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| Pledge of Allegiance | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 13 2007, 08:52 PM (5,881 Views) | |
| Vanna White | Sep 15 2007, 02:43 PM Post #21 |
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How would you feel if the words in the pledge were not "under God" but were: "with no God" "under Buddah" "under Allah" or something similar? I am guessing that you would be offended and would not want your child to repeat these words every day. This country, which I love, was founded with a belief in religious freedom and seperation of church and state. Is is right to expect children to repeat an oath to God in a school paid for by public tax money? |
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| sourgrapes | Sep 15 2007, 02:54 PM Post #22 |
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That's kind of the way I feel about it. I don't want to force someone to say it, or embarass anyone by asking them sit it out. It's something that is a personal choice and should be left up to each classroom and teacher to decide whether they say it or not. Spanky, if you feel so strongly about it. Why not have your kids say the pledge after breakfast at home before they get on the bus? |
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| jolly rancher | Sep 15 2007, 03:02 PM Post #23 |
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Wow. How selfish. But hey its always been about your kids and no one elses. SUCK ON THAT FOR AWHILE, BUT BECAREFUL YOUR FACE MAY FREEZE THAT WAY - OOPS IT ALREADY HAS. |
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| Purple Haze | Sep 15 2007, 03:08 PM Post #24 |
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if there were a group of children in harm's way, would you not first protect your own? get real... |
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| LPS Reformer | Sep 15 2007, 03:08 PM Post #25 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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(Adopted by Congress on July 4, 1776) The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world. He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only. He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures. He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people. He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within. He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands. He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers. He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance. He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature. He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation: For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states: For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world: For imposing taxes on us without our consent: For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury: For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses: For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies: For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments: For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us. He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people. He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation. He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands. He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends. We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton Source: The Pennsylvania Packet, July 8, 1776 |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| LPS Reformer | Sep 15 2007, 03:10 PM Post #26 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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I guess you'll have to add this to the list of offensive documents our kids should not be "forced" to read.
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| jolly rancher | Sep 15 2007, 03:13 PM Post #27 |
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Well, well, well...it never ceases to amaze me how many individuals are so quick to "embarass" other children. Don't be stupid of course I will do what I have to do to look out for my kids, but NEVER EVER at the expense of someone elses child. That is just plain sick. Since when it is ever okay to "embarass" (those were Spanky's words, not mine) children? If a teacher did something to embarass your child you would bring that teacher up on charges faster than you finish sucking on that sour green apple jolly rancher. If you want your kids to say the pledge in public, bring em to the next board meeting. SUCK ON THAT FOR AWHILE, BUT BECAREFUL YOUR FACE MAY FREEZE THAT WAY. |
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| Spanky | Sep 15 2007, 03:44 PM Post #28 |
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Settle down folks!! I am not and cannot force anyone to do anything....period! OK, so they don't have to 'sit it out' (poor choice of words on my part), they can stand and not say the words. WHATEVER! If the pledge were 'Under Buddah' or 'under Allah', we would be in a different country and we would not have a choice at all. We would be forced to say these 'pledges' or whatever they do in other countries. As for embarassing other kids on purpose, give me a friggin' break. Yeah, that's what I meant, jolly rancher, let's embarrass all the little kids that can't or won't say it. My child HAS been embarrassed in front of other kids at school and that was a lesson taught about how not to treat others. I can tell you, 'pressing charges' against that teacher never crossed my mind. Well, well, well, we sure are quick to put words in other peoples mouth's, aren't we? SUCK ON THAT FOR A WHILE, JR :rolleyes: |
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| Spanky | Sep 15 2007, 03:49 PM Post #29 |
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I guess I should have stayed out of this topic. I must feel more strongly about our country than some here. The Pledge is a sign of respect. I would always choose to respect our country and teach my our children the same respect. Isn't it great? You and I and anyone else is free to say anything we want on here and not get thrown in jail! Under the bus, perhaps, but not in jail :lol: Have a great day all. I guess we all will figure out our own ways to respect the flag and country
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| sourgrapes | Sep 15 2007, 03:55 PM Post #30 |
