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Growing Up as a White Minority
Topic Started: Nov 6 2014, 04:16 PM (644 Views)
Rach
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I grew up in a neighborhood that has always been heavily immigrant based. First it was British, then it became predominantly Italian and Polish. In recent years it has been a place with a ton of immigrants from South Asia (India and Sri Lanka), African (in particular Nigeria), South East Asia (in particular Vietnamese & the Philippines) , the Caribbean (Jamaica & Trinidad and Tobago) as well as central America from countries such as El Salvador. If one looked at the highschool graduation photos, one could see that in the early days of the schools there that everyone who graduated was from a European background. But in recent years it was the opposite, with only a handful of kids with European backgrounds.

So funnily enough for me, when I go to places in which the population is predominantly white I feel a little out of place. For me, it seemed so natural to have friends of all backgrounds and colours. Whether it was my very silly friend whose parents were from Trinidad and Tobago, these two friendly rivals from Sri Lanka (one was actually Singhalese and the other Tamil), or an Indian friend or my Polish and Italian friend, there never was any sort of racial discord or tension. This seemed perfectly natural to me. Despite the fact that the area I live in isn’t considered to be one of the best in Toronto, there is a big mark of pride from having had that opportunity as an upbringing. Living in a very multicultural and diverse area has let me experience many cultures and not fear the “other”.

I had taught this one guy, a Sikh from India swimming and a few years later we were talking since his two daughters were in swimming classes. Unfortunately he was complaining a bit about some of the swim teachers but what was cool was that we started talking about religion and Guru Nanak as well as religious tolerance. It had helped that in Highschool I avoided taking philosophy and instead took “World Religions” primarily because philosophy was harder and I wanted to ensure my grades were high to get into University. Thus, I was able to be at least somewhat knowledgeable. It actually makes me wonder if we should be pushing people to take such classes more, classes were the participants learn about the different religions in the world. Disappointingly, we never did end up learning about the religion my uncle adopted called the Bahá'í Faith.

It has become obviously clear that the fear of a “non-white” world is a serious concern for many people. In many parts of Europe for example we are seeing a rise in public intolerance. Even in Toronto itself, it’s clear that there are large parts of the population who are racist and who heckle people like Olivia Chow for being an immigrant from Hong Kong. Racism is stupid but unfortunately, I don’t know if there is a solution. I used to worry a bit about Canada being predominately non-white (something that is set to happen with this century) but I don’t think it is such a scary thing. I guess the point is just that to be able to see many cultures and learn things is really cool and I’m lucky to have been a white minority.

As a little aside, if I had grown up in predominately white neighborhood I would have never learned about the card game “Big Two” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Two. Likely I would have only played games like Crazy Eights & President which in my opinion are not nearly as good as Big Two.
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Lethen
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The fear of a "non-white world" is a total joke. Cultural assimilation is awesome, and people that always whine about one culture being supplanted by the other are ignorant and thinly-veiled racists.
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You have "rivals" in RL?
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Common-Sense Politics
Nov 6 2014, 06:21 PM
You have "rivals" in RL?
This is Rach we're talking about :P
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Common-Sense Politics
Nov 6 2014, 06:21 PM
You have "rivals" in RL?
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Speaking of rivals, I had a cousin who kicked my lunch box down the hall in the first grade, years later I found out my other cousin kicked his in the opposite direction for what he did to me.
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I understand what you're talking about Rach, changing from Africa to Britain has been quite an experience particularly the difference in demographics. A lot more Asians, less Africans and a hell of lot of Europeans.

But I do understand the fear of cultures being supplanted and I really wish there hadn't been so much "Civilising" under the European colonial powers, but it is interesting that although many social thinkers (a couple of my family are like this) will criticise the actions of colonial powers, they will attack any concern about a similar situation in western nations.
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Rach
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Common-Sense Politics
Nov 6 2014, 06:21 PM
You have "rivals" in RL?
This made my afternoon. I should have been more clear, they weren't my rivals but were rivals to each other. It mainly was a friendly competition in soccer but also was in academics too I believe. All I know is that whenever I played soccer with them they were the ones always competing against each other.

Which was funny because one was the one instigating it more while the other more shy.
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Rach
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Nov 6 2014, 07:35 PM
I understand what you're talking about Rach, changing from Africa to Britain has been quite an experience particularly the difference in demographics. A lot more Asians, less Africans and a hell of lot of Europeans.

But I do understand the fear of cultures being supplanted and I really wish there hadn't been so much "Civilising" under the European colonial powers, but it is interesting that although many social thinkers (a couple of my family are like this) will criticise the actions of colonial powers, they will attack any concern about a similar situation in western nations.
The issue you raise is indeed a difficult one. Essentially what is Britain or what is any country? Canada & the United States by nature are better equipped at dealing with them from an ideological standpoint simply because of the fact that both of those countries are built upon immigration. How can I, a second generation immigrant criticize other people who wish to move to this country? My grandparents on both sides moved from the Netherlands and from Italy in order to have a better life here. They weren’t particularly educated either. On the Dutch side, I believe they finished high school but on the Italian side they both did not complete elementary school. Thus, how can I criticize immigrants who wish to move to Canada for a better life and to contribute to society in much the same way that my own family did? Especially when many immigrants to Canada are far better educated than my own family was.

