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Speaker Race Underway; Aex And Noto Weigh Their Chances; ENN Breaking News
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Topic Started: Mar 20 2016, 09:04 PM (555 Views)
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Mar 21 2016, 02:21 AM
Post #16
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.
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Mal, I definitely think that would be an awesome idea and something I would love to incoporate. Maybe something like a Senate General Counsel?
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Family, Resume, and Awards Family  The Right Honourable Aexnidaral "Crist" Seymour Somerset

Son of North East Somerset and Rachel Husband of Pichtonia Seymour Somerset, Phantasus Chastain, and Ogastein Father of Isaris, Klatonia, XIV, and America Billiards Brother of JGlenn, Apollo, Brunhilde, and Ninja KittensResume and Awards "... Aex, who is treated like the Europeian version of Nickelback by a lot of people here."
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Mousebumples
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Mar 21 2016, 02:22 AM
Post #17
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If you give this mouse a cookie, she'll probably ask for some cheese.
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- Malashaan
- Mar 21 2016, 02:16 AM
I wonder if there is value in the Senate "appointing" a neutral legal advisor. The executive has the AG, and while the Senate often contains legal experts, it is not required, and the Senators themselves ate often focused on the legislation itself, not ancillary issues. The last term (and I am not assigning blame here) saw confusion about procedural issues, and legislation passed/proposed that was likely unconstitutional on several occasions. Having a neutral advisor outside of the legislative process might help prevent such issues arising.
I haven thought this through, it just popped into my head when reading the article and following discussion. It's worth thinking about. *watches as Mal tries to maneuver himself into a speaker-esque position for life*
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Europeian Awards Nation Details UN/WA Resolutions I've Passed Quotes "There are infinite Mousebumple s." - Common-Sense Politics [ Source]
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Calvin Coolidge
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Mar 21 2016, 02:23 AM
Post #18
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☆Kawaii Panda☆
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- Aexnidaral Seymour
- Mar 20 2016, 09:29 PM
I don't think it's really fair for the acting President/VP to take sides publicly in this given that it genuinely seems like it could wind up being a tie and you may have to cast a ballot if Trinn isn't back. I would really like to pushback on a portion of your post that is very clearly a dogwhistle insinuation: - Quote:
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... the last Senate did not fail because of Aex, it showed something about his Speakership abilities.
It's borderline dishonest to say that-- "it doesn't have anything to do with you as a person" -- the implication that is not even subtle here is that while the Senate didn't fail because of me, it (apparently) revealed how shitty of a Speaker I am. That style of dogwhistle politics is unfair, and I want to push back on that strongly. I did well with the cards I was dealt. If you want to say something, say it, don't try to subtly insinuate it and hope the readers catch on with a wink wink and a nudge nudge. Why can't I state my opinion just because I might have a say in the matter? Should Senators not take sides publicly on legislation, since they are voting on them? Can voters in an election not support a candidate? I don't really get what the problem is with me expressing my opinion on this matter.
For the "dogwhistle" claim: I said what I meant. I think last term showed that you have your limits as a Speaker, and I'd like to see if Noto's leadership in the Senate can be more successful, since I think it is more suited to the tasks this term is aspiring to. I really think you're reading too much into my post.
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Moronist Decisions
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Mar 21 2016, 02:24 AM
Post #19
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- Malashaan
- Mar 21 2016, 02:16 AM
I wonder if there is value in the Senate "appointing" a neutral legal advisor. The executive has the AG, and while the Senate often contains legal experts, it is not required, and the Senators themselves ate often focused on the legislation itself, not ancillary issues. The last term (and I am not assigning blame here) saw confusion about procedural issues, and legislation passed/proposed that was likely unconstitutional on several occasions. Having a neutral advisor outside of the legislative process might help prevent such issues arising.
I haven thought this through, it just popped into my head when reading the article and following discussion. It's worth thinking about. I think this would be an excellent idea.
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Moronist Decisions ED EOB EIN ESH ESS
     
Formerly: Attorney General, Associate Justice/PIP, World Assembly Delegate, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Senator
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hyanygo
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Mar 21 2016, 02:24 AM
Post #20
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I'm old enough to not really care about the "work I've put in".
