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Grand Admiral nominee faces Senate scrutiny; E-News Network - 114th Edition
Topic Started: May 25 2014, 02:46 PM (452 Views)
Mousebumples
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I'll admit that I'm also curious about the concerns that Cormac and Elias have both raised since Cormac would have had the same split alliances, should Drecq have won and Cormac had been nominated for GA.

Other than, as MS says, not answering questions they way you want him to ... what is the difference here? SD at least has an available WA nation that he could use to personally lead ERN missions. Was Cormac prepared to cut ties with Osiris if nominated for GA?

I don't claim to be a military expert, so it's quite possible that I'm missing something here. However, to an ERN outsider, this outrage seems somewhat ... convenient, as two of the likely alternative GA candidates are the ones generating all the noise.
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Elias Greyjoy
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Mousebumples
May 26 2014, 04:30 PM
I don't claim to be a military expert, so it's quite possible that I'm missing something here. However, to an ERN outsider, this outrage seems somewhat ... convenient, as two of the likely alternative GA candidates are the ones generating all the noise.
You've hit the nail on the head - we're just butthurt we didn't get a nod this time around. :rolleyes:

I think I've laid out a fairly easily-understood argument - SD has shown major conflicts of interest on the past when it comes to Europeian allegiance. Cormac, to my knowledge, is just a lot more busy and pan-regional than most of us. Difference being (if we want to continue with the irrelevant hypothetical you have postulated) that everyone knew Cormac had other responsibilities should he have been nominated, but we knew he was active enough to lead and teach, and his other regional affiliation have never caused issues in the past, to my knowledge. SD, however, is quite the opposite. Not only has he been inactive in the Navy for some time, clearly Europeia is a second-tier priority for him. My issue is giving the reins to someone who has been out of the game for some time who already has past problems with activity. I'm not so concerned with there regional affiliations except where they could cause, as Cormac has described, decreased attention to Europeia.
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Yuri R. Somerset
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Cormac made it pretty clear I thought that he would not remove his WA nation from Osiris.

I honestly felt it should have all been voted on en banc, but seeing as how there was enough opposition to drag it out at least confirming the non-controverisal appointees would be prudent so we didn't waste valuable time waiting that could be used to implement Kraken's other agenda items.

I would like to see this brought to a vote, but I understand there are four others who have their own opinions, and unfortunately in a democracy things move slowly. Is it annoying? Sometimes, but it is necessary, and that is what makes Europeia so great. We all have a say in how the government is run. Each branch serves its own function, and each takes that function seriously and handles it in a professional manner. Will SD be confirmed? I feel that he most likely will, but I don't see any real harm in his having to make the senate feel warm and fuzzy before we do so. I personally do have some issues from what has been brought up, but I know how I will vote, and I think everyone else does as well at this point.


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Elias Greyjoy
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Dr. Yuri Razhtigr
May 26 2014, 04:49 PM
I don't see any real harm in his having to make the senate feel warm and fuzzy before we do so. I personally do have some issues from what has been brought up, but I know how I will vote, and I think everyone else does as well at this point.
While a separate issue from the nominee, the delay in the vote is another problem I have.

If the above is the major argument in delaying the vote, then you aren't looking at the consequences of such a delay. Now, we have a Mate (the second-lowest rank of the active fleet) running the Navy, in the stead of an appointed GA nominee, and coordinating our military movements. To my knowledge, Kraken hasn't received any leadership training when it comes to the Navy. I very much doubt this is how the President envisioned rebuilding the Navy - waiting on the Senate to confirm or deny his nominee all because we wanted to make the Senate feel "warm and fuzzy."
Edited by Elias Greyjoy, May 26 2014, 04:54 PM.
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Yuri R. Somerset
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If you have access to the senate thread, which I'm not sure if you do or not. I have been saying we should vote on SD.There is no argument from me for delaying the vote. I was ready to vote with the rest of the appointees. I have made my opinion clear, but I'm not the only member of the senate. If other members feel uncomfortable about the appointment then I can't do a damn thing about it except accept that as part of a body of individuals things won't always go how I would like. It's part of the process and sometimes it works great, and sometimes it takes a while.

I know this isn't what Kraken wanted. He's made that clear to me, but it is what it is. The senate has the right, via constitutional mandate even, to reject or confirm any appointments and that means that sometimes you gotta do a little dog and pony show, they are well within their rights, and pissing and moaning won't change that. Obviously, if you dislike it I would encourage you to run in the senate race and then you can vote how you would like on the matter.

Let me reiterate. I feel we should vote and not delay, but this is just my opinion so their is no confusion on where I stand on this. I agree that holding up the process isn't really helping the ERN. However, I accept that I am not the only person that is involved in this discussion, and the other 4 members of the senate are just as equal in this discussion so I must respect their opinions even if I disagree.
Edited by Yuri R. Somerset, May 26 2014, 05:09 PM.


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Kraketopia
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Elias Greyjoy
May 26 2014, 04:54 PM
If the above is the major argument in delaying the vote, then you aren't looking at the consequences of such a delay. Now, we have a Mate (the second-lowest rank of the active fleet) running the Navy, in the stead of an appointed GA nominee, and coordinating our military movements. To my knowledge, Kraken hasn't received any leadership training when it comes to the Navy. I very much doubt this is how the President envisioned rebuilding the Navy - waiting on the Senate to confirm or deny his nominee all because we wanted to make the Senate feel "warm and fuzzy."
I'll be so happy when I can just tell a GA what to do :emb:
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Elias Greyjoy
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Kraketopia
May 26 2014, 05:26 PM
Elias Greyjoy
May 26 2014, 04:54 PM
If the above is the major argument in delaying the vote, then you aren't looking at the consequences of such a delay. Now, we have a Mate (the second-lowest rank of the active fleet) running the Navy, in the stead of an appointed GA nominee, and coordinating our military movements. To my knowledge, Kraken hasn't received any leadership training when it comes to the Navy. I very much doubt this is how the President envisioned rebuilding the Navy - waiting on the Senate to confirm or deny his nominee all because we wanted to make the Senate feel "warm and fuzzy."
I'll be so happy when I can just tell a GA what to do :emb:
Not sure I understand your point, if you have one. Are you confident in your ability to lead the Navy in the meantime, even without knowing how to scout, trigger, or jump? Because that's the crux of my argument as to why this delay is a bad thing.

EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong in assuming you haven't received training in any of the above.
Edited by Elias Greyjoy, May 26 2014, 05:40 PM.
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Skizzy Grey
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modernsin
May 26 2014, 04:00 PM
I agree with the point that just because Kraken received a lot of support in his Presidential run, the same level of support doesn't necessarily extend to his Cabinet picks, of which SD was probably the most controversial throughout the election and, obviously, after it.

However, I'm gonna call bullshit on at least 50% of Cormac's rationale for rejecting SD:
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The fact is that Seven Deaths has been combative and uncooperative under Senate scrutiny. Even if citizens were aware of the President's choices, they were also aware those choices would face Senate scrutiny and Seven Deaths has not passed the test.
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I hope my fellow Senators will agree, and moreover I urge President Kraketopia to withdraw and replace his nomination for Grand Admiral in light of his nominee's lack of cooperation toward the Senate, which he could not have anticipated and for which he shouldn't be faulted.
What this says to me is that you're upset that SD didn't answer your questions the way you wanted him to. Your questions were fair, but so were his answers. He wasn't being uncooperative, he was being striaghtforward about his degree of commitment to the UIAF.

At no point did SD refuse to answer any of your questions or speak in a disrespectful manner. So hinging your vote of a Cabinet nominee on the fact that they gave consistently clear and honest answers is laughable. Not upsetting or offensive or controversial. Laughable. Your other objections are more reasonable, but you're mad that he didn't spoon-feed you the 'rah-rah Europeia's #1!' answers you wanted to hear? Get over yourself, man.

And I'm still not sure why you're tabling the vote on SD. Seems like most everyone's mind is made up, and CSP (the likely victor in the standby) has given his intended vote as well ("I won't vote against" is close enough, at least :P ). Dragging this out isn't doing anyone any favors.
With all due respect, you weren't here when SD blew off his duties as President in favor of hanging out in Albion, a UIAF-affiliated region. For those of us who were here for that, SD's responses to the Senate about his UIAF commitments raise concerns that history is poised to repeat itself.

It's nothing like the Cormac situation -- having a GA without a WA nation available is sub-optimal, but he wasn't proposing to hold a leadership post in another region's military concurrently.
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Kraketopia
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My point was that I'll be happy when I don't have to worry about coordinating the Navy, but can just give my GA a general direction.

I've received no training on leadership or scouting. Fortunately my current role as President of the Navy has been in organizing operations, and having SD present to do the actual military stuff(as is his right as an officer of the ERN).
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Rach
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Kraketopia
May 26 2014, 05:43 PM
My point was that I'll be happy when I don't have to worry about coordinating the Navy, but can just give my GA a general direction.

I've received no training on leadership or scouting. Fortunately my current role as President of the Navy has been in organizing operations, and having SD present to do the actual military stuff(as is his right as an officer of the ERN).
You're not President of the Navy. You are the Command-in-Chief of the Navy according to Constitution V. Which is a way more awesome name :wub:
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Elias Greyjoy
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Kraketopia
May 26 2014, 05:43 PM
My point was that I'll be happy when I don't have to worry about coordinating the Navy, but can just give my GA a general direction.

I've received no training on leadership or scouting. Fortunately my current role as President of the Navy has been in organizing operations, and having SD present to do the actual military stuff(as is his right as an officer of the ERN).
Fair enough. I'd imagine that would be your reaction, which is why I'm sort of surprised you seem rather hunky-dory with the delay in the vote.
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Kraketopia
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Elias Greyjoy
May 26 2014, 05:48 PM
Kraketopia
May 26 2014, 05:43 PM
My point was that I'll be happy when I don't have to worry about coordinating the Navy, but can just give my GA a general direction.

I've received no training on leadership or scouting. Fortunately my current role as President of the Navy has been in organizing operations, and having SD present to do the actual military stuff(as is his right as an officer of the ERN).
Fair enough. I'd imagine that would be your reaction, which is why I'm sort of surprised you seem rather hunky-dory with the delay in the vote.
It's not my place to tell the Senate how to conduct its business. I'm not going to criticize it in public, or write an op-ed piece on the matter. I've made my opinions known, I've talked to some of the Senators about it in private, and that's the extent of what I believe my involvement should be.
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Elias Greyjoy
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GASP! BREAKING NEWS: Elias writes an Op-Ed piece to express his opinions - Europeians shocked that this keeps happening.

I'm sure that honeymoon phase will wear off eventually.
My point being, I don't see any Presidential "rage" per se that the Senate is holding up your plans to fix the Navy, which I'm surprised at.
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Kraketopia
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It wasn't a criticism of your op-ed piece :P

It was me stating that I don't think the President should do something like that, especially when dealing with another branch of the government.
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Elias Greyjoy
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Which is fine - again, a respectable opinion. But if anything, I'd say your noncommittal to saying anything that might step on the toes of the Senate is coming off, to me at least, as complacency with the delay. I would think the mindset would be to get your guys in place and hit the ground running.
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