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Afrikaners were Monsterous: A history of South Africa; A response to LegendofPie
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Topic Started: Oct 2 2014, 03:45 PM (309 Views)
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Zenny Winter
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Oct 2 2014, 07:01 PM
Post #16
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i like da brack ppl
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Cpt.Carrot
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Oct 2 2014, 08:00 PM
Post #17
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Boogy Woogy Bugle Boy of Company "B"
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- Zenny Fominov
- Oct 2 2014, 07:01 PM
i like da brack ppl Hai Wena! Do you support Israel? Because, if yes, a lot won't like you.
- Rach
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LegendofPie argues that they have always been trying to attain freedom and that they have this great long battle. He may not be implicitly wrong that Afrikaners are currently facing a level of persecution, but he argues it in such a way as to describe the Afrikaners as a minority group that has always struggled. To the best of my knowledge, they do not even struggle economically or if they do they do not to the degree that blacks do. You can argue against persecution and list examples of it, but you can't say after centuries of oppressive rule that you were always yearning for freedom and had a great dream.
I have had to work hard to allow myself to have sympathy for the Afrikaners from the '80s, '90s and 2000s, My mother(British) loathes almost all Afrikaners, mainly because of my father and his friends,(and she is a rational person who is extremely understanding of people). Every time I saw my Ouma she would begin telling us about how her ma had survived the British concentration camps "despite them trying to feed her crushed glass". It gets tiresome, but again it is a matter of education, most will have heard how their Oumas were taken to camps and their Oupas were shipped across the sea. The whole sordid mess of Africa and historical intricacies it's easy to lose sight of what happened.
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Motivations Desiderata ~ By Max Ehrmann Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy. - By Max Ehrmann The Thousanth Man ~ Rudyard Kipling 0NE man in a thousand, Solomon says. Will stick more close than a brother. And it's worth while seeking him half your days If you find him before the other. Nine hundred and ninety-nine depend On what the world sees in you, But the Thousandth Man will stand your friend With the whole round world agin you.
'Tis neither promise nor prayer nor show Will settle the finding for 'ee. Nine hundred and ninety-nine of 'em go By your looks, or your acts, or your glory.
But if he finds you and you find him, The rest of the world don't matter; For the Thousandth Man will sink or swim With you in any water.
You can use his purse with no more talk Than he uses yours for his spendings, And laugh and meet in your daily walk As though there had been no lendings.
Nine hundred and ninety-nine of 'em call For silver and gold in their dealings; But the Thousandth Man he's worth 'em all Because you can show him your feelings.
His wrong's your wrong, and his right's your right, In season or out of season. Stand up and back it in all men's sight With that for your only reason!
Nine hundred and ninety-nine can't bide The shame or mocking or laughter, But the Thousandth Man will stand by your side To the gallows-foot - and after!
"Get these Motherfucking Anumias out of my Motherfucking region!" - Noto, whilst operating heavy weaponry during the June 2016 Civil War
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Skizzy Grey
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Oct 3 2014, 12:11 AM
Post #18
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insert random title here
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- Notolecta
- Oct 2 2014, 04:59 PM
I do have to wonder wether you think past wrongs can justify current ones? I never understood why people think its olay to opress people that use to opress you, or conduct violance against someone that did so to you previously. Its also a bit absurd to lump all of a people into something. Not to mention you are using a marxist source, which isnt always bad, but you shouldnt take it as a reliable source for anything the mentions economics because it is inherently bias and is an extreme. That's not to say this information is wrong or that what happened was okay. I would answer that question with a question: after 300 years of systematic oppression, can you simply adopt facially neutral rules and call the situation "equality?"
Among the range of reasonably possible outcomes in South Africa, the present situation is pretty good for Afrikaners, all things considered.
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Charli
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Oct 3 2014, 12:41 AM
Post #19
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I fucking love Rach right now.