The key for me is all about working to strengths. I would argue that this Senate on its own is too lopsided one way. I agree with you that you need a diversity but I don't know if this Senate is diverse enough on its own. This is what I mean by the marshalling of intellectual support. You will necessarily need more viewpoints and experiences than this Senate can bring to bear. On issues such as security, the world assembly, citizen applications, etc you will need outside support. The collective experience of this Senate is small and it will wait too long for the support and free timetables of those that do have experience. I am unfortunately pessimistic in this. Perhaps I am jaded by a previous term which spent an age on spelling mistakes. I am perhaps also a little tired of a previous previous Senate accidentally getting locked up by bills that ought to be have been timetabled for late in the session.
I think we'd do well with more powers to the Speaker to push bills down and not wait for the slow process of tabling. I am at the stage in my thinking that I would rather minor bills be timetabled for a set time and then put in the bin if there is no resolution on the next productive step. I say this because I don't want a list of half-finished eating away at the next marginal hour of our volunteer senators. I think I am in the minority here though.
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hyanygo
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Mar 21 2016, 02:32 AM
Post #21
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On Mal's idea I think that the AG probably is the best person to turn to. If the President has picked well then the AG is likely the person outside the court that has the inclination and time to provide non-binding support. A general counsel on the other hand would probably be second best. I would have taken on the charge of supporting the Senate as I don't believe my executive interests run counter to that of the Senate. However, more recent AGs might have a different view on how they have percieved their political role.
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Kazaman
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Mar 21 2016, 02:58 AM
Post #22
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- hyanygo
- Mar 21 2016, 02:24 AM
I think we'd do well with more powers to the Speaker to push bills down and not wait for the slow process of tabling. I am at the stage in my thinking that I would rather minor bills be timetabled for a set time and then put in the bin if there is no resolution on the next productive step. I say this because I don't want a list of half-finished eating away at the next marginal hour of our volunteer senators. I think I am in the minority here though.
My view is similar. The procedure for readings in particular seems too slow and rigid for me. I prefer a more flexible system where, for instance, a motion for a second reading can be carried at any point with sufficient support. The exact nature of the support needed is a detail that would need hammering out, but as a sketch I think this is more reasonable and malleable than the current system.
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http://gamaraye.myminicity.com Partial Curriculum Vitae Government - Imperator of the Holy Imperium of Nabban, King of the Empire of Democracy - Former Imperial King of the World of Rocket Scientists, One World Government, and the Democratic Clanship of Ross; former Erlking of Asua - Former Prime Minister of Norwood - Former Deputy Prime Minister of Norwood, the Empire of Knights - Former Minister of the Interior/Immigration in Norwood (also Min. of Recruitment), Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors, the Commonwealth, Europeia (Junior Min. of Recruitment) - Former Minister of Culture in Norwood, Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors, the Extanian Imperium Empire, the Land of Dragonia, Europeia (Junior Min. of Culture) - Former Minister of Justice in Nova Imperium - Former Minister of Foreign Affairs in Norwood, Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors (Min. of Ambassadors), the Commonwealth, the Imperium, Europeia, Kantrias - Former Minister of Defence in the Commonwealth, the Imperium, Empires of Earth (Deputy Min. of War), Europeia (Grand Admiral), the Extanian Imperium Empire - Former Director of Intelligence in Norwood (NIS), the Commonwealth (CWIA), Europeia (EIA), the Imperium, Kantrias (RISK), the LKE (Auxiliary Director, IIA) Military - Former Commander of the Armed Forces of the Commonwealth, Europeia, the Imperium, the Empire of Democracy, the Holy Imperium of Nabban, Lone Wolves United, the Extanian Imperium Empire - Former Officer in the Armed Forces of Norwood, the Land of Kings and Emperors, Empires of Earth, the Commonwealth, Unknown, Lone Wolves United, Europeia, the Last Kingdom, the Extanian Imperium Empire - Led operations including soldiers from the Armed Forces of the Land of Kings and Emperors, the New Inquisition, Empires of Earth, the Commonwealth, Unknown, Lone Wolves United, Europeia, the Rejected Realms, the Kodiak Republic, the United Kingdom, the Black Hawks, the Black Riders, the Imperium, the Holy Imperium of Nabban, the Empire of Democracy, the Last Kingdom, the Extanian Imperium Empire,the Aezean Combine, the Brotherhood of Blood, etc.
