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Welcome to Europeia!
So what the heck is Europeia anyways?

Can I join?

So, I came here representing another region? I do not want to become a citizen. Where should I go?

What offices are there for people to be elected into?

What is there for me to do in Europeia?

That answers most of my immediate questions. What if I have any more?


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Desperate Bear seeks citizenship; Let's trade an application for a masking!
Topic Started: May 15 2018, 11:52 AM (974 Views)
Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

No offense, Grizzli, but I truly do not believe you. Almost every single time people invent these sets of extenuating circumstances they turn out to be a total and complete fabrication. There's a lot of things that don't pass the smell test about this -- and no amount of febreze can cover that up. To me, it's pretty excruciatingly clear that you've done what has happened previously by prefacing any irregularities that otherwise would be a red flag (ie. matching IP addresses, etc.) by saying that you're in the same school/you gave him your laptop/etc. I would wager, rather, that you felt bad after having been elected and going AWOL that you came back as someone else trying to "start over" -- and when the same thing happened with your Airbus account you had no option other than to return on your initial one. Considering this has happened before, uh, a lot recently it's hard to believe this is remotely genuine.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
May 16 2018, 07:13 PM
No offense, Grizzli, but I truly do not believe you. Almost every single time people invent these sets of extenuating circumstances they turn out to be a total and complete fabrication. There's a lot of things that don't pass the smell test about this -- and no amount of febreze can cover that up. To me, it's pretty excruciatingly clear that you've done what has happened previously by prefacing any irregularities that otherwise would be a red flag (ie. matching IP addresses, etc.) by saying that you're in the same school/you gave him your laptop/etc. I would wager, rather, that you felt bad after having been elected and going AWOL that you came back as someone else trying to "start over" -- and when the same thing happened with your Airbus account you had no option other than to return on your initial one. Considering this has happened before, uh, a lot recently it's hard to believe this is remotely genuine.
I have to agree with Aex on this one. your comments in this thread do indicate that something is afoul. Your comments regarding IPs. when no one asked, seems out of place and I believe something worth looking into.
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Grizzli
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Credits to Ervald for finding me this one

Ah, I am too bad of a liar to do politics. Europeia might not truly be a region for me :euro:

You are partly right, Aex. They were right to have you as a Justice.

I am Airbus. Now let’s get to the part of why I did all of this masquerade anyway. Though it might be hard to believe given that I have already lied, I am not a sexual offender, did not create any of this to scam anyone, or even have two simultaneous citizenship accounts (since that did not happen). Not even for any kind of political honour because, to be fair, we all know starting at the bottom of the political ladder and climbing is not the easiest thing that can happen to a Europeian, though I can’t really complain, I’ve been excessively aided both times I tried.

I went AWOL for the reasons explained in my first post, though I never lost view completely of this community. I was missing those nights of Discord and the fervour of elections where I refreshed that poll page every ten minutes (I think many of us are prey to this terrible disease of impatience). More than all I was missing spending time for causes of people I never met but truly cared about, who had created and were entertaining the place that offered that one thing life wouldn’t give me… the right to have opinions heard equally, because indeed when one is minor one rarely receives any consideration for ideas and work (terrible or not). I was missing staying up half an hour later to write a final night commentary in the CA with the knowledge that, waking up the next morning I could read the response. I was missing Europeia.

I was seeing home from afar but was too afraid of returning, because I had the feeling I would not be welcome after leaving. So yes, indeed, after a couple of months of lustful abstinence where I saw the friends I had reach great heights, fall from great heights and continue serving, I figured I had to return, try it anew, climb the first step of the ladder – the most exciting one really- again. I was not planning to become anything too important, just that guy helping around and hanging out.
Of course, that is not what happened because what happens as planned in Europeia? By wanting to play the newcomer I became a newcomer again. Amazed by everything, attracted by everything (especially good old CA that looked like a new present under a Christmas tree). And so of course I behaved like any newcomer when seeing this…I ran for office. Not truly expecting to win, mind you, but campaigns were also part of what made this region alive to me.
Then I won my – well- second term as CA Chair (first with Airbus). And yes, Lethen, I genuinely forgot about the archiving pinned threads bug, so I didn’t get you to refish those by pure pleasure of seeing you get mad.
When I went AWOL with Grizzli, I had the impression I had failed in my mission of serving the region. There was going to be none of that with Chair Airbus, I resolved. So I wrote up a Legislative Training Centre which holds the name of Calvin Coolidge today, and of course a massive Mockingbird to compensate for the fact Chair Grizzli never wrote a Mockingbird. This was my golden age, and I was receiving DM’s of people asking me why I wasn’t running for Senate. I knew that would be a very difficult question to answer, because that would be breaking my starting oath even more, whilst being a chance to repair my mistakes as Senator Grizzli. But I was far from this and simply tasting the golden age…