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Signature 
"Feminism, or Feminazism in full, is the ideology and practice usually characterised as a form of fascism that incorporates scientific matriarchy and misandry." - Wikipedia
[hide=Footer] The Honourable Charlotte ShawChondrichthyes Bay Commission Territorial Office Empire of Teleostomi Bay
 [Hide=Résumé] - Senator, July 7, 2013-
- Associate Member of the Citizens' Assembly, July 12, 2013-
- Volunteer Midshipwoman of the Europeian Republican Navy, October 25, 2013-
- Editor, The Zenyan, November 12, 2013-
- Journalist, The European Europeian, August 26, 2013-
- Memper of the Europeian Reform Coalition, July 15, 2013-
- Assemblywoman, May 2-July 7, 2013
- Member of the Free Conservative Party, June 26-July 24, 2013
- Member of the Committee on Senate Reform, June 12-17, 2013


 [/hide] [hide=Family] - Daughter and heiress of Huxwells Shaw, Founding Brother of the Shaw family
- Sister of Katepano Shaw and Francis Shaw
- Niece of Artimis Shaw, Founding Brother of the Shaw family
- Cousin of Nacek Shaw, heir of Artimis Shaw, and Castor Shaw
The Shaw Family 
From the bathtub of Huxwells Shaw Founding Brother of the Shaw Family Shaw Family SynopsisSacred Family Founding Story Once upon a time, not so very long ago, two Brothers-in-Arms started their adventure in a place called Europeia. In their joint battle for democracy and equality, they fought the fiercest of enemies and defended the poorest of people. Travelling the hills and plains (and don't forget the rainbows) of Europeia for more than a month, the two brothers had already seen a lot of corruption and terror. They had dueled with Julian Anumia and his clan of crazy Amish people that wanted to spread their wisdom all over the world. After escaping from their marble hands, they had ended up being hunted by the headshrinking Vinage tribe. Evading their stones and arrows, the Brothers had yet again escaped an agonizing death. Finally they got a little bit tired and decided to sit down, wondering how they could strengthen what they still thought was a cause worth fighting for.
As they sat there, watching the slow current of a river – a divine light appeared at the horizon, rushing for them. They did not know how to react, but felt soothed as the thing drew closer by. The illumination landed in between them, urging them, silently, to walk towards it. Both brothers did so and as they walked further into the light, they could literally see all of the knowledge in the Universe. They were immersed in this world where it seemed that everything was possible and they knew that now was the time to create alliances. They knew that their brotherhood was strong, but would not be strong enough.
The immersion ended suddenly and the light was gone, yet not entirely. Both Artimis and Huxwells Shaw were now carrying a sparkle of it in their eyes. More confident than ever before, the Brothers-in-Arms finally went forth into the lands of Europeia – convinced that they would find strong sons and daughters that were willing to fight for the same ideals. Soon after, Huxwells had to sneeze due to hay fever. What happened went beyond imagination. Three human beings had sprung from his nose, kneeled in front of him. "I am your loyal and intelligent daughter, Charlotte", said the first one. "I am your son, the brave Katepano", stated the second. "I am... well I am Francis, your son", so said the last one. Huxwells quickly told them to rise to their knees, as he knew this wasn't a coincidence.
Not too much later, Artimis thought it was time to clip his toenails - even a brave soldier has to do this sometimes, right? As it had happened with Huxwells, Artimis saw two human beings rising from the first two nails. They appeared to go by the name of Nacek and Castor. Artimis too told them to rise and join their cause.
After a tiresome party in the Europeian disco (Kaiser just raged on and on about how shiny his helmet was), both Artimis and Huxwells were stumbling home with Demataria. Waking up the next morning, Huxwells had realised how good a friend Demataria was - he had even taken off his pants for him! Thus the Brothers-in-Arms went to knock on Dem's door to ask him whether he wanted to join in on their cause. Demataria accepted and would from then on be a Grand Maester to the noble, yet mocking, family called Shaw.
27/08/2013, Huxwells Shaw On this day, 28th August 2013, Artimis and Huxwells Shaw, Founding Brothers of the Shaw Family and the First of Their Name, Hereby announces that They intend to establish a New Family in Our Grand Realm. Both Artimis and Huxwells Shaw saw the need for a Family that unites truly intelligent People that fight for Democracy and wish to Mock all other Families. They shall Both go by the Name of “Founding Brother”. Charlotte, a New yet Very Dedicated Member of our Region shall be Adopted by Huxwells Shaw and thus become his Heiress. Katepano and Francis, both very Promising Newcomers shall also be Adopted by Huxwells Shaw. Nacek and Castor, two Enthousiastic Newcomers that Teach at the University, shall be Adopted by Artimis Shaw. Nacek shall also become his Heir. As a Great Friend and Brilliant Politician, Demataria shall join the Family as Grand Maester. An Honorary Name that places him next to both Artimis and Huxwells Shaw. He too now goes by the Name of Shaw. All Members of the Shaw Family can, but will never be obliged to, wear the Name Shaw. There are only two Rules as to Being a Shaw. Firstly, A Shaw always Strives to Mock other Families. Secondly, A Shaw never Marries or Adopts an Indidvidual that already wears another Family Name. Should the Powers that be in Europeia find this Announcement suitable, Family Shaw requests that this Registration is processed immediately.
