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Presidential Debate Results and Anaylsis; Rolling Results as they come in
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Topic Started: Jul 28 2014, 11:47 PM (727 Views)
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Common-Sense Politics
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Jul 29 2014, 03:30 AM
Post #16
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Incapable of Bullshit
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I'm going to go ahead and forgo barking too much about how Mouse's commentary was so slanted it shouldn't have been allowed to be published. Maybe we can find more panelists who aren't so rabidly in support of one candidate in the future.
I think 1-10 is way too large a field and is subject to too much interpretation. On a scale of 1-10, everyone's 7 is going to be different. On a scale of 1-5, Most people's 4 is going to be consistent.
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The Venerable Imperator Common-Sense Politics, ER ESE EBS EOB EC ES OR1-4 Father to McEntire
Chancellory Decorations
Presidential Decorations
Resume Former President x4 Former Vice President x3 Former Grand Admiral x14 Former Minister of Foreign Affairs x6 Former Chief of Staff Former Minister of Communications Former Minister of Foreign Cultivation Former Minister without Portfolio Former Attorney General x2 Former Deputy Minister of Welfare Former Senate Speaker x2 Former Senator x11 Former Associate Justice x2
References "CSP is the most influential President, in my opinion. There's something about him. It may be his way with words. It may be his unwavering vision. It may be the gravitas he holds. Whatever it is, the leadership he demonstrates is consistently excellent, bold, and pragmatic" - Writinglegend, longest serving Europeian president
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HEM
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Jul 29 2014, 03:39 AM
Post #17
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour
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- Common-Sense Politics
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I'm going to go ahead and forgo barking too much about how Mouse's commentary was so slanted it shouldn't have been allowed to be published. Maybe we can find more panelists who aren't so rabidly in support of one candidate in the future.
I think 1-10 is way too large a field and is subject to too much interpretation. On a scale of 1-10, everyone's 7 is going to be different. On a scale of 1-5, Most people's 4 is going to be consistent. You're going to have to point out to me how she was consistently outside the mainstream. Most panelists had moments outside the consensus (one way or another) but much of the scoring came in identical, or at least very close.
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Common-Sense Politics
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Jul 29 2014, 03:42 AM
Post #18
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Incapable of Bullshit
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- HEM
- Jul 29 2014, 03:39 AM
- Common-Sense Politics
- Jul 29 2014, 03:30 AM
I'm going to go ahead and forgo barking too much about how Mouse's commentary was so slanted it shouldn't have been allowed to be published. Maybe we can find more panelists who aren't so rabidly in support of one candidate in the future.
I think 1-10 is way too large a field and is subject to too much interpretation. On a scale of 1-10, everyone's 7 is going to be different. On a scale of 1-5, Most people's 4 is going to be consistent.
You're going to have to point out to me how she was consistently outside the mainstream. Most panelists had moments outside the consensus (one way or another) but much of the scoring came in identical, or at least very close. If you think there's a chance I'm rereading this monstrosity, you're out of your mind. That's the impression I got.
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The Venerable Imperator Common-Sense Politics, ER ESE EBS EOB EC ES OR1-4 Father to McEntire
Chancellory Decorations
Presidential Decorations
Resume Former President x4 Former Vice President x3 Former Grand Admiral x14 Former Minister of Foreign Affairs x6 Former Chief of Staff Former Minister of Communications Former Minister of Foreign Cultivation Former Minister without Portfolio Former Attorney General x2 Former Deputy Minister of Welfare Former Senate Speaker x2 Former Senator x11 Former Associate Justice x2
References "CSP is the most influential President, in my opinion. There's something about him. It may be his way with words. It may be his unwavering vision. It may be the gravitas he holds. Whatever it is, the leadership he demonstrates is consistently excellent, bold, and pragmatic" - Writinglegend, longest serving Europeian president
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Apollo
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Jul 29 2014, 03:44 AM
Post #19
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Very interesting read. I wouldn't put too much stock in a few citizen's views and really declare a winner or not. I do agree with the fact that as President Krake has an advantage on internal issues while as a dedicated architect, Ogastein has an advantage on FA. But, I'd also look to Ogastein's strong leadership in the CA as a reason more citizens like Marnip, Imperium, Calvin, etc are getting involved in the political process.
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Former Senator (5), Grand Admiral (2), Minister of Culture, Minister of Interior, Chief of Staff
"And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?"
