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Political Parties Threaten Status Quo; Real once More
Topic Started: Aug 7 2014, 02:22 AM (553 Views)
Anumia
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Anumia Novo Spiritus

Someone start the Dick Party. :P




My only issue with the OP is that you nearly left out mentioning the NCP, despite talking about a period from late 2009; given that the NCP was at its zenith in late 2009/early 2010, this seems an odd omission. :P




I'm not certain how influential the parties are yet, but it's early days. We have already seen at least one side use the numbers to inflate the apparent value of their personal opinions (often simultaneously claiming that officially presented opinions aren't actually indicative of party sentiments, which is bizarre to begin with and a woeful, hilarious cop-out to end with), and I have already heard about how newcomers are exposed to what I can only assume with context is vitriol and nastiness directed at non-party members. Sure, it's "just [that person's] opinion", but "hey here's a PM saying join our tight circle of happytreefriends now let's talk shit about people not in the party" is not something I'd like to see again, given the NCP's past in that area...

In the long-term, if they keep focus (being the important caveat), political parties are going to gain influence, especially when newcomers recruited before they're even properly off the boats are involved. Sure, they are free-thinkers and not idiots (despite Drecq's protests :P ), but they're also being welcomed with warm arms into friendship and then can be told nasty things about other people. It is not unreasonable to expect that this will be believed or at least influence these newcomers' opinions.

Both parties should probably stop playing innocent too: the DAF was, in my opinion of course but I think it's fairly obvious to anyone outside the party system, founded to push an agenda that included getting at the EAAC (government organisation, not the party :P ), and then shifted to be anti-Kraken/anti-status quo/pro-anyone-who-wasn't-status quo (hence the rather interesting push to support Ogastein even though his VP choice was I think most people will agree a pretty stalwart member of the Old Guard and indeed someone with whom the Party Chair had fought with many times, yet all that was immediately forgiven since they were running against Kraken). The LBPP meanwhile was founded initially to be a silly social thing, harmless at inception with maybe a hint of thumbing their nose at the ERC, but has since shifted gears to target the DAF.

In short, as with back then, we see a boon of newcomers coming in and people racing to grasp as much influence as possible through the party mechanism and, shockingly, the first time there was any matter of solid contention (the elections starting it off), it swiftly devolved into nastiness, from both sides - more from one than another, although I think the balance is evening up on that now. This isn't about pure social fun or newcomer outreach; whenever the core agendae come up, the facade swiftly drops and people get unreasonable.
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Rach
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The reason I didn't mention the NCP much is because I don't know that much about it, or at least enough to speak with authority on the subject. Also, I didn't felt a bit uncomfortable bringing up the NCP too much because of the taint it had on politics and I felt that comparing the current political state to then would be a bit unfair. I did bring it up in the end because I felt it had to be mentioned in the terms of how things could be different and how communities grow and evolve.
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My point is, saying that political parties didn't have much clout in late 2009/early 2010 is silly since the NCP did :P
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Rach
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I don't remember them having a lot of sway at that time. But I was a lost little newbie.

EDIT: Hold on, I joined as a cit in August 2010 not 2009. That explains everything :P
Edited by Rach, Aug 7 2014, 03:34 PM.
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Rach
Aug 7 2014, 03:34 PM
I don't remember them having a lot of sway at that time. But I was a lost little newbie.

EDIT: Hold on, I joined as a cit in August 2010 not 2009. That explains everything :P
Theeeeere you go. :P
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Sopo
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Indeed, the reason I am so sensitive to a party's influence on newcomers is because I was brought up in the NCP, and it took awhile to undo that damage. :P
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As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different.
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Rach
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Ogastein
Aug 7 2014, 03:38 PM
As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different.
Hold on. Falc is a really cool guy. Don't compare him to Zenny flail.gif
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Ogastein
Aug 7 2014, 03:38 PM
As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different.
As I said in EuroChat, there are key differences. There are also striking similarities I'd prefer everyone stayed away from. Secondly, whether or not Zenny is like Falconias is irrelevant to whether or not this practice should be considered acceptable.
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Ogastein
Aug 7 2014, 03:38 PM
As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different.
Yes, obviously, I'm not accusing Zenny of being Falconias, but I do think there's a certain danger to being exposed primarily to one viewpoint.
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Apollo
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Aug 7 2014, 03:24 PM
Sure, it's "just [that person's] opinion", but "hey here's a PM saying join our tight circle of happytreefriends now let's talk shit about people not in the party" is not something I'd like to see again, given the NCP's past in that area...
See, this is a main reason behind the amendment I proposed. If someone were to see a Party subforum and want to join it, or get asked to join it (which is completely fine), join the party and then realize "oh shit, this is a bit partisan and people are talking shit about people not in the party, I don't like that I should leave." Then, "oh shit, I left the party now I'm a new member and some people already dislike me." As could happen with any party now or in the future.

I just think it's more prudent to let people wait 5 days to understand a political climate before throwing themselves into it.
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Ogastein
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Sopo
 
Yes, obviously, I'm not accusing Zenny of being Falconias, but I do think there's a certain danger to being exposed primarily to one viewpoint.

It's a lot of different viewpoints in the DAF, not just one. Sometimes there's so many viewpoints that it makes my head spin but eh? There's nothing wrong with dissent, it can only serve to strengthen an idea.

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I just think it's more prudent to let people wait 5 days to understand a political climate before throwing themselves into it.

That's so fundamentally unconstitutional...
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Harry McClain
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Zenny is awesome...This message is made by me...a member of DAF, who recieved the same recruiting message yesterday..
As far as I am concerned, since I know about psycolodgy etc...I do believe that the opposite party is frustrated that this was an original idea brought and made by us.
This scandal as you call it, is nothing else, than just another problematic drama, that will influence the hole Europeia and it's balancies...with bullshit! Yes, I said it!
For Europeia's sake, stop it! I mean ok, a recruiting message, and just one complaint can't influence our politics here. If that member was so much offended, ask him/her to block its inboxes for DAF.

After all Europeia is a RE-PU-BLIC....and as far as I am familiar, we have Democracy here...It's democratical movement, and in the name of Democracy, each party has the right to demonstrate itself and its own beliefs in the way the can....The same stands for recruiting as well...If you think it's not ethical or something...It's totally YOUR OPINION. Since recruiting by PM was an unwritten rule...what's up with the drama?

In NationStates we recieve dousens of recruiting messages, did you see anyone complain...? NO!
So why should we wine about one guy or girl that complaint about a political message, when after all its everybody's right, to promote it's group of folks in the way the like...
Since no political harm was done to the opposite parties or the policies of Europeia...stop WINING!
Edited by Harry McClain, Aug 7 2014, 04:04 PM.
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Sopo
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If we were primarily upset that "you thought of it first," we could easily just duplicate it.
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Harry McClain
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Since it is an UNwritten rule, I believe none of you, have the right to protest about that.
The policies stand, no laws had been broken and since we do have a democracy, and for democracy's sake some alternation in tradition are must to be accepted!
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