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OK Reformer here's the difference requiring someone to read something is a little different than "forcing" them to PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE to something. Maybe you should get your dictionary out and look up what it truly means to pledge allegiance to something. Personally, I think that everyone residing here whether they are citizens or not should be supportive of our country. That being said, it stands to reason because of the premise our country was founded on, they should have freedoms that other countries do not enjoy. One of those choosing to pledge allegiance to something in the name of God or under God or anything else to do with God if they do not believe in God. Get it? There is a difference in what you are saying and in what I am saying. Reading a document is not nearly the same thing. You are reading the document for information, NOT pledging your allegiance to the document. |
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| Purple Haze | Sep 15 2007, 04:46 PM Post #31 |
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I know one thing I'll never pledge allegiance to - the LPS school board! :angry: |
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| jolly rancher | Sep 15 2007, 07:05 PM Post #32 |
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Spanky!!! Jeez!!!! I didn't put any words in your mouth, my response was to purple haze. Maybe you ought to grow a thicker skin if you are going to throw words like "embarass" around with children. Lighten up. You asked for it, you got it. SUCK ON THAT FOR AWHILE - I IMAGINE YOUR FACE IS ALREADY FROZEN THAT WAY. |
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| Spanky | Sep 15 2007, 07:20 PM Post #33 |
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Renee/jolly rancher/aunt bea!!!!! JEEZ!!!! Who cares who you were quoting??? Now shut up and listen-I will apologize for my earlier comments as I seem to have offended many. Our country and our flag and the Pledge are some things I feel strongly about. I should NEVER have said it was ok to have a kid embarrassed, it's not ok. It's not what I really meant, but I'm sure most of you won't believe that because you'd rather think the worst of someone...it seems to be more fun for you. I came back and re-read my post and am retracting SOME of it. But that's ok, rip away on me. I know you will because you can't accept an apology like an adult should. And I will NEVER grow a thicker skin, Renee. It's not my style to say nasty things and not feel bad about it! But that's where you and I differ, eh?? Suck on that (And THAT, my dear, is SO offensive. Did ya get the reaction you wanted????) |
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| jolly rancher | Sep 15 2007, 08:14 PM Post #34 |
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Wrong again!! And just for you I have left off the TAG |
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| Renee Chesney | Sep 15 2007, 08:14 PM Post #35 |
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Thanks for the apology. I can accept it like an adult . As for me, Aunt Bea and Jolly Rancher being one in the same :ph43r: . Once again, you are wrong, but you will never believe me so think what you want
. I too feel strongly about our country, but our country isn't about non acceptance of others. It is about acceptance of everyone, but you don't get that either. Funny how it is okay for you and others on this blog to rip on those who do not feel the same as you and misconstrue what we may have meant. Doesn't feel too good does it? |
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| LPS Reformer | Sep 15 2007, 09:10 PM Post #36 |
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The schools exist to educate, not employ.
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Gosh there is so much love on the $upporter$ side. |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| Mrs.M | Sep 15 2007, 09:37 PM Post #37 |
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My vote is to have the pledge recited. Where's the poll Jimid? In some schools, the teacher or a few students would say the pledge over the PA or in the individual class, leading or reciting to the class. Not all students have the words even memorized. I'm sure some of you have even heard the misspoken words by the youngsters. If you don't know the words or don't want to say them, remain silent. Phrases of exclamation from: Oh My God, God bless you, God help us, Lord help us (and quite a few that I won't post) etc are heard more often during the day than that little phrase 'under God' heard once in the morning 5 days per week. Being politically correct is going to be the ruin of this country. |
| I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be WRONG. | |
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| Purple Haze | Sep 15 2007, 10:56 PM Post #38 |
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yes, Jolly, my face is frozen, only because I'm probably older than most of you! not wiser due to my age, but it is my perception that kids get embarrassed by other kids every day, not because of the God issue, but because of what they wear, how they act, the people they hang with - I could go on and on...I think a kid embarrassed by the God issue pales in comparison to everyday interactions. I think we all have our opinions, and although I may not agree with some of them, I deserve to have my say as well. |
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| LPS Reformer | Sep 15 2007, 11:08 PM Post #39 |
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So, what are your thoughts? |
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“Child Abuse” means different things to different people.... ----Randy Liepa 8/9/12 | |
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| jolly rancher | Sep 15 2007, 11:21 PM Post #40 |
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Who said you couldn't have your say? It is people on here like you and Spanky who think that only your opinion and those that agree with you/them that matters. Wrong-o. How do you know that I am not older than you? I could be, although I doubt it. |
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. I too feel strongly about our country, but our country isn't about non acceptance of others. It is about acceptance of everyone, but you don't get that either. Funny how it is okay for you and others on this blog to rip on those who do not feel the same as you and misconstrue what we may have meant. Doesn't feel too good does it?