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Political Parties Threaten Status Quo; Real once More
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Topic Started: Aug 7 2014, 02:22 AM (553 Views)
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Anumia
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Aug 7 2014, 03:24 PM
Post #16
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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Someone start the Dick Party. 
My only issue with the OP is that you nearly left out mentioning the NCP, despite talking about a period from late 2009; given that the NCP was at its zenith in late 2009/early 2010, this seems an odd omission. 
I'm not certain how influential the parties are yet, but it's early days. We have already seen at least one side use the numbers to inflate the apparent value of their personal opinions (often simultaneously claiming that officially presented opinions aren't actually indicative of party sentiments, which is bizarre to begin with and a woeful, hilarious cop-out to end with), and I have already heard about how newcomers are exposed to what I can only assume with context is vitriol and nastiness directed at non-party members. Sure, it's "just [that person's] opinion", but "hey here's a PM saying join our tight circle of happytreefriends now let's talk shit about people not in the party" is not something I'd like to see again, given the NCP's past in that area...
In the long-term, if they keep focus (being the important caveat), political parties are going to gain influence, especially when newcomers recruited before they're even properly off the boats are involved. Sure, they are free-thinkers and not idiots (despite Drecq's protests ), but they're also being welcomed with warm arms into friendship and then can be told nasty things about other people. It is not unreasonable to expect that this will be believed or at least influence these newcomers' opinions.
Both parties should probably stop playing innocent too: the DAF was, in my opinion of course but I think it's fairly obvious to anyone outside the party system, founded to push an agenda that included getting at the EAAC (government organisation, not the party ), and then shifted to be anti-Kraken/anti-status quo/pro-anyone-who-wasn't-status quo (hence the rather interesting push to support Ogastein even though his VP choice was I think most people will agree a pretty stalwart member of the Old Guard and indeed someone with whom the Party Chair had fought with many times, yet all that was immediately forgiven since they were running against Kraken). The LBPP meanwhile was founded initially to be a silly social thing, harmless at inception with maybe a hint of thumbing their nose at the ERC, but has since shifted gears to target the DAF.
In short, as with back then, we see a boon of newcomers coming in and people racing to grasp as much influence as possible through the party mechanism and, shockingly, the first time there was any matter of solid contention (the elections starting it off), it swiftly devolved into nastiness, from both sides - more from one than another, although I think the balance is evening up on that now. This isn't about pure social fun or newcomer outreach; whenever the core agendae come up, the facade swiftly drops and people get unreasonable.
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
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Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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Rach
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Aug 7 2014, 03:30 PM
Post #17
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At Least 5% Sugar
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The reason I didn't mention the NCP much is because I don't know that much about it, or at least enough to speak with authority on the subject. Also, I didn't felt a bit uncomfortable bringing up the NCP too much because of the taint it had on politics and I felt that comparing the current political state to then would be a bit unfair. I did bring it up in the end because I felt it had to be mentioned in the terms of how things could be different and how communities grow and evolve.
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♥ Love and Kindness are never wasted ♥ The 2011 President of the Year Queen of Balder Unofficial Navy Girl
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Anumia
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Aug 7 2014, 03:33 PM
Post #18
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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My point is, saying that political parties didn't have much clout in late 2009/early 2010 is silly since the NCP did
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
-
Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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Rach
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Aug 7 2014, 03:34 PM
Post #19
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At Least 5% Sugar
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I don't remember them having a lot of sway at that time. But I was a lost little newbie.
EDIT: Hold on, I joined as a cit in August 2010 not 2009. That explains everything
Edited by Rach, Aug 7 2014, 03:34 PM.
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♥ Love and Kindness are never wasted ♥ The 2011 President of the Year Queen of Balder Unofficial Navy Girl
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Anumia
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Aug 7 2014, 03:35 PM
Post #20
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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- Rach
- Aug 7 2014, 03:34 PM
I don't remember them having a lot of sway at that time. But I was a lost little newbie. EDIT: Hold on, I joined as a cit in August 2010 not 2009. That explains everything  Theeeeere you go.
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
-
Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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Sopo
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Aug 7 2014, 03:36 PM
Post #21
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Lord High Chancellor Emeritus
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Indeed, the reason I am so sensitive to a party's influence on newcomers is because I was brought up in the NCP, and it took awhile to undo that damage.
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 The Right Honorable Sopo Associate Administrator for Discord - High Priest of Nethel - Lord High Chancellor EmeritusMore Info I once was... Lord High Chancellor and Heir Apparent ~ 26th, 32nd, and 42nd President ~ Speaker of the 27th Senate Vice President ~ Minister of Radio ~ Attorney General ~ Minister of Foreign Affairs ~ Minister of Culture ~ Minister of Welfare ~ Chair of the Citizens' AssemblyClan  Clan Chastain Sopo (Chief), Netz, Marnip, WestGuam, Rand, GraVandius, and AramorAll Hail Nethel, Praise Be Unto Him  I am the High Priest Join the Movement Gaze Upon the Truth Offer Your Prayers
"I am an enigma, I accept that. I understand that the pages of history do not have room for every man, for every dream, or for every brother. I know that deep down, but I wish it were otherwise every so often." ~ The Fourth Book of Nethel
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Ogastein
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Aug 7 2014, 03:38 PM
Post #22
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As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different.
