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So what the heck is Europeia anyways?

Can I join?

So, I came here representing another region? I do not want to become a citizen. Where should I go?

What offices are there for people to be elected into?

What is there for me to do in Europeia?

That answers most of my immediate questions. What if I have any more?


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A Taste of Skizz #15; TSP, or Part One of My Memoirs
Topic Started: Oct 10 2011, 07:17 PM (1,836 Views)
North East Somerset
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Wheels within Wheels

It was swept under the rug, it wasn't even discussed in the EAC itself at all before I rejoined, and it was only ever mentioned in a few passing comments upon my return to the EAC.

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The brief period when NES wasn't part of the EAC


And I was excluded for 2 weeks. When Skizzy reopened the EAC on May 26th he stated:

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I also left out NES, but will invite him back when the whole TSP thing is over.


I wasn't reinvited back in till June 7th and then I said:

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I'm back.

No idea why I was excluded due to TSP, surely I would have been an extremely useful asset for Strategy on that matter - experienced with dealing with Feeder Affairs from the position of a UCR, and well detached and unbiased.

Incidentally, the timing for my re-introduction now is far worse! But nevermind, get back to work, and lets make sure we make the right decisions for Europeia in the future.


By saying far worse, I meant I had a direct conflict of interest due to the then relevant TKR-TNI issue. Skizzy replied:

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Meh, I'm not too worried about the TNI/TKR thing. You guys will do what you guys will do. smile.gif

I think we were on the opposite side of the TSP thing from TNI and LKE, and I didn't want to put you in an awkward spot. As it turned out, there wasn't much discussion of it here, but when I changed the password after Earth/Ollie/Griff left, I thought we'd be discussing TSP here much more than we actually did.


I quoted his first paragraph and replied:

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Skizzy, I think TNI/LKE went through exactly the same motions as Europeia regarding TSP. As you'd expect for three regions whom are closely aligned, on a matter which they had little experience on and was distant to them.

So, I think you were worrying about a conflict of interest, which did not exist. The only conflicts of interest going on were between the then President and the then Supreme Chancellor. The less said about that, the better.


So there you have it, Henry. Then and there I told him then and there directly that TNI/LKE were on the same side, and he still didn't appear to take it in. His reply was:

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laugh.gif

Well played.


And that's the last that was said on the matter.
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Skizzy Grey
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Here's the part I don't get:

Earth was President here when the TSP affair began to unfold. Griff was her GA. If Earth asked Griff to take one side or the other in this matter, he would've done that. It wouldn't have raised eyebrows for us to side with Unknown, and against the FRA (though their participation might have been unforeseen). So if Earth wanted to help her friends in TRR, she could have told Griff to order the Navy to support the invasion.

Wouldn't that be easier, and more effective, then starting a fight with HEM and resigning from the region?

Remember, HEM briefly left the region too; the scene was quite ugly, and it involved people who didn't leave, and who had nothing to do with the TSP thing (e.g., Hyanygo). In sum, it didn't look at all like the sort of fight one might stage as a ruse to conceal a pre-planned exit.

And from NES's post, it appears I need to take remedial reading comprehension classes. :lol:

In hindsight, I think we should have stayed neutral. Making a half-assed attempt to intervene in a squabble that didn't concern us, without any allies on our side, was a bad move.

Of course, it's easy to say that now that HEM's back in the fold. If I had pulled out of TSP and HEM hadn't come back, people would be jumping to make a causal connection between those two things and hang me for it.
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Skizzy Grey
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North East Somerset
Oct 10 2011, 04:48 PM
It was swept under the rug, it wasn't even discussed in the EAC itself at all before I rejoined, and it was only ever mentioned in a few passing comments upon my return to the EAC.


I think you're confusing "sweeping under the rug" with "not giving a s--t."

Maybe I shouldn't have been, but I was firmly in the latter camp.
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Sopo
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It's easy to understand how the situation could have been mishandled in the midst of a much larger crisis, that of the region losing a President, Delegate, and GA all at once.
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North East Somerset
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So if Earth wanted to help her friends in TRR, she could have told Griff to order the Navy to support the invasion.


HEM was Foreign Minister in TSP. There is no way that the ERN could have been deployed against the TSP government in those circumstances. That is precisly why Oliver as I quoted earlier "advised Europeia to support Southern Bellz while I was quietly siphoning people who owed me favours into supporting Devonitians."

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And from NES's post, it appears I need to take remedial reading comprehension classes. laugh.gif


lol, indeed.
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HEM
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I find it interesting that this event has suddenly gained so much attention.

I honestly had very little information on the event at the time...I certainly assumed we would be helping the native government, but doing so was hardly on my top priority list. Honestly, what was said by Oliver and others during the event was more bothersome to me than the event itself.
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Skizzy Grey
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North East Somerset
Oct 10 2011, 05:06 PM
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So if Earth wanted to help her friends in TRR, she could have told Griff to order the Navy to support the invasion.


HEM was Foreign Minister in TSP. There is no way that the ERN could have been deployed against the TSP government in those circumstances. That is precisly why Oliver as I quoted earlier "advised Europeia to support Southern Bellz while I was quietly siphoning people who owed me favours into supporting Devonitians."


Or, Ollie needed to justify himself to his new friends in TRR. Or, this was a post on the NS forum and was purely spin, with any resemblance to the truth being coincidental. Or maybe Ollie went rogue. Or maybe, as you contend, it was an elaborate conspiracy. Neither of us knows, and we're both inclined to fill the gaps in our knowledge with assumptions that support our pre-existing worldview.

