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The Story Of The Little Red President; A story about resignation culture in Europeia
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Topic Started: Sep 27 2017, 01:26 AM (925 Views)
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PhDre
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Sep 27 2017, 03:00 AM
Post #16
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Rt. Hon. OG PhDre DMV AF1
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- JayDee
- Sep 27 2017, 02:59 AM
- PhDre
- Sep 27 2017, 02:56 AM
- JayDee
- Sep 27 2017, 02:54 AM
It's actually more rooted in the fact that satires, at least in my opinion, tend to be a bit harsher. Satires can go beyond criticism into complete ridicule of many people. While we should be a bit more careful about me overly critical, the EBC has had its fair share of singling people out in the past. I personally prefer to draw the line at satire.
I think any reasonable person who looked at yesterday's ebc article and today's ebc article would know immediately which is more toxic inflammatory and personally attacks individuals in this region. And I agree that there were flaws in how the previous article was handled and that not enough care was taken.
It is quite obvious considering this article doesn't bring up any particular person by name. Even if it did, the message of this article is many times less personal and offensive to Europeian values than yesterdays. This isn't about making names it's about how yesterday's article went for the throat from two comments and created a straw man out of them.
If you cannot see the difference between them, then I really hope someone in addition to you is going to be screening articles before they're published here.
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JayDee
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Sep 27 2017, 03:06 AM
Post #17
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Never Right, Sometimes Honorable
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Well the good news for you as that I'm a terrible editor so we always have extra eyes on it anyways. That means it could be about how rainbows are the best and we would still have extra eyes in it.
I'll let the rest speak for itself. One article does not define the nature of the EBC.
Edited by JayDee, Sep 27 2017, 03:07 AM.
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The Hon. JayDee Bonaparté, ESS
Special Bars Curriculum Vitae Current Positions (OnderKelkia)Former Positions Minister of Communications (51st & 52nd President) Senator (59th & 61st Senate) Deputy Minister (Communications)(Foreign Affairs) Positions held beyond Europeia Merciam Founder Associate Justice Chief Justice Secretary of Domestic Affairs Senator
Albion Grand Councilman Kingdom of Great Britain His Lordship, Baron Jay Dee Bonaparte 'de Falaise Lord of Parliament x2 Lord Commissioner of the Justiciary x1 Member of Parliament Deputy Prime Minister
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Ra Ra Rasputin Things people say Jaydee Senpai notice me-AexThat's it, no Llama for him. Everyone else still gets one.-VertegerJayDee, we need you to be the entire Government. By yourself.-DarcnessIm a coconut, brown on the outside but a little classically educated white boi on the inside-HyangyoJaydee's actually hot-MangoJayDee does need to turn 18 already, this is true-IsarisJayDee you tricky bastard-LethenWho needs an Ovation when you can have a gold star from JayDee?-ConstieD mak CA gret agin!!11!!-DrexloreHailing Satan is good. Hailing Satan is great. Hail Satan everyday for good luck-Kylia QuilorAs long as I can keep indulging my hobby to liberally swear at 7 year olds Im fine. The tears of young children is what keeps me looking so young myself.-DrecqJay is cool beans. -Pyntuma Real life quotes I've given up on being normal. I've found the only people that are normal are those too afraid to be themselves.-A wise man Look to the stars but keep your feet on the ground.-Teddy Roosevelt All religions must be tolerated for every man must get to heaven his own way.-King Frederick the Great of Prussia Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire, called conscience.-George Washington The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.-James D. Nicoll A gift from Malashaan Family Son of Owen Bonaparte
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PhDre
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Sep 27 2017, 03:15 AM
Post #18
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Rt. Hon. OG PhDre DMV AF1
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- JayDee
- Sep 27 2017, 03:06 AM
Well the good news for you as that I'm a terrible editor so we always have extra eyes on it anyways. That means it could be about how rainbows are the best and we would still have extra eyes in it.
I'll let the rest speak for itself. One article does not define the nature of the EBC.
So more than one pair of eyes saw that article and felt it was appropriate?