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McEntire
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Jul 29 2014, 07:20 AM
Post #20
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Strangely, I saw mostly the foreign policy half of the debate, and I thought Kraken won with room to spare. Ogastein really seemed to hammer him on a lot of the issues, yes, but where was his vision? It reminded me of what I used to do when I ran for President. Finding the weaknesses of my opponent and doggedly going after those. That's no good when you actually get down to the brass tacks of governing.
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 McEntire Mormont, son of Common-Sense Politics
Resume Former Speaker of the Senate (3 terms) Former Senator (11 non-consecutive terms) - Deputy Speaker (2 non-consecutive terms) Former Associate Justice of the Europeian Judiciary Former Vice President, Attorney General, and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Interior and Welfare
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Anumia
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Jul 29 2014, 02:18 PM
Post #21
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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Not referring to Ogastein specifically, but I think there are a lot of people who have never been President who genuinely underestimate the amount of extra work it is. It is certainly greater than the sum of the parts. There is no synergy to be had
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
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Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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modernsin
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Jul 29 2014, 02:41 PM
Post #22
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- McEntire
- Jul 29 2014, 07:20 AM
Strangely, I saw mostly the foreign policy half of the debate, and I thought Kraken won with room to spare. Wow. Yeah, no. No way.
The actual FA question didn't produce strong results from either candidate since they just ended up questioning each other's FA experience, which is a weak point for both. Same goes for the Navy questions, really, although I still think OO edges out Kraken a bit there. More importantly, Kraken fumbled hard in the questions on the NS forums and FC, basically allowing OO to beat on him for long periods without making a coherent defense.
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Ogastein really seemed to hammer him on a lot of the issues, yes, but where was his vision? It reminded me of what I used to do when I ran for President. Finding the weaknesses of my opponent and doggedly going after those. That's no good when you actually get down to the brass tacks of governing. When you're campaigning against an incumbent, you have the added bonus of being able to criticize the weaker parts of his last term, which OO took full advantage of here. Likewise, the incumbent has the benefit of a unique, Presidential perspective on the region's issues...which Kraken also took full advantage of, especially in the Interior portion of the debate. Both candidates were at times too eager to attack each other and leave the ideas at the door - OO could be overzealous in his criticisms of the last term, while Kraken was clearly overcompensating for the poor showing at the last debate. Because of that, I didn't get nearly as much out of the debate as I expected, although each candidate's strengths and weaknesses are maybe a little clearer than they were a week ago.
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CV Former Senator (4.5 terms) Former ERN Lieutenant (Honorably Discharged) Former Minister of Immigration Former Chief of Staff Former Minister of Culture Accolades
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Anumia
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Jul 30 2014, 05:13 PM
Post #23
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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The strangest part for me was that Ogastein has a chief domestic focus personally while Kraken leans towards foreign affairs, yet each won their opposite. I agree that more questions on Foreign Cultivation might have netted an overall victory for Ogastein, but I also think had the focus been on pure foreign affairs without FC, Kraken would have won both halves, because he has had to attend to both over this term and this gained a greater balance.
The energy and drive both sides have for FC - especially Ogastein, who in the debate rightly capitalised on praise for his good work there so far - is excellent, and I think we can feel fairly confident that that Ministry will receive a solid boost in attention and therefore hopefully success in the next term, with either candidate in the Goldenblock.
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
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Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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PhDre
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Jul 31 2014, 03:16 AM
Post #24
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Rt. Hon. OG PhDre DMV AF1
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I also think had the focus been on pure foreign affairs without FC, Kraken would have won both halves, because he has had to attend to both over this term and this gained a greater balance.
I think it might be because one has been perceived as a disappointment / failure of his administration while the 'pure foreign affairs' (of which I'd argue GAP is a part, but you mean MoFA itself) has been much more successful especially relative to the MoFC.
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Anumia
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Jul 31 2014, 07:56 AM
Post #25
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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Yes. In essence, it seems Kraken won outright on domestic issues, but while having a stronger showing in general foreign affairs, had a weak spot in FC which Ogastein could hit.
Again what is strange is that these seem the opposite of their personal foci.
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
-
Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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Common-Sense Politics
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Jul 31 2014, 06:40 PM
Post #26
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Incapable of Bullshit
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- Anumia
- Jul 31 2014, 07:56 AM
Again what is strange is that these seem the opposite of their personal foci. Are you under the impression that Krak has an overriding preferential interest in foreign affairs as opposed to domestic issues? I haven't observed that. I think there's an effort to represent the President as some kind of FA hawk to stand against Ogastein who is perceived (in general, fairly) to have a domestic career focus and I think it's pretty disingenuous.
