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Afrikaners were Monsterous: A history of South Africa; A response to LegendofPie
Topic Started: Oct 2 2014, 03:45 PM (309 Views)
Zenny Winter


i like da brack ppl
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Cpt.Carrot
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Zenny Fominov
Oct 2 2014, 07:01 PM
i like da brack ppl
Hai Wena! Do you support Israel? Because, if yes, a lot won't like you.

Rach
 
LegendofPie argues that they have always been trying to attain freedom and that they have this great long battle. He may not be implicitly wrong that Afrikaners are currently facing a level of persecution, but he argues it in such a way as to describe the Afrikaners as a minority group that has always struggled. To the best of my knowledge, they do not even struggle economically or if they do they do not to the degree that blacks do. You can argue against persecution and list examples of it, but you can't say after centuries of oppressive rule that you were always yearning for freedom and had a great dream.

I have had to work hard to allow myself to have sympathy for the Afrikaners from the '80s, '90s and 2000s, My mother(British) loathes almost all Afrikaners, mainly because of my father and his friends,(and she is a rational person who is extremely understanding of people). Every time I saw my Ouma she would begin telling us about how her ma had survived the British concentration camps "despite them trying to feed her crushed glass". It gets tiresome, but again it is a matter of education, most will have heard how their Oumas were taken to camps and their Oupas were shipped across the sea. The whole sordid mess of Africa and historical intricacies it's easy to lose sight of what happened.
Edited by Cpt.Carrot, Oct 2 2014, 08:03 PM.
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Skizzy Grey
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Notolecta
Oct 2 2014, 04:59 PM
I do have to wonder wether you think past wrongs can justify current ones? I never understood why people think its olay to opress people that use to opress you, or conduct violance against someone that did so to you previously. Its also a bit absurd to lump all of a people into something. Not to mention you are using a marxist source, which isnt always bad, but you shouldnt take it as a reliable source for anything the mentions economics because it is inherently bias and is an extreme. That's not to say this information is wrong or that what happened was okay.
I would answer that question with a question: after 300 years of systematic oppression, can you simply adopt facially neutral rules and call the situation "equality?"

Among the range of reasonably possible outcomes in South Africa, the present situation is pretty good for Afrikaners, all things considered.
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Charli
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I fucking love Rach right now.
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Legendofpie
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Edit* Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*

:clap: Interesting post Rach. However I feel its a little uncalled for? but hey you can do as you please,

the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ? NO, most of the Boers settled on unclaimed land, made deals with the locals to even buy some of their land! like the situation with Piet Retief and Dingaan (the Zulu king who murders his half brother to gain power (SHAKA ZULU) ) who warmly invited the
Boer Leader and Most of his men to join him inside his Kraal to witness the agreement and then surprised the Boers with a lovely dish of MURDER.

What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.

We did not put smallpox on blankets and handed them out to the natives during winter to show our kindness to the locals :creepy: ] ****Cough *** The British ****Cough **** seeing that some of you are decedent from the British you must all share the same sin against humanity :shifty: *Sarcasm* *Cough*

History is written by the Victors, and the Afrikaners did not win.
Edited by Legendofpie, Oct 7 2014, 08:53 PM.
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Charli
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Legendofpie
Oct 7 2014, 07:42 PM
seeing that some of you are decedent from the British you must all share the same sin against humanity
No. You aren't responsible for your ancestors.
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Legendofpie
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Charli
Oct 7 2014, 08:48 PM
Legendofpie
Oct 7 2014, 07:42 PM
seeing that some of you are decedent from the British you must all share the same sin against humanity
No. You aren't responsible for your ancestors.
My point exactly!

Then how come for some reason Rach think we are?
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Charli
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Legendofpie
Oct 7 2014, 08:51 PM
how come for some reason Rach think we are?
Ask Rach.
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Rach
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Quote:
 
Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*

If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock.

Quote:
 
the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ?