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 [hide=Former Positions]Citizens' Assembly Chairman [1 Term] Mayor [2 Terms] Senator [4.5 Terms] Senate Speaker [1 Term] Deputy Senate Speaker [0.5 Term] Minister of Culture [1 Term] Minister of Citizen Integration [1 Term] Minister of Interior [1 Term] Head of Naturalization [1 Term] Associate Justice [0.5 Term][/hide] [hide=I won somethings at some point]Europeian Achievement Award Winner Councilor of the Year, Mayor of the Year (Dec. 2010) Most Helpful (Sept. 2011)
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Rach
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Aug 7 2014, 03:41 PM
Post #23
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- Ogastein
- Aug 7 2014, 03:38 PM
As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different. Hold on. Falc is a really cool guy. Don't compare him to Zenny
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♥ Love and Kindness are never wasted ♥ The 2011 President of the Year Queen of Balder Unofficial Navy Girl
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Anumia
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Aug 7 2014, 03:41 PM
Post #24
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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- Ogastein
- Aug 7 2014, 03:38 PM
As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different. As I said in EuroChat, there are key differences. There are also striking similarities I'd prefer everyone stayed away from. Secondly, whether or not Zenny is like Falconias is irrelevant to whether or not this practice should be considered acceptable.
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
-
Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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Sopo
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Aug 7 2014, 03:51 PM
Post #25
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Lord High Chancellor Emeritus
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- Ogastein
- Aug 7 2014, 03:38 PM
As someone who has participated in both the NCP and DAF, I can assure you that Zenny is no Falconias, not even close. The environments are radically different. Yes, obviously, I'm not accusing Zenny of being Falconias, but I do think there's a certain danger to being exposed primarily to one viewpoint.
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 The Right Honorable Sopo Associate Administrator for Discord - High Priest of Nethel - Lord High Chancellor EmeritusMore Info I once was... Lord High Chancellor and Heir Apparent ~ 26th, 32nd, and 42nd President ~ Speaker of the 27th Senate Vice President ~ Minister of Radio ~ Attorney General ~ Minister of Foreign Affairs ~ Minister of Culture ~ Minister of Welfare ~ Chair of the Citizens' AssemblyClan  Clan Chastain Sopo (Chief), Netz, Marnip, WestGuam, Rand, GraVandius, and AramorAll Hail Nethel, Praise Be Unto Him  I am the High Priest Join the Movement Gaze Upon the Truth Offer Your Prayers
"I am an enigma, I accept that. I understand that the pages of history do not have room for every man, for every dream, or for every brother. I know that deep down, but I wish it were otherwise every so often." ~ The Fourth Book of Nethel
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Apollo
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Aug 7 2014, 03:52 PM
Post #26
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- Anumia
- Aug 7 2014, 03:24 PM
Sure, it's "just [that person's] opinion", but "hey here's a PM saying join our tight circle of happytreefriends now let's talk shit about people not in the party" is not something I'd like to see again, given the NCP's past in that area... See, this is a main reason behind the amendment I proposed. If someone were to see a Party subforum and want to join it, or get asked to join it (which is completely fine), join the party and then realize "oh shit, this is a bit partisan and people are talking shit about people not in the party, I don't like that I should leave." Then, "oh shit, I left the party now I'm a new member and some people already dislike me." As could happen with any party now or in the future.
I just think it's more prudent to let people wait 5 days to understand a political climate before throwing themselves into it.
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Former Senator (5), Grand Admiral (2), Minister of Culture, Minister of Interior, Chief of Staff
"And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?"
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Ogastein
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Aug 7 2014, 04:00 PM
Post #27
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- Sopo
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Yes, obviously, I'm not accusing Zenny of being Falconias, but I do think there's a certain danger to being exposed primarily to one viewpoint.
It's a lot of different viewpoints in the DAF, not just one. Sometimes there's so many viewpoints that it makes my head spin but eh? There's nothing wrong with dissent, it can only serve to strengthen an idea.
- Apollo
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I just think it's more prudent to let people wait 5 days to understand a political climate before throwing themselves into it.
That's so fundamentally unconstitutional...
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 [hide=Former Positions]Citizens' Assembly Chairman [1 Term] Mayor [2 Terms] Senator [4.5 Terms] Senate Speaker [1 Term] Deputy Senate Speaker [0.5 Term] Minister of Culture [1 Term] Minister of Citizen Integration [1 Term] Minister of Interior [1 Term] Head of Naturalization [1 Term] Associate Justice [0.5 Term][/hide] [hide=I won somethings at some point]Europeian Achievement Award Winner Councilor of the Year, Mayor of the Year (Dec. 2010) Most Helpful (Sept. 2011)
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Harry McClain
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Aug 7 2014, 04:02 PM
Post #28
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Zenny is awesome...This message is made by me...a member of DAF, who recieved the same recruiting message yesterday.. As far as I am concerned, since I know about psycolodgy etc...I do believe that the opposite party is frustrated that this was an original idea brought and made by us. This scandal as you call it, is nothing else, than just another problematic drama, that will influence the hole Europeia and it's balancies...with bullshit! Yes, I said it! For Europeia's sake, stop it! I mean ok, a recruiting message, and just one complaint can't influence our politics here. If that member was so much offended, ask him/her to block its inboxes for DAF.