Extra information: The True Joy in Life, Poem about our Family Shield This is the true joy in life, being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one. Being a force of nature instead of a feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community and as I live it is my privilege - my privilege to do for it whatever I can. I want to be thoroughly used up when I die, for the harder I work the more I love. I rejoice in life for its own sake. Life is no brief candle to me; it is a sort of splendid torch which I've got a hold of for the moment and I want to make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations. - George Bernard Shaw Family Tree [/hide][/hide]
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Legendofpie
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Oct 7 2014, 07:42 PM
Post #20
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Edit* Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*
Interesting post Rach. However I feel its a little uncalled for? but hey you can do as you please,
the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ? NO, most of the Boers settled on unclaimed land, made deals with the locals to even buy some of their land! like the situation with Piet Retief and Dingaan (the Zulu king who murders his half brother to gain power (SHAKA ZULU) ) who warmly invited the Boer Leader and Most of his men to join him inside his Kraal to witness the agreement and then surprised the Boers with a lovely dish of MURDER.
What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.
We did not put smallpox on blankets and handed them out to the natives during winter to show our kindness to the locals ] ****Cough *** The British ****Cough **** seeing that some of you are decedent from the British you must all share the same sin against humanity *Sarcasm* *Cough*
History is written by the Victors, and the Afrikaners did not win.
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Charli
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Oct 7 2014, 08:48 PM
Post #21
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- Legendofpie
- Oct 7 2014, 07:42 PM
seeing that some of you are decedent from the British you must all share the same sin against humanity No. You aren't responsible for your ancestors.
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Legendofpie
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Oct 7 2014, 08:51 PM
Post #22
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Pie Flavour
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- Charli
- Oct 7 2014, 08:48 PM
- Legendofpie
- Oct 7 2014, 07:42 PM
seeing that some of you are decedent from the British you must all share the same sin against humanity
No. You aren't responsible for your ancestors. My point exactly!
Then how come for some reason Rach think we are?
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Charli
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Oct 7 2014, 08:59 PM
Post #23
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- Legendofpie
- Oct 7 2014, 08:51 PM
how come for some reason Rach think we are? Ask Rach.
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Rach
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Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
Post #24
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At Least 5% Sugar
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- Quote:
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Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*
If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock.
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the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ?
While the Afrikaners may not have made it their mission to be cruel to the natives, they were horrendously cruel. This was a continuation of the initial colonialism. If you agree that apartheid was wrong, then you must know that the Afrikaners in their long history of South Africa prior to the end of Apartheid were wrong. Any good they may have done prior to the end of Apartheid is surpassed by the evils committed against the natives. Furthermore, the Great Trek was not done for freedom. It was done for economic reasons and to further their domination over natives.
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What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.
You are more than welcome to address the struggles of the present but you can't glorify the past and events such as the great trek which resulted in the creation of brutal regimes. We also don't live in an age where "History is written by the victors", there are so many Universities out there and a lot of freedom in Western society in particular to write history. Furthermore, these books were written prior to the end of apartheid. So yes, by all means you can describe the struggles of the present but don't give me this crap about past victimhood and bizarre founding myths.
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♥ Love and Kindness are never wasted ♥ The 2011 President of the Year Queen of Balder Unofficial Navy Girl
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Zenny Winter
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Oct 8 2014, 10:23 AM
Post #25
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- Cpt.Carrot
- Oct 2 2014, 08:00 PM
- Zenny Fominov
- Oct 2 2014, 07:01 PM
i like da brack ppl
Hai Wena! Do you support Israel? Because, if yes, a lot won't like you. Depends on what support means I love Israel, its a beautiful nation and a great place to live (hence why my family lived there for well over 40 years). But I also think that Palestinians are treated as second class citizens which I don't like at all.
On Afrikaners, I feel like the keyword of all this is: were. They were like this and that and blah blah blah. We certainly don't hold the German people or the Japanese or the Americans or the Russians to the same standards for their countless crimes against humanity and atrocities, but if Afrikaners want an independent nation, we instantly need to look back to 20+ years ago and talk about how they were monsters.
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Legendofpie
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Oct 8 2014, 10:51 AM
Post #26
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- Rach
- Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
- Quote:
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Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*
If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock. - Quote:
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the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ?
While the Afrikaners may not have made it their mission to be cruel to the natives, they were horrendously cruel. This was a continuation of the initial colonialism. If you agree that apartheid was wrong, then you must know that the Afrikaners in their long history of South Africa prior to the end of Apartheid were wrong. Any good they may have done prior to the end of Apartheid is surpassed by the evils committed against the natives. Furthermore, the Great Trek was not done for freedom. It was done for economic reasons and to further their domination over natives. - Quote:
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What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.
You are more than welcome to address the struggles of the present but you can't glorify the past and events such as the great trek which resulted in the creation of brutal regimes. We also don't live in an age where "History is written by the victors", there are so many Universities out there and a lot of freedom in Western society in particular to write history. Furthermore, these books were written prior to the end of apartheid. So yes, by all means you can describe the struggles of the present but don't give me this crap about past victimhood and bizarre founding myths. The Afrikaners did not take part in the great trek to further their economoy and to dominate the natives? Where do you read this shizz?