While the Afrikaners may not have made it their mission to be cruel to the natives, they were horrendously cruel. This was a continuation of the initial colonialism. If you agree that apartheid was wrong, then you must know that the Afrikaners in their long history of South Africa prior to the end of Apartheid were wrong. Any good they may have done prior to the end of Apartheid is surpassed by the evils committed against the natives. Furthermore, the Great Trek was not done for freedom. It was done for economic reasons and to further their domination over natives.

Quote:
 
What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.

You are more than welcome to address the struggles of the present but you can't glorify the past and events such as the great trek which resulted in the creation of brutal regimes. We also don't live in an age where "History is written by the victors", there are so many Universities out there and a lot of freedom in Western society in particular to write history. Furthermore, these books were written prior to the end of apartheid. So yes, by all means you can describe the struggles of the present but don't give me this crap about past victimhood and bizarre founding myths.
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Zenny Winter


Cpt.Carrot
Oct 2 2014, 08:00 PM
Zenny Fominov
Oct 2 2014, 07:01 PM
i like da brack ppl
Hai Wena! Do you support Israel? Because, if yes, a lot won't like you.
Depends on what support means :P
I love Israel, its a beautiful nation and a great place to live (hence why my family lived there for well over 40 years). But I also think that Palestinians are treated as second class citizens which I don't like at all.



On Afrikaners, I feel like the keyword of all this is: were. They were like this and that and blah blah blah. We certainly don't hold the German people or the Japanese or the Americans or the Russians to the same standards for their countless crimes against humanity and atrocities, but if Afrikaners want an independent nation, we instantly need to look back to 20+ years ago and talk about how they were monsters.
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Legendofpie
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Rach
Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
Quote:
 
Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*

If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock.

Quote:
 
the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ?

While the Afrikaners may not have made it their mission to be cruel to the natives, they were horrendously cruel. This was a continuation of the initial colonialism. If you agree that apartheid was wrong, then you must know that the Afrikaners in their long history of South Africa prior to the end of Apartheid were wrong. Any good they may have done prior to the end of Apartheid is surpassed by the evils committed against the natives. Furthermore, the Great Trek was not done for freedom. It was done for economic reasons and to further their domination over natives.

Quote:
 
What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.

You are more than welcome to address the struggles of the present but you can't glorify the past and events such as the great trek which resulted in the creation of brutal regimes. We also don't live in an age where "History is written by the victors", there are so many Universities out there and a lot of freedom in Western society in particular to write history. Furthermore, these books were written prior to the end of apartheid. So yes, by all means you can describe the struggles of the present but don't give me this crap about past victimhood and bizarre founding myths.
The Afrikaners did not take part in the great trek to further their economoy and to dominate the natives? Where do you read this shizz?

We did it to escape the oppression of the cape goverment which was under British rule, to escape the hardship of living on the borders of the cape colony where we were first to be attacked by Xhosa warriors who attacked these "grensboere" (borderfarmers) for actions done by goverment, and goverment failing to protect us against them,

That is the reason we moved. The reason we found the Boer republics (Zuid afrikaanse Republic and the Free State) to be free,
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Legendofpie
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Rach
Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
Quote:
 
Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*

If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock.
And I am not calling the article hatespeach however I was reffering to the title.

As clearly stated in my response!
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Legendofpie
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Rach
Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
Quote:
 
Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*

If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock.
And I am not calling the article hatespeach however I was reffering to the title.

As clearly stated in my response!
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Rach
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Legendofpie
Oct 8 2014, 10:51 AM
Rach
Oct 8 2014, 10:12 AM
Quote:
 
Personaly I consider the title of this article to be hatespeach*

If using texts from the third largest library collection amongst North American Universities about South Africa as well as shedding light on South Africas history is hate speech... then I am in shock.

Quote:
 
the Afrikaners never enslaved anybody! We never made it our mission to be cruel to the natives. we wanted to live in peace thats the reason we had the Great Trek into the interior. Thats the moment that defines our identity the moment we stopped being Dutch and started being Boers (later we became Afrikaners) was their some Afrikaners who were extremely cruel towards black people or in other words the natives.? Yes, were all of their deaths out of hate for them ?