This was suppose to continue on my second term as CA Chair, but we are now reaching the last act of my little visit. What froze me was when the Admins banned XIV/Ninja Kittens. For the first time, Admins were not banning liars because they had caused harm, but indeed because they were liars. This is when I realised that what I was doing as a simple return was in fact deeply wrong. I wasn’t causing or willing to cause any harm at all, but I realised that I did not want to distress those I saw around me everyday. Hence I should stop. I continued for a little time, but every day I was now debating with myself. The ski story was true, and I lodged an LOA…by the end of the ski trip I realised I would be at peace if I wouldn’t come back. This way I would cease to torment myself and have the potential to torment others. You see, technically none of this was illegal. I had only one citizen at a time and the cit app asks you to mention your other regional affiliations and aliases in other regions, not those in Europeia. But when XIV/NK was banned, I realised I was hardly better than that, and that staying would cause everyone more trouble. I did not become AWOL, I just silently made myself forgotten. Besides, that would avoid solving the Senate or no Senate riddle. You see the typical cowardice return…

Of course the will to return came again. Wanting to return to Europeia is really like shaking a bottle of soda and waiting for when the cap would pop off. For this I had only three solutions: remake another citizen, but truly I had left because I was uncomfortable lying this way. If I had changed my mind I would have brought back Airbus…there goes my 2nd solution. So remains good old Grizzli.

I did know coming back with Grizzli would look suspicious, but when I signed in I was animated with that rare courage to stand by my errors. Determination that flew away by the first dialogue. I started lying again. In sooth I am rather glad you are confronting me Aex. You are reminding me that there are times when one must just accept their mistakes, regardless of how gross. If this is the last time we get to speak to each other before I get banned or just rejected citizenship I want to thank you.

For the rest, I hope my short passages in Europeia will have left the following three legacies:
- The citizenship application is flawed because it allows what I just did without lying and therefore legally (arguably). Just tweak this sentence: “What other names or aliases have you been or are you currently known as in other NationStates regions or organizations “ into “What other names or aliases have you been or are you currently known as in the Nationstates community” and you’ll be golden

- You now know how AWOL people may feel about a Europeia they lost. If some Minister of Interior is interested in boosting citizenship numbers one day you have a gold mine…

- One good CA term.

I very much presume that at best my cit app will be rejected and at worse I will be banned. In any case, thank you for those years, Europeia. I might never get the masking again but I will always have at heart this haven of freedom :euro: :euro: :euro:
And to those I may have harmed in any way, you have my most sincere apologies in the only truly sincere post I made on this thread.

Best
- Grizzli/Airbus.
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Rachie Arche
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Adios.
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Kaboom
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Think you missed something:

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(5) Anyone who:

(i) conceals previous regional affiliation(s) on their citizenship application;

(ii) conceals previous alias(es) used in other regions or in Europeia when applying for citizenship; or

(iii) provides misleading or deceitful information in an attempt to obtain through deceit or deliberate silence or omission citizenship in Europeia, or more than one account with citizenship,

is guilty of the offense of Lying on a Citizenship Application under this law and liable to a punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding an six (6) month ban.


You did break the rules when you came back as Airbus, technically.
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Jay Dee
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Yeah, I’m afraid this is illegal. Believe me, I would know.

I’m probably the last person who has any right to say this, but you should have just come back as Grizzli the first time. I mean, these people were (mostly) open to my return and I guarantee you they hate me a lot more than they hate you.
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Comrade Prim
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Quote:
 
The citizenship application is flawed because it allows what I just did without lying and therefore legally (arguably). Just tweak this sentence: “What other names or aliases have you been or are you currently known as in other NationStates regions or organizations “ into “What other names or aliases have you been or are you currently known as in the Nationstates community” and you’ll be golden


The Criminal Code does apply for past Europeian affiliations withheld on the CitApp, but we are also fixing the wording on the Citizenship Application shortly (within the next day).

Edited by Comrade Prim, May 16 2018, 09:48 PM.
-- Comrade Prim --

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Le Libertie
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Back to business

Aex was entirely right.

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Lethen
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.

Our suspicions weren't unfounded previously then. For the record, I'm going to be deferring to the President on this decision.

Thank you for your candor in any event, Grizzli.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

While it may be unlikely that you read this, I've got a sneaking suspicion you'll follow this thread even after your post.