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Moronist Decisions
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Mar 21 2016, 03:00 AM
Post #23
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- hyanygo
- Mar 21 2016, 02:32 AM
On Mal's idea I think that the AG probably is the best person to turn to. If the President has picked well then the AG is likely the person outside the court that has the inclination and time to provide non-binding support. A general counsel on the other hand would probably be second best. I would have taken on the charge of supporting the Senate as I don't believe my executive interests run counter to that of the Senate. However, more recent AGs might have a different view on how they have percieved their political role. Speaking for myself only during my last tenure, while I would have provided legal advice if asked and have used the CA on occasion to comment on this. However, there are two concerns:
- Where the interest of the Executive runs counter to that of the legislature (uncommon, but possible).
- While I understand your reading of the Ministerial Speech Amendment (2014), i.e. ESPA s3c, is quite possibly different from mine, the AG is (in my view) hampered because he does not have speaking rights on the Senate floor.
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Moronist Decisions ED EOB EIN ESH ESS
     
Formerly: Attorney General, Associate Justice/PIP, World Assembly Delegate, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Senator
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Malashaan
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Mar 21 2016, 03:23 AM
Post #24
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Supreme Malassimo
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I don't think the permissions would be a big obstacle. Generally, I think it would be good for whomever is counseling the Senate to do that separately from the Senate floor anyway (e.g., in the Speaker's Office, or even in private). Furthermore, if detailed discussion of a legal question was required on the Senate floor, counsel can always be invited to speak on the matter. Such a limitation would help enforce a delineation between substantive discussion of legislation, which should be left to the Senators, and legal questions, on which counsel should speak.
I think the AG is an option, but separate counsel would be better. First, as MD noted, the Senate and Executive may have different interests. Second, having a separate legal opinion in the Senate to the one that is ultimately provided to the President if the legislation passes is more likely to result in problems being caught.
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I personally look forward to the Maltatorship in the Speakership..
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Mar 21 2016, 04:04 AM
Post #25
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.
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Another interesting option, in my opinion, would be to give the General Counsel access to the Preliminary Chamber as well, to give Senators and the Counsel the ability to semi-publicly interact as a group for things that would be more pertinent to multiple members rather than clogging the Senate floor for non-relevant questions not about legislation on the floor, etc.
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Family, Resume, and Awards Family  The Right Honourable Aexnidaral "Crist" Seymour Somerset

Son of North East Somerset and Rachel Husband of Pichtonia Seymour Somerset, Phantasus Chastain, and Ogastein Father of Isaris, Klatonia, XIV, and America Billiards Brother of JGlenn, Apollo, Brunhilde, and Ninja KittensResume and Awards "... Aex, who is treated like the Europeian version of Nickelback by a lot of people here."
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Kazaman
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Mar 21 2016, 04:14 AM
Post #26
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- Aexnidaral Seymour
- Mar 21 2016, 04:04 AM
Another interesting option, in my opinion, would be to give the General Counsel access to the Preliminary Chamber as well, to give Senators and the Counsel the ability to semi-publicly interact as a group for things that would be more pertinent to multiple members rather than clogging the Senate floor for non-relevant questions not about legislation on the floor, etc. I don't see how questions on the floor about items on the floor could be irrelevant, but I do like the idea of the counsel accessing the preliminary chambers.
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http://gamaraye.myminicity.com Partial Curriculum Vitae Government - Imperator of the Holy Imperium of Nabban, King of the Empire of Democracy - Former Imperial King of the World of Rocket Scientists, One World Government, and the Democratic Clanship of Ross; former Erlking of Asua - Former Prime Minister of Norwood - Former Deputy Prime Minister of Norwood, the Empire of Knights - Former Minister of the Interior/Immigration in Norwood (also Min. of Recruitment), Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors, the Commonwealth, Europeia (Junior Min. of Recruitment) - Former Minister of Culture in Norwood, Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors, the Extanian Imperium Empire, the Land of Dragonia, Europeia (Junior Min. of Culture) - Former Minister of Justice in Nova Imperium - Former Minister of Foreign Affairs in Norwood, Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors (Min. of Ambassadors), the Commonwealth, the Imperium, Europeia, Kantrias - Former Minister of Defence in the Commonwealth, the Imperium, Empires of Earth (Deputy Min. of War), Europeia (Grand Admiral), the Extanian Imperium Empire - Former Director of Intelligence in Norwood (NIS), the Commonwealth (CWIA), Europeia (EIA), the Imperium, Kantrias (RISK), the LKE (Auxiliary Director, IIA) Military - Former Commander of the Armed Forces of the Commonwealth, Europeia, the Imperium, the Empire of Democracy, the Holy Imperium of Nabban, Lone Wolves United, the Extanian Imperium Empire - Former Officer in the Armed Forces of Norwood, the Land of Kings and Emperors, Empires of Earth, the Commonwealth, Unknown, Lone Wolves United, Europeia, the Last Kingdom, the Extanian Imperium Empire - Led operations including soldiers from the Armed Forces of the Land of Kings and Emperors, the New Inquisition, Empires of Earth, the Commonwealth, Unknown, Lone Wolves United, Europeia, the Rejected Realms, the Kodiak Republic, the United Kingdom, the Black Hawks, the Black Riders, the Imperium, the Holy Imperium of Nabban, the Empire of Democracy, the Last Kingdom, the Extanian Imperium Empire,the Aezean Combine, the Brotherhood of Blood, etc.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Mar 21 2016, 04:17 AM
Post #27
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.