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The Venerable Imperator Common-Sense Politics, ER ESE EBS EOB EC ES OR1-4 Father to McEntire
Chancellory Decorations
Presidential Decorations
Resume Former President x4 Former Vice President x3 Former Grand Admiral x14 Former Minister of Foreign Affairs x6 Former Chief of Staff Former Minister of Communications Former Minister of Foreign Cultivation Former Minister without Portfolio Former Attorney General x2 Former Deputy Minister of Welfare Former Senate Speaker x2 Former Senator x11 Former Associate Justice x2
References "CSP is the most influential President, in my opinion. There's something about him. It may be his way with words. It may be his unwavering vision. It may be the gravitas he holds. Whatever it is, the leadership he demonstrates is consistently excellent, bold, and pragmatic" - Writinglegend, longest serving Europeian president
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Anumia
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Jul 31 2014, 09:52 PM
Post #27
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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Kraken basically grew up in FA stuff as MinComm then MoFA; the domestic stuff he has done has mostly been this term as President but not much before. By comparison, Ogastein has always had that domestic focus, with less emphasis on FA. Neither are FA hawks and both have people to rely upon in that area. I would have expected Ogastein to win on domestic issues and Kraken on foreign ones therefore, but it went the other way.
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
-
Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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Lethen
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Jul 31 2014, 10:03 PM
Post #28
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.
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Maybe it's just me, but ever since we began aggressively asserting ourselves in the Foreign sphere I've (almost) always purposely voted for Presidents with some strong Foreign Affairs experience (and for that same reason, I've shied away from the Presidency because I just don't have that presence in the NS world).
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me, basically (click)
A letter to a friend By the Prophetical Blessing of Nethel, Supreme Chancellor of the Republic of Europeia and the states within, Destined Overseer of His rightful yet forgotten realms of Estalcia and Old Europe and Crystal Falls, Defender of the Faith and New Jersey, and Heir to the concept of Sarcasm
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Anumia
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Jul 31 2014, 10:15 PM
Post #29
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Anumia Novo Spiritus
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I noticed that too, but CSP shores up that side immensely anyway - undisputed winner on Naval affairs of the four, and a stronger general FA focus than either on Kraken's side. Maybe we should have had a VP debate too.
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Signature The One. The Allfather.-- "He stood with his head held high, critics screaming, and did what he truly felt was best for Europeia." - Common-Sense Politics He's the only person in NationStates who can successfully combine outrageous pomposity with a real support for democracy. - Indycar Racing Do I really need to talk about Anumia? The guy can write like Shakespeare, think like Socrates, and I learned on EuroChat yesterday that he can sing too. I bet he's hung like a bull moose. - Common-Sense Politics Anumia, you have a great mind. - Lethen Someone like Anumia only comes around once in a while. - Kabanatuanistan To be perfectly honest, I'm just going to trust Anumia and approve - Falconias I saw your amendment and wondered whether I had died and gone to heaven. It's beautiful. - Swakistek This is why we should all listen to Anumia. Clearly he is a god amongst men. - Fortana | You are not all knowing. You are not all powerful. You are not Anumia. - Griff I have the greatest respect for Anumia - don't let this thread fool you - but I wish he'd stop winning. - Hyanygo Actually, Hy, the things I wanted to say were: Go Anumia! I love Anumia! - Lethen Anumia with whatever power I have I hereby declare you the winner of everything, forever. - Fortana Long live the Emperor! All Hail Anumia, King of Kings! - Peaceful Llamas How about we realize democracy here is flawed and we make Anumia our dictator? - karthikking I agree with you, Anumia, as all Europeians should. - Swakistek To be honest I'm just going to vote whatever way Anumia votes. - Fortana |
Awards I fought in the Osiris Campaign.
  Amusing Quotes - Quote:
-
Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:36 AM): I need you Sai'on'ay the Light Elf (Shower) says (7:37 AM): For? Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:37 AM): an Anumia vs Anumia debate  Olde Delaware: AE, The Devil's Game, SPC, NS says (7:38 AM): Were doing a 4 part debating series with Europeia and Rougiers brought up doing a "Anumia vs Anumia" debate I want you to be our Anumia
- Klatonia,Jul 5 2011
- 04:03 AM
Drop dead, Dre.
- Lethen
- Aug 15 2013, 03:00 AM
You think I fact-check the shit I say? 
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PhDre
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Jul 31 2014, 10:29 PM
Post #30
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Rt. Hon. OG PhDre DMV AF1
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CSP's FA experience also knocks his own Presidential candidate's experience out of the water - and absolutely surpasses the current President's experience as well.
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