Even the oldest European based families in Canada and America are immigrants. So these are countries based on a strong civic identity. To be Canadian is to live here and to have citizenship. We are bound together by a core set of principles. There is not identity based on a “people”. Thus, it becomes rather easy to accept different immigrants when the identity is not based on a specific type of person. When it comes to Europe, I would assume it is a little more awkward. Are the British still British if most people aren’t Anglo-Saxon? Are the French still French if most aren’t Roman Catholic? That is a tremendously hard thing I would think for these countries and people within them.

I feel however that the need for people and a strong reason for the dislike of immigrants has to deal with economics. Primarily urban and developed populations don’t grow as much. Thus, immigration is needed. Japan itself will really need to deal with this soon although they will also struggle with this question of integration and people. The other issue is that Europe is struggling economically which never is a good time for change. Especially because immigrants and immigration tend to be blamed. On a slightly ironic note, almost every single part of modern Europe has been formed from invasions that have occurred within the past 2000 years. The Angles, Saxons and Jutes came to Britain in the 5th century for example.

I don’t think you can compare colonialism to immigration but of course there has to be dialogue about the changes posed to society. Europe tends to have a really bad history when it comes to tolerance and I think that perhaps we over-estimated the degree to which Europe had changed and had become more liberal.
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Rach
Nov 6 2014, 10:36 PM
The issue you raise is indeed a difficult one. Essentially what is Britain or what is any country? Canada & the United States by nature are better equipped at dealing with them from an ideological standpoint simply because of the fact that both of those countries are built upon immigration. How can I, a second generation immigrant criticize other people who wish to move to this country? My grandparents on both sides moved from the Netherlands and from Italy in order to have a better life here. They weren’t particularly educated either. On the Dutch side, I believe they finished high school but on the Italian side they both did not complete elementary school. Thus, how can I criticize immigrants who wish to move to Canada for a better life and to contribute to society in much the same way that my own family did? Especially when many immigrants to Canada are far better educated than my own family was.

Even the oldest European based families in Canada and America are immigrants. So these are countries based on a strong civic identity. To be Canadian is to live here and to have citizenship. We are bound together by a core set of principles. There is not identity based on a “people”. Thus, it becomes rather easy to accept different immigrants when the identity is not based on a specific type of person. When it comes to Europe, I would assume it is a little more awkward. Are the British still British if most people aren’t Anglo-Saxon? Are the French still French if most aren’t Roman Catholic? That is a tremendously hard thing I would think for these countries and people within them.

I feel however that the need for people and a strong reason for the dislike of immigrants has to deal with economics. Primarily urban and developed populations don’t grow as much. Thus, immigration is needed. Japan itself will really need to deal with this soon although they will also struggle with this question of integration and people. The other issue is that Europe is struggling economically which never is a good time for change. Especially because immigrants and immigration tend to be blamed. On a slightly ironic note, almost every single part of modern Europe has been formed from invasions that have occurred within the past 2000 years. The Angles, Saxons and Jutes came to Britain in the 5th century for example.

I don’t think you can compare colonialism to immigration but of course there has to be dialogue about the changes posed to society. Europe tends to have a really bad history when it comes to tolerance and I think that perhaps we over-estimated the degree to which Europe had changed and had become more liberal.
I agree you can't directly compare the colonialism to immigration, but the results are reasonably similar.

As to culture; it transcends inheritance, I have met a couple chaps who are a lot darker than I and undoubtedly more British and I am far more African than they, despite my mother being half English, half Scot and raising me as British.
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I always thought you were 100% Carrot.
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Lethen
 
The fear of a "non-white world" is a total joke.
The world is already "non-white".
Lethen
 
Cultural assimilation is awesome
No, integration is.

In Sweden, "assimilation instead of integration" is a disguise for racists.
Lethen
 
people that always whine about one culture being supplanted by the other are ignorant and thinly-veiled racists.
Assimilation supplants minorities' cultures.
Cpt.Carrot
 
I do understand the fear of cultures being supplanted
Why? Western culture isn't being supplanted.
Cpt.Carrot
 
it is interesting that although many social thinkers (a couple of my family are like this) will criticise the actions of colonial powers, they will attack any concern about a similar situation in western nations.
No. Why? They are incomparable, practically.
Rach
 
Canada & the United States by nature are better equipped at dealing with them from an ideological standpoint simply because of the fact that both of those countries are built upon immigration.
Other than rhetorically, I can't see how. Norway's net immigration per capita is higher than Canada's and Sweden's is higher than America's. Norway, Sweden and especially America has segregation problems while Canada seems well integrated.


I don't know how I wrote this while drunk.
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Don't you write most of your Euro posts while drunk? :P
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Charli
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Nov 7 2014, 09:58 PM
Don't you write most of your Euro posts while drunk? :P
Basicly, yeah.
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Charli
Nov 7 2014, 09:55 PM
Cpt.Carrot
 
I do understand the fear of cultures being supplanted
Why? Western culture isn't being supplanted.
It may/may not be happening, but the fear is there.

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Cpt.Carrot
 
it is interesting that although many social thinkers (a couple of my family are like this) will criticise the actions of colonial powers, they will attack any concern about a similar situation in western nations.
No. Why? They are incomparable, practically.

Perhaps I should have been more careful with my wording (as usual). I am referring to the acts of colonial powers that led to the subversion or removal native culture, not the entire mess of the colonial period, particularly mass immigration to the colonised nations. Frequently any discussion on whether such a thing could happen in the West, it results in those raising the concerns being shouted as racists.
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