We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.
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Anumia
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Even with your kinder suggestions though, none of them are particularly honourable, and even regardless of intent it was at the least causing a two-faced foreign affairs response here.
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Avakael
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Skizzy Grey
Oct 11 2011, 08:10 AM
Avakael
Oct 10 2011, 03:46 PM
If Unknown was involved, I missed it. Sources?


I don't think this was secret, Dev. I'll bet Savaer or Elindra would confirm if asked.

This is not a source, and I can't find any record of actions in TSP within Unknown.
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Anumia
Oct 10 2011, 07:09 PM
Even with your kinder suggestions though, none of them are particularly honourable, and even regardless of intent it was at the least causing a two-faced foreign affairs response here.

But that's a far cry from what's been said (or more often, implied) about Ollie by several people in recent days. He went against us on a reinforcement operation -- don't the 'fendas here do that routinely? (Yeah, it's a little different, but if we treat the one as normal, surely the latter is not gravely dishonorable.)

If Ollie was running for office, this history would be fair game, but suggesting it renders him a dishonorable man whose opinions are unworthy of respect strikes me as paranoid and/or vengeful.
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Henry


People need to work on their communication skills a little bit, eh? :lol:
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Anumia
Oct 10 2011, 07:09 PM
Even with your kinder suggestions though, none of them are particularly honourable, and even regardless of intent it was at the least causing a two-faced foreign affairs response here.


This.

And they are kinder suggestions indeed. I wonder how "kind" one must be to make apologies for someone to the extent of actually suggesting something they said themselves might not be true, because it is so bad...

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I think you're confusing "sweeping under the rug" with "not giving a s--t."


If you don't give a s--t about the ability of the Europeian Government to react decisively and united in the face of global NS events, then so be it. But I think that is a fairly fundamental principle in any respectable sovereign state. And I think there should have been an Inquiry into just how such a disasterous mess was caused by this incident. By disasterous, I mean key machinations of the region leaving in ignominy amongst chaotic actions. And I think that Inquiry would have found Earth and Oliver guilty of acting against Europeian interests and causing significant damage to the region's well-being. And the fact they have just gone off yet again and are acting in a way which whilst fortunately is apparently of very limited effect, is nonetheless decidely not in Europeia's interests, just compounds the issue.

There comes a time, as Sopo says, when you should no longer give the "benefit of the doubt". When you have to say, look, these people's actions are no longer excusable. You cannot take away their many contributions in the past, and indeed they should be remembered. But, you have to accept reality, and you have to realise that whatever love they once had for Euro is now obviously clouded by bitterness and negativity. Why? Perhaps we will never know. Perhaps they had unrealistic expectations. Perhaps something happenned that we don't know about. Perhaps they can't even explain it properly. Indeed I have yet to see a coherent argument put forwards as to what exactly this mystical "problem" Europeia has, why certain people are "dissatisfied", actually is. But it matters not, what matters is that we do not bury our heads in the sand, but instead look to the future of the region, and learn from our mistakes.

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He went against us on a reinforcement operation -- don't the 'fendas here do that routinely? (Yeah, it's a little different, but if we treat the one as normal, surely the latter is not gravely dishonorable.)


Are these Defenders Vice-Admiral in the Navy at the time? Of course not. It is different, it is completely incomparable. It is -blatently- dishonourable. End of story, Skizzy, time to stop the excuses.
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Henry


NES, you keep pushing for the excommunication of Oliver and Earth and I will make sure you wind up more than just mentally bruised this time. I will make you look like the biggest incompetent pile of shit in the world.
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Anumia
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Henry
Oct 12 2011, 02:51 AM
NES, you keep pushing for the excommunication of Oliver and Earth and I will make sure you wind up more than just mentally bruised this time. I will make you look like the biggest incompetent pile of shit in the world.

"Peace and forgiveness for all, except those actually serving in Europeia"?
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Henry


Lol, do you really want me to keep pointing out how all humans are hypocrites? Especially you, Anumia.

Oliver and Earth are my friends and regardless of what they've done, they will continue to be so. I'm not that fond of NES, but if he actually had something worthwhile to say and a solution that didn't engineer more problems for us; I'd be more than willing to listen to it.

As it stands, though; My loyalty to my friends is absolute above all else unless I know that what they're doing is completely wrong and will hurt people. At that point, I do what I think is right, but they remain my friends. THAT is loyalty. That's more than being a friend that people want; it's being the friend that people need.

I probably know a little bit more about the TSP incident than has been mentioned here, but there has been a lot mentioned I didn't know about. None of it screams the necessity of getting rid of Oliver and Earth or anyone else.

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But, you have to accept reality, and you have to realise that whatever love they once had for Euro is now obviously clouded by bitterness and negativity. Why? Perhaps we will never know. Perhaps they had unrealistic expectations. Perhaps something happenned that we don't know about. Perhaps they can't even explain it properly. Indeed I have yet to see a coherent argument put forwards as to what exactly this mystical "problem" Europeia has, why certain people are "dissatisfied", actually is. But it matters not, what matters is that we do not bury our heads in the sand, but instead look to the future of the region, and learn from our mistakes.


Europeia never really gets better and its peoples attitudes that make it worse. When two or three people finally get in a mood where they can make a lot of difference in Europeia for the better, there's three times the amount of people being negative and hateful about it and the more fiercely you defend your stance, the more fiercely you get attacked. I've been made to think of myself as delusional and insane since I've been here. I've had my head screwed with and have been chewed up and spit out by some of the best argument-manipulators I have ever run across.

So, when you present a choice to me like this, where I have to choose loyalty between my friends and Europeia; don't expect an answer favorable to what you want to hear. I will choose my friends.
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