and surgeons did everything they could for her, but the damage was too extensive and Miss Emily Keyes, 16, was pronounced dead at 16:32 (4:32 p.m. Denver time).

Many agencies responded to the emergency situation including; the Park County Sheriff’s Department, the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department, Emergency Medical Service including the Flight-for-Life Helicopter, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, the Federal Bureau of Investigation Denver Field Office (who also offered the use of their hostage negotiators), the Denver Communications Vehicle (used to coordinate radio traffice between agencies), as well as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) also monitored the situation from their facilities in Colorado. After the standoff ended, the investigation was turned back over to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, the Park County Sheriff’s Office, and the District Attorney’s Office.

The community of Bailey, Colorado - a small mountain town of approximately 5,500 people - is understandably shocked, and in deep mourning over this tragedy. It touched everyone in the community, including the officers responding to the incident. As Park County Sheriff Fred Wegener stated in a press conference held on Wednesday evening after the standoff, “I was scared to death. Nobody wants this to happen to their school.” Sheriff Wegener has lived in the community for 36 years, graduated from Platte Canyon High School, and his own son was a student in the building when he and his officers responded.

When responding to questions about the decision to go into the room, Sheriff Wegener said that the girls lives had been in danger throughout the afternoon, and earlier actions of this gunman helped him make the decision when he did. When a (rather unscrupulous) reporter asked him whether he was second-guessing the decision to enter the room as they did, he responded, “Yes, eventually I have to face the family of this girl, and their daughter is dead. What would you do?” at that the night’s press conference was ended.

As someone who watched the tragedy of Columbine unfold, living in the area at the time, I firmly believe that these officers did everything they possibly could in this situation. And in doing so prevented the death of the other students who were being held hostage, including the 5th hostage who made it out safely. Thanks should be due to these courageous officers whose unselfish actions averted more atrocity.

At approximately 11:30am, on Wednesday September 27, 2006, 53 year-old Duane R. Morrison entered Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado armed with a 9mm handgun. He was dressed in a black “hoodie” and was carrying a camoflage backpack. After being seen around the school by students, and talking with a few of them, he proceeded to enter Mrs. Smith’s College Prep English Classroom. He pulled his gun and fired at least one shot. He then proceeded to line the kids up at the blackboard, and one by one chose who would be allowed to leave, allegedly tapping them with his gun as he made his decisions. He kept a total of six female students as hostages, and then proceeded to call 9-11 himself, to alert authorities of the his plans. He told them he was armed with an explosive device beside the gun he possessed.


Authorites were able to evacuate the remaining students in the High School as well as the adjacent Middle School. They acted upon a new plan, called the “Active Shooter” plan which was based upon lessons learned from the Columbine Tragedy 7 years ago. In doing so they were able to rescue the remaining students and keep them safe. They then began what was described sporadic negotiations with Mr. Morrison. He would not speak to them directly, instead speaking to them through his hostages whom he used as human shields throughout the ordeal. He proceeded to release 4 of the 6 hostages one at a time over the course of the ordeal which lasted until approximately 3:30 p.m.

According to Park County Sheriff Fred Wegener, at around 3:30 p.m. Mr. Morrison ceased all communication with the negotiators, and gave a deadline of 4:00 p.m. only saying that something would happen at that time. Faced with a situation involving an increasingly agitated gunman, Sheriff Wegener said that a decision to make tactical movements to end the siege were then made. Based upon the gunman’s previous actions, which included sexually molesting some of the student hostages, and based on the threats he had made throughout the ordeal lawmen were convinced that these actions were necessary to try and prevent the deaths of both the girls.

The SWAT teams from Park & Jefferson County who responded to the scene employed a percussion explosive as a diversionary tactic, and then rushed the room. At that point the gunmen first fired at officers, and then shot Miss Emily Keyes in the back of the head (he had been using her as a human shield). Dwayne Morrison then turned the gun on himself committing suicide. The other female hostage was rescued by officers and fled the building on foot.

Emergency medics responded to Miss Keyes injuries and she was brought by the fligh-for-life helicopter that was on stand-by to St. Anthony’s Central Hospital in downtown Denver, Colorado (approximately 35 miles Northwest of Bailey). Upon reaching the flight-for-life helicopter it was reported that she still had vital signs. However, footage showing her arrival at the hospital showed that flight nurses were giving CPR at that time. According to reporters at the hospital she had lost a lot of blood, and the damage she sustained in the shooting was severe. She was rushed into emergency surgery in the hospital’s T-10 (Level 1) Trauma unit on the second floor of the hospital. Doctors and surgeons did everything they could for her, but the damage was too extensive and Miss Emily Keyes, 16, was pronounced dead at 16:32 (4:32 p.m. Denver time).