After all Europeia is a RE-PU-BLIC....and as far as I am familiar, we have Democracy here...It's democratical movement, and in the name of Democracy, each party has the right to demonstrate itself and its own beliefs in the way the can....The same stands for recruiting as well...If you think it's not ethical or something...It's totally YOUR OPINION. Since recruiting by PM was an unwritten rule...what's up with the drama?
In NationStates we recieve dousens of recruiting messages, did you see anyone complain...? NO! So why should we wine about one guy or girl that complaint about a political message, when after all its everybody's right, to promote it's group of folks in the way the like... Since no political harm was done to the opposite parties or the policies of Europeia...stop WINING!
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Sir. Harry McClain King of the Constitutional Monarchy of [nation]LATROVIA[/nation] Member Of:

Brief Information over Harry McClain  Harry McClain was born in Greece (Thessaloniki).
His real name is Harry, using McClain as a Nickname on the forums he is in. He was born in 31/07/96. Since a young age, his virtues of an artist showed up, winning the third prize on a National Drawing Competition. Apart from that, he won prizes on Chess Competitions and Theatrical shows. Currently he is working, as a Radio Producer in a local Radio Station, and as Director of Cinematography on CYLGEN Entertainment (Gaming Company).
Since his youth he loved to help others in any way he could, advising them and listening to them. Some virtues that makes him an excellent Captain on Gjirokastra's Red Cross Emergency team. His love for politics started at the age of 13, while he was watching the news and loved the way the politicians inspired people for a better future. In his late 14, understood that everything was a lie, and hated the way politicians manipulated people for their own interests. Since then he joined the Right Socialist Party (Youth Party - LRI) in Albania, trying to get inside things and fight for something bigger. This proved to be one of his excellent choices as he had plenty of successes at this area. His leading skills, made him The President of PTPI Organisation (People to People Internation), at the student's chapter with his main goal to help people, and aid them with a shelter and food.
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Sopo
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Aug 7 2014, 04:04 PM
Post #29
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Lord High Chancellor Emeritus
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If we were primarily upset that "you thought of it first," we could easily just duplicate it.
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 The Right Honorable Sopo Associate Administrator for Discord - High Priest of Nethel - Lord High Chancellor EmeritusMore Info I once was... Lord High Chancellor and Heir Apparent ~ 26th, 32nd, and 42nd President ~ Speaker of the 27th Senate Vice President ~ Minister of Radio ~ Attorney General ~ Minister of Foreign Affairs ~ Minister of Culture ~ Minister of Welfare ~ Chair of the Citizens' AssemblyClan  Clan Chastain Sopo (Chief), Netz, Marnip, WestGuam, Rand, GraVandius, and AramorAll Hail Nethel, Praise Be Unto Him  I am the High Priest Join the Movement Gaze Upon the Truth Offer Your Prayers
"I am an enigma, I accept that. I understand that the pages of history do not have room for every man, for every dream, or for every brother. I know that deep down, but I wish it were otherwise every so often." ~ The Fourth Book of Nethel
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Harry McClain
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Aug 7 2014, 04:08 PM
Post #30
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Since it is an UNwritten rule, I believe none of you, have the right to protest about that. The policies stand, no laws had been broken and since we do have a democracy, and for democracy's sake some alternation in tradition are must to be accepted!
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Sir. Harry McClain King of the Constitutional Monarchy of [nation]LATROVIA[/nation] Member Of:

Brief Information over Harry McClain  Harry McClain was born in Greece (Thessaloniki).
His real name is Harry, using McClain as a Nickname on the forums he is in. He was born in 31/07/96. Since a young age, his virtues of an artist showed up, winning the third prize on a National Drawing Competition. Apart from that, he won prizes on Chess Competitions and Theatrical shows. Currently he is working, as a Radio Producer in a local Radio Station, and as Director of Cinematography on CYLGEN Entertainment (Gaming Company).
Since his youth he loved to help others in any way he could, advising them and listening to them. Some virtues that makes him an excellent Captain on Gjirokastra's Red Cross Emergency team. His love for politics started at the age of 13, while he was watching the news and loved the way the politicians inspired people for a better future. In his late 14, understood that everything was a lie, and hated the way politicians manipulated people for their own interests. Since then he joined the Right Socialist Party (Youth Party - LRI) in Albania, trying to get inside things and fight for something bigger. This proved to be one of his excellent choices as he had plenty of successes at this area. His leading skills, made him The President of PTPI Organisation (People to People Internation), at the student's chapter with his main goal to help people, and aid them with a shelter and food.
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