While the Afrikaners may not have made it their mission to be cruel to the natives, they were horrendously cruel. This was a continuation of the initial colonialism. If you agree that apartheid was wrong, then you must know that the Afrikaners in their long history of South Africa prior to the end of Apartheid were wrong. Any good they may have done prior to the end of Apartheid is surpassed by the evils committed against the natives. Furthermore, the Great Trek was not done for freedom. It was done for economic reasons and to further their domination over natives.

Quote:
 
What I was trying to address was the struggles of the present and not the struggles of the past. I agree strongly apartheid was wrong, that slavery and cruelty was wrong, but what is also wrong is portraying the Afrikaners as a nation of evil.

You are more than welcome to address the struggles of the present but you can't glorify the past and events such as the great trek which resulted in the creation of brutal regimes. We also don't live in an age where "History is written by the victors", there are so many Universities out there and a lot of freedom in Western society in particular to write history. Furthermore, these books were written prior to the end of apartheid. So yes, by all means you can describe the struggles of the present but don't give me this crap about past victimhood and bizarre founding myths.
The Afrikaners did not take part in the great trek to further their economoy and to dominate the natives? Where do you read this shizz?

We did it to escape the oppression of the cape goverment which was under British rule, to escape the hardship of living on the borders of the cape colony where we were first to be attacked by Xhosa warriors who attacked these "grensboere" (borderfarmers) for actions done by goverment, and goverment failing to protect us against them,

That is the reason we moved. The reason we found the Boer republics (Zuid afrikaanse Republic and the Free State) to be free,
I read this "Shizz" in academic books. There was no hardship under the British, as evidenced by the fact that when South Africa was given self governance two of the first three leaders were Afrikaners! The British worked hand in hand with the Afrikaners. The two afrikaner republics were based on the oppression of blacks and even went so far to abduct black children to work for them.

I do not hold the belief that Afrikaners are evil but you can't glorify any pre-end of apartheid history on the part of the Dutch. That history is something all Afrikaners should be ashamed of as the dark parts of history for other nations are held in shame. Whether it is the Nazi regime in Germany, the way Canadians treated aboriginals or the way Americans engaged in slavery. These are parts of history that are repulsive.

You believe in whitewashing. Those Dutch republics were some of the worst regimes ever seen in the world.
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Legendofpie
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Rach
Oct 8 2014, 02:06 PM


You believe in whitewashing. Those Dutch republics were some of the worst regimes ever seen in the world.
How can you say that where is your proof of this acusation??

There has never been a dutch republic in south africa. Thats like calling the North and the south (union and confederasy )the British republics which is entirely false,

Afrikaners are decendant primeraly from dutch, but also french german And somewhat from Italian Irish scotish and British.

They never were dutch republics, they were Boer republics.

Dont label something of thst which it is not, you would never call a bottel of appel juice, tamato sauce, and then describing the taste of apple juice based on your experience from tasting tamato sauce.

This is the first time I have even ever heard of those republics "being some of the worst regimes on the planet" which is false.

There was never Apartheid in these states/republics. We never kidnapped little black children to work for us (slavery = against the law of these republics there has never been slavery laws in these republics)

Edit:
What the dutch republic was and the only mention of dutch republic(s) I could find thanks to wikipedia :

The Dutch Republic—officially known as the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden), Republic of the United Netherlands, or Republic of the Seven United Provinces (Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Provinciën)—was a republic in Europe existing from 1581, when part of the Netherlands separated from Spanish rule, until 1795. It preceded the Batavian Republic, the Kingdom of Holland, the United Kingdom of the Netherlands and ultimately the modern Kingdom of the Netherlands. Alternative names include the United Provinces (Verenigde Provinciën), Federated Dutch Provinces (Foederatae Belgii Provinciae), and Dutch Federation (Belgica Foederata)
Edited by Legendofpie, Oct 9 2014, 01:08 AM.
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