Many agencies responded to the emergency situation including; the Park County Sheriff’s Department, the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department, Emergency Medical Service including the Flight-for-Life Helicopter, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, the Federal Bureau of Investigation Denver Field Office (who also offered the use of their hostage negotiators), the Denver Communications Vehicle (used to coordinate radio traffice between agencies), as well as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) also monitored the situation from their facilities in Colorado. After the standoff ended, the investigation was turned back over to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, the Park County Sheriff’s Office, and the District Attorney’s Office.

The community of Bailey, Colorado - a small mountain town of approximately 5,500 people - is understandably shocked, and in deep mourning over this tragedy. It touched everyone in the community, including the officers responding to the incident. As Park County Sheriff Fred Wegener stated in a press conference held on Wednesday evening after the standoff, “I was scared to death. Nobody wants this to happen to their school.” Sheriff Wegener has lived in the community for 36 years, graduated from Platte Canyon High School, and his own son was a student in the building when he and his officers responded.

When responding to questions about the decision to go into the room, Sheriff Wegener said that the girls lives had been in danger throughout the afternoon, and earlier actions of this gunman helped him make the decision when he did. When a (rather unscrupulous) reporter asked him whether he was second-guessing the decision to enter the room as they did, he responded, “Yes, eventually I have to face the family of this girl, and their daughter is dead. What would you do?” at that the night’s press conference was ended.

As someone who watched the tragedy of Columbine unfold, living in the area at the time, I firmly believe that these officers did everything they possibly could in this situation. And in doing so prevented the death of the other students who were being held hostage, including the 5th hostage who made it out safely. Thanks should be due to these courageous officers whose unselfish actions averted more atrocity.

http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com/2006/09/...schoolhostages/
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ESSEX, Vt. (AP) — Hours after breaking up with his girlfriend, a man shot four people Thursday, including the girlfriend's mother and her co-worker at an elementary school, then shot himself in the head, police said.
Investigators said they had been searching for Christopher Williams, 26, since early Thursday when the girlfriend called police to report he had taken her car after their breakup.

Later in the day, police said Williams killed Andrea Lambesis' 57-year-old mother, Linda, at her home, then headed to the nearby Essex Elementary School, where her daughter was a teacher.

When he did not find the girlfriend, he shot and killed teacher Mary Shanks, 56, Police Chief David Demag said. He also shot and wounded another person at the school. Police had reported earlier two were injured.

Some 39 staffers were in the building preparing for the start of the school year when the gunman showed up, Demag said.

Williams then went to a condominium complex, where he shot an acquaintance, Chad Johansen, 26, before turning the gun on himself, the chief said.

He said Williams shot himself twice in the head, but was still able to talk to police when they arrived.

Demag said the three injured people, including the shooter, were taken to a hospital. All were in fair or good condition late Thursday.

Jillian Schultz, 22, a resident of the condominiums, said she was in the yard playing with her 13-month-old son and the 2-year-old son of a neighbor she said she knew only as "Chad" when the gunman — disheveled and sweating — ran past her, asking "Where's Chad? Where's Chad?"

Moments later, she heard four gunshots and saw bullets rip through bushes 10 feet away.

"I gathered the kids and the neighbor's kid and I got out of there," Schultz said.

Then she saw Chad — her neighbor, whose last name she didn't know — come toward the building, bleeding from the back and yelling to her to call 911.

The shooter was apprehended on a lawn between the condominiums and a neighboring greenhouse business, said witness Peter Bearor, who was arriving home from work at the time. Police at the scene would not talk to reporters.

Dozens of police from around Chittenden County, including tactical units armed with automatic weapons, converged on the school. One TV report showed people running from the school, ducking their heads.

People from the school were taken to a supermarket for holding about a half mile away.