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- Kazaman
- Mar 21 2016, 04:14 AM
- Aexnidaral Seymour
- Mar 21 2016, 04:04 AM
Another interesting option, in my opinion, would be to give the General Counsel access to the Preliminary Chamber as well, to give Senators and the Counsel the ability to semi-publicly interact as a group for things that would be more pertinent to multiple members rather than clogging the Senate floor for non-relevant questions not about legislation on the floor, etc.
I don't see how questions on the floor about items on the floor could be irrelevant, but I do like the idea of the counsel accessing the preliminary chambers. That's the opposite of what I said, I think you misread. I was saying in the case of questions that weren't relevant to items on the floor.
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Family, Resume, and Awards Family  The Right Honourable Aexnidaral "Crist" Seymour Somerset

Son of North East Somerset and Rachel Husband of Pichtonia Seymour Somerset, Phantasus Chastain, and Ogastein Father of Isaris, Klatonia, XIV, and America Billiards Brother of JGlenn, Apollo, Brunhilde, and Ninja KittensResume and Awards "... Aex, who is treated like the Europeian version of Nickelback by a lot of people here."
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Kazaman
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Mar 21 2016, 04:32 AM
Post #28
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- Aexnidaral Seymour
- Mar 21 2016, 04:17 AM
- Kazaman
- Mar 21 2016, 04:14 AM
- Aexnidaral Seymour
- Mar 21 2016, 04:04 AM
Another interesting option, in my opinion, would be to give the General Counsel access to the Preliminary Chamber as well, to give Senators and the Counsel the ability to semi-publicly interact as a group for things that would be more pertinent to multiple members rather than clogging the Senate floor for non-relevant questions not about legislation on the floor, etc.
I don't see how questions on the floor about items on the floor could be irrelevant, but I do like the idea of the counsel accessing the preliminary chambers.
That's the opposite of what I said, I think you misread. I was saying in the case of questions that weren't relevant to items on the floor. Yes, I missed the second "not."
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http://gamaraye.myminicity.com Partial Curriculum Vitae Government - Imperator of the Holy Imperium of Nabban, King of the Empire of Democracy - Former Imperial King of the World of Rocket Scientists, One World Government, and the Democratic Clanship of Ross; former Erlking of Asua - Former Prime Minister of Norwood - Former Deputy Prime Minister of Norwood, the Empire of Knights - Former Minister of the Interior/Immigration in Norwood (also Min. of Recruitment), Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors, the Commonwealth, Europeia (Junior Min. of Recruitment) - Former Minister of Culture in Norwood, Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors, the Extanian Imperium Empire, the Land of Dragonia, Europeia (Junior Min. of Culture) - Former Minister of Justice in Nova Imperium - Former Minister of Foreign Affairs in Norwood, Nova Imperium, the Land of Kings and Emperors (Min. of Ambassadors), the Commonwealth, the Imperium, Europeia, Kantrias - Former Minister of Defence in the Commonwealth, the Imperium, Empires of Earth (Deputy Min. of War), Europeia (Grand Admiral), the Extanian Imperium Empire - Former Director of Intelligence in Norwood (NIS), the Commonwealth (CWIA), Europeia (EIA), the Imperium, Kantrias (RISK), the LKE (Auxiliary Director, IIA) Military - Former Commander of the Armed Forces of the Commonwealth, Europeia, the Imperium, the Empire of Democracy, the Holy Imperium of Nabban, Lone Wolves United, the Extanian Imperium Empire - Former Officer in the Armed Forces of Norwood, the Land of Kings and Emperors, Empires of Earth, the Commonwealth, Unknown, Lone Wolves United, Europeia, the Last Kingdom, the Extanian Imperium Empire - Led operations including soldiers from the Armed Forces of the Land of Kings and Emperors, the New Inquisition, Empires of Earth, the Commonwealth, Unknown, Lone Wolves United, Europeia, the Rejected Realms, the Kodiak Republic, the United Kingdom, the Black Hawks, the Black Riders, the Imperium, the Holy Imperium of Nabban, the Empire of Democracy, the Last Kingdom, the Extanian Imperium Empire,the Aezean Combine, the Brotherhood of Blood, etc.