Look, my honest opinion is that you fucked up big time. Yes, your lies weren't malicious in the same way the XIV/NK and Brunhilde/etc were, obviously. You're not a serial harasser, you didn't do this with the intent to emotionally abuse or manipulate others. But, in my opinion you broke the law. You willfully mislead our Government when you applied as Airbus, and again this time as Grizzli to pretend you were different people. You willfully mislead your fellow Citizens into thinking you were two different people. I think that there should be some punishment for that -- but I don't think the punishment should be self-imposed, nor permanent.

Truth is, I don't think you're a bad person. You're smart, and when you want to engage in Europeia you do a number of positive things to help our community. However, this is one of those situations where I think it's okay to come back as yourself and earn back trust as yourself. Back when JayDee first joined he was prosecuted for trying to multi-nation. He served his time, and came back. Ultimately I hope a similar situation can happen here.
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"... Aex, who is treated like the Europeian version of Nickelback by a lot of people here."
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HEM
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I am torn.

On one hand, you came clean, which I appreciate. I can also appreciate that you didn't intend to do harm, and that many people try to start this game again with a clean slate. It's natural.

On the other hand, it seems like you truly don't think you did anything wrong? You're playfully poking at our laws, and you (wrongfully) suggest that XIV/Ninja Kittens was banned for the mere deception — they were not, and that point was specifically discussed in the ban announcement.

As it is, you have two options:

(1) You can withdraw this citizenship application and decide not to be an active member of Europeia. You will likely not be allowed back any time soon, and stories of, "I got this tablet from my friend at school...something of planes?" will probably not be effective.

(2) You can declare your intentions to maintain this application. I will instruct Lethen to waive you. I will then instruct my Attorney General to immediately file charges against you, and that case will play out how it does.

For what it's worth, I hope you pick the second option. I think you are a good person and a good member of our community who did a stupid thing. You do need to be held accountable, but that doesn't mean a slammed door.

The choice is totally yours.
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Jahka
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I think we all knew this, and this is perhaps the least malicious way someone could try to deceive us. I kinda personally emphasize with it. You should PM me; I’d love to defend you if you take HEM’s second option. :)
Edited by Jahka, May 17 2018, 04:10 AM.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

If there's no activity on his account in the next day or so it may be worth grabbing his e-mail and e-mailing him, so he doesn't think we hate him -- to let him know he has a choice and we still value him.
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"... Aex, who is treated like the Europeian version of Nickelback by a lot of people here."
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Grizzli
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Credits to Ervald for finding me this one

Kaboom
May 16 2018, 09:38 PM
Think you missed something:

Quote:
 
(5) Anyone who:

(i) conceals previous regional affiliation(s) on their citizenship application;

(ii) conceals previous alias(es) used in other regions or in Europeia when applying for citizenship; or

(iii) provides misleading or deceitful information in an attempt to obtain through deceit or deliberate silence or omission citizenship in Europeia, or more than one account with citizenship,

is guilty of the offense of Lying on a Citizenship Application under this law and liable to a punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding an six (6) month ban.


You did break the rules when you came back as Airbus, technically.
Oh yes.
Rule 0: Read the law. even if the application form offers no entry to specify Europeian aliases I am a bit Rand-ey here with this pedantry. If it is in plans to change the app then this is good.


Aexnidaral
 
Look, my honest opinion is that you fucked up big time

I tend to agree with your honest opinion. We've seen smarter indeed.

HEM
 
On the other hand, it seems like you truly don't think you did anything wrong?

Does it look like it? The truth is that I woefully regret but that late regrets are pretty useless.
Aside from the legal side of it, if I had believed that what I did was ethically correct I would have continued a glorious Airbus career until the passage of the statute of limitations and I would be golden. Well, golden from the outside. Rotten inside of course ;)

HEM
 
you (wrongfully) suggest that XIV/Ninja Kittens was banned for the mere deception — they were not, and that point was specifically discussed in the ban announcement.

If that is how it sounded I have poorly expressed what I thought.
I have read that ban report several times. I know that is not exclusively what they were banned for, I know so much that this was the main argument one part of myself was making up to justify my conduct:
"No, no, you ain't like them, you have not stolen people's identities". True, but that places me just one level lower on the Mischief ladder, see what I mean?




I would like to categorically decide I would never come back, but I know only too well what would happen. For the first few months it would be OK, but by the eight or so the soda bottle would start being untenable again and I could be brought to do things I do not want to do. Such as doing this again.

The options presented to me are like going to the dentist: you don't want it but you know it is good for you.

I do not know if I will be coming back or not. If I ever come back I need to come back as somebody who paid the rightful price of their mistakes. If I do not come back I want to leave this region in good terms (hopefully mutual good terms, but if not unilateral good terms from my side will be good enough). I love you all too much to sulkily turn my heels and walk away.

HEM, I am taking option 2.
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