David Pariseau said his wife, Ellen, a first-grade teacher, told him she and six or seven other teachers had locked themselves in a classroom during the rampage.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-0...cher-shot_x.htm
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Extra Olives
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Jimid, as tragic as all of these events were, all the cameras in the world wouldn't have stopped them. I'm with Jolly on this one (cough, cough, gasp!) :lol: The crimes you listed (at least those I read. I got tired of reading all the depressing stuff), were committed by people who were authorized to be in the buildings. How would a swipe card, camera, monitors, etc. have stopped them? Those kids needed waaaaayyy more than cameras. They needed intervention of a totally different kind.

Think about what we want the security system to do. I would think it would be to keep out people who don't otherwise belong there. I believe the schools are already doing a good job with that. When was the last time you heard of a child being snatched from a school by a complete stranger? Not that it couldn't happen and heaven forbid it ever does, but a state of the art security system costs tons of money that LPS simply does not have right now. I would rather we examine other ways to improve what we are already doing.
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Renee Chesney
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Extra Olives
Oct 16 2007, 09:27 PM
Jimid, as tragic as all of these events were, all the cameras in the world wouldn't have stopped them. I'm with Jolly on this one (cough, cough, gasp!) :lol: The crimes you listed (at least those I read. I got tired of reading all the depressing stuff), were committed by people who were authorized to be in the buildings. How would a swipe card, camera, monitors, etc. have stopped them? Those kids needed waaaaayyy more than cameras. They needed intervention of a totally different kind.

Think about what we want the security system to do. I would think it would be to keep out people who don't otherwise belong there. I believe the schools are already doing a good job with that. When was the last time you heard of a child being snatched from a school by a complete stranger? Not that it couldn't happen and heaven forbid it ever does, but a state of the art security system costs tons of money that LPS simply does not have right now. I would rather we examine other ways to improve what we are already doing.

Jolly's husband just called and she has passed out cold since it appears you two agree on something. Just to add to your post, I think one of the reasons we do well in keeping strangers out is the support staff in the building. They keep their eyes and ears open and know who should be in the schools and who should not be, and most are not shy about questioning unfamiliar faces.

I am glad that LPS is openly looking at being proactive on safety. I would like to see some other items taken care of first.
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Mrs.M
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and the cost of EM was???? and the cost of security system was??

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG.
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Extra Olives
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Renee Chesney
Oct 16 2007, 09:36 PM
Extra Olives
Oct 16 2007, 09:27 PM
Jimid, as tragic as all of these events were, all the cameras in the world wouldn't have stopped them.  I'm with Jolly on this one (cough, cough, gasp!)  :lol:  The crimes you listed (at least those I read.  I got tired of reading all the depressing stuff), were committed by people who were authorized to be in the buildings.  How would a swipe card, camera, monitors, etc. have stopped them?  Those kids needed waaaaayyy more than cameras.  They needed intervention of a totally different kind. 

Think about what we want the security system to do.  I would think it would be to keep out people who don't otherwise belong there.  I believe the schools are already doing a good job with that.  When was the last time you heard of a child being snatched from a school by a complete stranger?  Not that it couldn't happen and heaven forbid it ever does, but a state of the art security system costs tons of money that LPS simply does not have right now.  I would rather we examine other ways to improve what we are already doing.

Jolly's husband just called and she has passed out cold since it appears you two agree on something. Just to add to your post, I think one of the reasons we do well in keeping strangers out is the support staff in the building. They keep their eyes and ears open and know who should be in the schools and who should not be, and most are not shy about questioning unfamiliar faces.

I am glad that LPS is openly looking at being proactive on safety. I would like to see some other items taken care of first.

Maybe when she comes to she will see the light on the LI! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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crazy_cat
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jolly rancher
Oct 16 2007, 07:06 PM
Ok enough JIMID, we all get it and I for one have lived those stories enough.

No kidding -- this is starting to look like the Everyday Math thread.
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Renee Chesney
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Extra Olives
Oct 16 2007, 09:58 PM
Renee Chesney
Oct 16 2007, 09:36 PM
Extra Olives
Oct 16 2007, 09:27 PM
Jimid, as tragic as all of these events were, all the cameras in the world wouldn't have stopped them.  I'm with Jolly on this one (cough, cough, gasp!)  :lol:   The crimes you listed (at least those I read.  I got tired of reading all the depressing stuff), were committed by people who were authorized to be in the buildings.  How would a swipe card, camera, monitors, etc. have stopped them?  Those kids needed waaaaayyy more than cameras.  They needed intervention of a totally different kind. 