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Common-Sense Politics
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Mar 21 2016, 10:56 PM
Post #29
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Incapable of Bullshit
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It's probably time for the Senate to make its decision, in my opinion. There is nothing new to be learned at this stage about the two candidates, both of which will make fine speakers.
I would note that I think a false narrative has been formed in which the choice is between having a Senate led by Notolecta that is more focused on a law review (which I'm not convinced is in this group's wheelhouse or even that it's necessary) and a Senate led by Aexnidaral which is significantly less focused on this project.
Noto will take the lead on a law review and do his utmost regardless of whether he is speaker or not. Being speaker doesn't have a significant impact on his ability to do so, in my opinion though his argument to the contrary isn't a foolish one. It just may be overstated.
In short, shit or get off the pot.
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Fortunado
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Mar 22 2016, 12:01 AM
Post #30
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We are mostly waiting for the ending deadline as dictated by the Senate Protocol Act. While it may be a little long, stating: "minimum of 48 hours" before any kind of "vote shall commence [...] for their preferred Candidate" (ln 23). For now, I plan to ask questions, as this is the mandated time to do such, even if it seems iffy that we need to question further. It may be good to review that as soon as this is over. The only clause for expediting this process is if we have "unanimous consent" to "immediately appoint a specific Candidate" (ln 26). With two candidates, it is clear we do not have unanimity.
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I consider myself an idealist, mostly because realists are just pessimists who don't do anything. Check out the latest article from the EBC here! 11/12/15
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I'm pretty sure that violates every clause in the Geneva Convention.
The intent isn't to use him, it is to have him and not use him... very deliberately and clearly not use him, but let everyone know that we could use him if we so wished but we don't want to use him... because everyone is so nice and we appreciate how nice everyone is... :evil:[/quote] cpt.carrot How I host a barbecue with cpt. carrot - Cpt.Carrot
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*twitches* Why is there always someone wanting to eat me (  ) or severly injure me?
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- Fortunado
- Mar 16 2015, 05:24 AM
I do dabble in inter-dimensional rifts as well. Have you tried going to the void? I own real estate there. Oh! Don't do hell though. Without cell coverage (no cells in hell) you need to get a copy of the necronomicon from Cthulu but he wants item A. and to get A you need to trade for B which you get from another guy for C. One large fetch quest. Do you have vegan interdimensional tears?
I really like this guy
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we have much planning to do for you carrot. you have sealed your fate *begins reading necronomicon. The gates of hell open up go reveal tentacle-like horrors of the deep as they swell up from the grave and drag Cpt.Carrot kicking and screaming. He continues to try and hold on as the written inscriptions from the necronomicon reverberate and echo louder and louder in the sky. The terrors from the deep slowly drain both his willpower but sanity (points) and in a second it is over.* I am beginning to see a beautiful friendship svunbrink. 
Now wasn't that a fun chapter! *looks around to see the audience has turned into shriveled up corpses, All roughly the size of an actual doll. You can see what looks to be dried blood which had previously been running from their eyes, mouth, nose, and ears. They have been dead for a long time.* good when you won Mar 16 2015, 03:23 PM Cpt.Carrot: That is a Fabrication of your twisted and Brilliant (  ) imagination Mar 16 2015, 03:26 PM Fortunado: oh good job patronizing me... but for not conceding anything I might have to send thanatos after you again to literally rip your soul from yo-- yeah you remember what happened. (X) The Kraken-Sloth War - Quote:
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