We did it to escape the oppression of the cape goverment which was under British rule, to escape the hardship of living on the borders of the cape colony where we were first to be attacked by Xhosa warriors who attacked these "grensboere" (borderfarmers) for actions done by goverment, and goverment failing to protect us against them,
That is the reason we moved. The reason we found the Boer republics (Zuid afrikaanse Republic and the Free State) to be free,
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Legendofpie
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Oct 8 2014, 11:00 AM
Post #27
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- Rach
- Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
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Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*
If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock. And I am not calling the article hatespeach however I was reffering to the title.
As clearly stated in my response!
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Legendofpie
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Oct 8 2014, 11:07 AM
Post #28
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- Rach
- Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
- Quote:
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Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*
If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock. And I am not calling the article hatespeach however I was reffering to the title.
As clearly stated in my response!
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Rach
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Oct 8 2014, 02:06 PM
Post #29
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At Least 5% Sugar
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- Legendofpie
- Oct 8 2014, 10:51 AM
- Rach
- Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
- Quote:
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Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*
If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock. - Quote:
-
the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ?
While the Afrikaners may not have made it their mission to be cruel to the natives, they were horrendously cruel. This was a continuation of the initial colonialism. If you agree that apartheid was wrong, then you must know that the Afrikaners in their long history of South Africa prior to the end of Apartheid were wrong. Any good they may have done prior to the end of Apartheid is surpassed by the evils committed against the natives. Furthermore, the Great Trek was not done for freedom. It was done for economic reasons and to further their domination over natives. - Quote:
-
What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.
You are more than welcome to address the struggles of the present but you can't glorify the past and events such as the great trek which resulted in the creation of brutal regimes. We also don't live in an age where "History is written by the victors", there are so many Universities out there and a lot of freedom in Western society in particular to write history. Furthermore, these books were written prior to the end of apartheid. So yes, by all means you can describe the struggles of the present but don't give me this crap about past victimhood and bizarre founding myths.
The Afrikaners did not take part in the great trek to further their economoy and to dominate the natives? Where do you read this shizz? We did it to escape the oppression of the cape goverment which was under British rule, to escape the hardship of living on the borders of the cape colony where we were first to be attacked by Xhosa warriors who attacked these "grensboere" (borderfarmers) for actions done by goverment, and goverment failing to protect us against them, That is the reason we moved. The reason we found the Boer republics (Zuid afrikaanse Republic and the Free State) to be free, I read this "Shizz" in academic books. There was no hardship under the British, as evidenced by the fact that when South Africa was given self governance two of the first three leaders were Afrikaners! The British worked hand in hand with the Afrikaners. The two afrikaner republics were based on the oppression of blacks and even went so far to abduct black children to work for them.
I do not hold the belief that Afrikaners are evil but you can't glorify any pre-end of apartheid history on the part of the Dutch. That history is something all Afrikaners should be ashamed of as the dark parts of history for other nations are held in shame. Whether it is the Nazi regime in Germany, the way Canadians treated aboriginals or the way Americans engaged in slavery. These are parts of history that are repulsive.
You believe in whitewashing. Those Dutch republics were some of the worst regimes ever seen in the world.
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♥ Love and Kindness are never wasted ♥ The 2011 President of the Year Queen of Balder Unofficial Navy Girl
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Legendofpie
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Oct 9 2014, 12:59 AM
Post #30
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- Rach
- Oct 8 2014, 02:06 PM
You believe in whitewashing. Those Dutch republics were some of the worst regimes ever seen in the world.
How can you say that where is your proof of this acusation??
There has never been a dutch republic in south africa. Thats like calling the North and the south (union and confederasy )the British republics which is entirely false,
Afrikaners are decendant primeraly from dutch, but also french german And somewhat from Italian Irish scotish and British.
They never were dutch republics, they were Boer republics.
Dont label something of thst which it is not, you would never call a bottel of appel juice, tamato sauce, and then describing the taste of apple juice based on your experience from tasting tamato sauce.
This is the first time I have even ever heard of those republics "being some of the worst regimes on the planet" which is false.
There was never Apartheid in these states/republics. We never kidnapped little black children to work for us (slavery = against the law of these republics there has never been slavery laws in these republics)
Edit: What the dutch republic was and the only mention of dutch republic(s) I could find thanks to wikipedia :
The Dutch Republic—officially known as the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden), Republic of the United Netherlands, or Republic of the Seven United Provinces (Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Provinciën)—was a republic in Europe existing from 1581, when part of the Netherlands separated from Spanish rule, until 1795. It preceded the Batavian Republic, the Kingdom of Holland, the United Kingdom of the Netherlands and ultimately the modern Kingdom of the Netherlands. Alternative names include the United Provinces (Verenigde Provinciën), Federated Dutch Provinces (Foederatae Belgii Provinciae), and Dutch Federation (Belgica Foederata)
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