Think about what we want the security system to do.  I would think it would be to keep out people who don't otherwise belong there.  I believe the schools are already doing a good job with that.  When was the last time you heard of a child being snatched from a school by a complete stranger?  Not that it couldn't happen and heaven forbid it ever does, but a state of the art security system costs tons of money that LPS simply does not have right now.  I would rather we examine other ways to improve what we are already doing.

Jolly's husband just called and she has passed out cold since it appears you two agree on something. Just to add to your post, I think one of the reasons we do well in keeping strangers out is the support staff in the building. They keep their eyes and ears open and know who should be in the schools and who should not be, and most are not shy about questioning unfamiliar faces.

I am glad that LPS is openly looking at being proactive on safety. I would like to see some other items taken care of first.

Maybe when she comes to she will see the light on the LI! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Were you watching reruns of fantasy island again????? :lol: (I mean as a joke, okay?)
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Xena
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You know homeschooling is starting to look better and better.
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IlikeLIvonia
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jolly rancher
Oct 16 2007, 11:55 PM
Jimid
Oct 16 2007, 04:00 PM
jolly rancher
Oct 16 2007, 03:49 PM
How about taking simple measures in ALL buildings before we spend more money.

1. Actually having someone walk around and verify that ALL doors are locked from the outside after the last bell rings in the morning.

2. Making sure that staff and students don't open the doors that are locked for someone who comes knocking on the door. Direct them to the front of the building.

3. Ask for ID when it's someone whom staff does not know that is signing in in the building.

4. Tell teachers and formally reprimand them if they prop open doors.

I am sure that there are many other things that I am forgetting that can be done before we spend the money that Mark Schultz so desperately wants us to spend on this system, so that he can sit at Central Office and monitor it remotely instead of checking out residency issues.

So Yes, I think this needs much more discussion before we move forward on it.

Why in the HELL haven't we been doing this for years already? You are kidding yourself if you don't think we will need to spend money on security. We will need to spend. Lets just be sure we are spending it wisely. Nice to see the BOE table something for a little further discussion. Makes you wonder why it couldn't be done a little more often. Why the venom for Mark Schultz Jolly? Is the admin paying him back for not supporting the LI???

I am not saying that we don't need to spend money on security. I am saying that there are possibly more things that could be done before spending the money. As for the rest of your post look to my response to D2ns. I personally like Mark Schultz, I just think we need to look at this a little closer before we act. Again, the gentleman that spoke last night during audience communications works in the security business and he thinks that other things can be done as well. I have no idea what the administration is doing to Mark for any reason. Contrary to popular belief I do think for myself. These are my opinions, not administrations.

The guy who spoke at the BOE Meeting on Monday is a parent in the District and is nothing more than a vendor of the same types of Security Systems that were proposed already. That guy had every opportunity to bid on the same proposal that everyone else did. Why he did not do so at the time of the bidding, and then chose to come in at that time to bash the proposed is very questionable. He also screwed up security improvements Mark Schultz had been working on and trying to get into our schools for years.
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134K
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Extra Olives
Oct 16 2007, 09:27 PM
Jimid, as tragic as all of these events were, all the cameras in the world wouldn't have stopped them. I'm with Jolly on this one (cough, cough, gasp!) :lol: The crimes you listed (at least those I read. I got tired of reading all the depressing stuff), were committed by people who were authorized to be in the buildings. How would a swipe card, camera, monitors, etc. have stopped them? Those kids needed waaaaayyy more than cameras. They needed intervention of a totally different kind.

Think about what we want the security system to do. I would think it would be to keep out people who don't otherwise belong there. I believe the schools are already doing a good job with that. When was the last time you heard of a child being snatched from a school by a complete stranger? Not that it couldn't happen and heaven forbid it ever does, but a state of the art security system costs tons of money that LPS simply does not have right now. I would rather we examine other ways to improve what we are already doing.

I agree with you Olives. With the exception of the tragedy at the Amish school In PA, most of these crimes would not have been prevented by the type of security system that was on the table before the last BOE meeting.

In order to prevent the types of things that Jimid referred to, staff and parents need to be vigilant in determining which kids are at risk for committing this type of crime. Although it is stereotyping, there are some glaring similarities in the personalities and place in the social order of these kids. Controlling bullying is an excellent first step. Not ignoring the signs (which many of the students who committed crimes against their schools left.)

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