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Hillary Champions Hope; Love trumps Hate
Topic Started: Jul 29 2016, 03:52 AM (276 Views)
Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

Text of Convention Speech

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McEntire
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Are we going to pretend that this speech wasn't a little disappointing?
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McEntire Mormont, son of Common-Sense Politics
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McEntire
Jul 29 2016, 05:16 AM
Are we going to pretend that this speech wasn't a little disappointing?
That's not what I'm hearing.

Listen, if your bar is Barack Obama or Bill Clinton, Hillary is never gonna make that. And I think people knew that coming in. She did better than I even dared to expect, however.
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Mousebumples
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If you give this mouse a cookie, she'll probably ask for some cheese.

She had some good attacks against Trump, and I was impressed with a lot of the speakers that led into her own speech last night.

She's not a soaring orator, but even Obama's nomination acceptance speech in 2008 wasn't mega-impressive by his own standards, if memory serves.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

Yeah, there are few politicians who are as good at speaking as Bill and Obama are.

Hillary isn't any "more" or "less" good of a speaker than any standard politician: Bernie, Warren, etc., etc.
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McEntire
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To me it wasn't tone that I took issue with, it was substance. I was really waiting for her to lay out a progressive vision. She said the word "systemic racism", but she didn't explain what that means or how it impacts people or how she will fix it. There was little talk about income inequality or wall street reform, besides saying that she's going to make wall street pay more in taxes. There was little in the way of campaign finance reform, besides saying that she will appoint justices to overturn Citizens United (not how the judicial system really works, but w/e). Nothing on TPP.

I just felt like it was a play for the middle, and honestly I expected more. This needs to be a choice election between two clearly defined choices. She didn't really articulate a vision for America to contrast with Trump's. I just didn't feel inspired after the speech. I wanted to, SO badly. I will still vote for her, and I will do so enthusiastically, but I want more. And I think progressives should continue to push her and all elected leaders. That's the only way that change happens.
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I think the party is at a crossroads though. Now is not the time to play to the left completely - not that I disagree fundamentally (though yes on the details) - but because idealism needs to give way to reality.
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McEntire
Jul 29 2016, 04:27 PM
To me it wasn't tone that I took issue with, it was substance. I was really waiting for her to lay out a progressive vision. She said the word "systemic racism", but she didn't explain what that means or how it impacts people or how she will fix it. There was little talk about income inequality or wall street reform, besides saying that she's going to make wall street pay more in taxes. There was little in the way of campaign finance reform, besides saying that she will appoint justices to overturn Citizens United (not how the judicial system really works, but w/e). Nothing on TPP.

I just felt like it was a play for the middle, and honestly I expected more. This needs to be a choice election between two clearly defined choices. She didn't really articulate a vision for America to contrast with Trump's. I just didn't feel inspired after the speech. I wanted to, SO badly. I will still vote for her, and I will do so enthusiastically, but I want more. And I think progressives should continue to push her and all elected leaders. That's the only way that change happens.
She is a moderate Democrat!!! She has absorbed a huge amount of the progressive agenda for a moderate. Elections are won in the middle, she is not in the primaries anymore she doesn't need to appeal to progressives anymore. She needs to appeal to the middle ground of America so don't expect anything. Just expect dull old moderate Clinton.
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United Vietussia
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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

I must remember how Clinton stated that Trump gave little solution and attacked her a lot, whilst she did just about the same Trump did in her styling of speech...
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

No, she didn't, lol. Her speech and Trumps couldn't have been more different. What do people expect, a person to just read line-by-line their campaign website agendas? :P
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HEM
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour

United Vietussia
Jul 29 2016, 08:22 PM
I must remember how Clinton stated that Trump gave little solution and attacked her a lot, whilst she did just about the same Trump did in her styling of speech...
She punched back, but it wasn't that negative. Especially considering the RNC featured chants of "Lock her up!" and suggestions that she should be hung / shot / shot by firing squad. :ph43r:
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United Vietussia
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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

I will say upfront I'm a stead-fast Republican. Shoot me. :P

What's messed up at the convention was the whole "we are unified" argument from the DNC against the RNC. Then, we see signs reading "Hillary For Prison" from Bernie supporters, signs from Sanders supporters taken down, and Sanders getting booed for endorsing Hillary..

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Especially considering the RNC featured chants of "Lock her up!"


Well, erm, read paragraph 4.

I really don't appreciate the "Black Lives Matter" chant during a moment of silence for officers.
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United Vietussia Dion, ESS
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Fortunado
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Can I just comment that the hate against blacklivesmatter is one of the most inane things I have seen in a while? People are internalizing these isolated incidents by people who say the are members, but are more or less just there to incite violence. People who wish to use violence, not peace. Yes, they are in blacklivesmatter, yes they also shout stupid shite at a moment of silence. BUT, these people are fringe groups. This is like discounting the civil rights movement because of the black panthers. They are still a group that works to fight racism at a systemic level (for a more abstract definition, basically systemic racism is when it isn't the players who are racist, but the game; the rules are messed up and offensive, such as voting id laws that disproportionately affect minorities). You have some bad cops, and they are not all cops, but there is still a system in place that basically exonerates those cops, see the fact that there has only been like one incarcerated cop because of racialized violence (may try to find source).

But I digress, the issue here is that many people are discounting a group that fights against people making generalized stereotypes based off a small number of people that in no way represent the whole... by making generalized stereotypes based off a small number of people that in no way represent the whole. Let's not forget the many police officers that assisted and helped protestors in the midst of the dallas incident. They are slowly beginning to ask for legitimate reform.

And I think that she still, along with the whole convention, did way better than the RNC, even when there were more in the way of protests. They had a rough beginning, but they evened out. I loved the speech from the Khan family.

I consider myself an idealist, mostly because realists are just pessimists who don't do anything.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

Fortunado
Aug 4 2016, 04:16 PM
Can I just comment that the hate against blacklivesmatter is one of the most inane things I have seen in a while?
Yeah, I agree. I grew up in the South so I'll see #alllivesmatter or #bluelivesmatter (what about firemen? EMTs? lmao)

I hate the argument that "Black Lives Matter is saying that black lives are more important!" -- what? No? It's trying to draw attention to the fact that persons of color face systemic discrimination and are far more likely to have an encounter with law enforcement end in physical confrontation or death.

Also, #alllivesmatter and #bluelivesmatter in response to BLM is like running into a Breast Cancer fundraiser and shouting "ALL CANCERS MATTER" or "DIABETES IS IMPORTANT TOO"
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Malashaan
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My personal favorite formulation of this is "Assuming saying black lives matter means other lives don't matter is like assuming saying save the rain forests means fuck all other trees."
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I personally look forward to the Maltatorship in the Speakership..
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