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Sopo
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Sep 27 2017, 05:59 AM
Post #19
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- XIV
- Sep 27 2017, 02:53 AM
The point of this article seems to be "people who resign are lazy and don't want to work", which I don't think is what HEM was aiming for, so this article seems to be a swing and a miss.
Alternatively the point of this article could be, and if it is it isn't made very well, that when people resign the President is forced to pick up the slack and extend themselves further and further, which means they are able to accomplish fewer and fewer of the things they set out to accomplish, and people aren't very understanding of that. I think the idea is...sometimes people make excuses for why they need to resign when they really just don't want to do the job anymore. Or whatever their reason is is something that could be fixed by a brief vacation. But the crux of it is that when things get difficult, even for a moment, the solution is to quit. Of course, we give people the benefit of the doubt, but I think we all know that this happens in some cases.
I would be lying if I said I hadn't done this myself.
Do I think we should accuse people of lying and giving up anytime they resign? No. Because we have no way of knowing what each person is actually going though. We should take them at face value. Real life, our health, our families, etc always come first, and we shouldn't make people feel bad for making tough decisions.
But it's important for us to realize that sometimes we should try to tough it out rather than quit at the first sign of trouble.
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 The Right Honorable Sopo Associate Administrator for Discord - High Priest of Nethel - Lord High Chancellor EmeritusMore Info I once was... Lord High Chancellor and Heir Apparent ~ 26th, 32nd, and 42nd President ~ Speaker of the 27th Senate Vice President ~ Minister of Radio ~ Attorney General ~ Minister of Foreign Affairs ~ Minister of Culture ~ Minister of Welfare ~ Chair of the Citizens' AssemblyClan  Clan Chastain Sopo (Chief), Netz, Marnip, WestGuam, Rand, GraVandius, and AramorAll Hail Nethel, Praise Be Unto Him  I am the High Priest Join the Movement Gaze Upon the Truth Offer Your Prayers
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XIV
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Sep 27 2017, 06:02 AM
Post #20
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The Heropon
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- Sopo
- Sep 27 2017, 05:59 AM
- XIV
- Sep 27 2017, 02:53 AM
The point of this article seems to be "people who resign are lazy and don't want to work", which I don't think is what HEM was aiming for, so this article seems to be a swing and a miss.
Alternatively the point of this article could be, and if it is it isn't made very well, that when people resign the President is forced to pick up the slack and extend themselves further and further, which means they are able to accomplish fewer and fewer of the things they set out to accomplish, and people aren't very understanding of that.
I think the idea is...sometimes people make excuses for why they need to resign when they really just don't want to do the job anymore. Or whatever their reason is is something that could be fixed by a brief vacation. But the crux of it is that when things get difficult, even for a moment, the solution is to quit. Of course, we give people the benefit of the doubt, but I think we all know that this happens in some cases. I would be lying if I said I hadn't done this myself. Do I think we should accuse people of lying and giving up anytime they resign? No. Because we have no way of knowing what each person is actually going though. We should take them at face value. Real life, our health, our families, etc always come first, and we shouldn't make people feel bad for making tough decisions. But it's important for us to realize that sometimes we should try to tough it out rather than quit at the first sign of trouble. See, I didn't get any of that from reading the article. Which only reinforces that this article doesn't make it's point very well. Perhaps instead of semi-snarky-and-not-really-satirical-satire of children's stories, our highest executive officers could write speeches, or actual articles, that address their point in a much more upfront manner than this did.
Edited by XIV, Sep 27 2017, 06:03 AM.
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JayDee
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Sep 27 2017, 11:05 AM
Post #21
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Never Right, Sometimes Honorable
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- PhDre
- Sep 27 2017, 03:15 AM
- JayDee
- Sep 27 2017, 03:06 AM
Well the good news for you as that I'm a terrible editor so we always have extra eyes on it anyways. That means it could be about how rainbows are the best and we would still have extra eyes in it.
I'll let the rest speak for itself. One article does not define the nature of the EBC.
So more than one pair of eyes saw that article and felt it was appropriate? DH is on a special "list" of people who do not need editing. He pas proven his talent to Europeia so we let him post articles a bit more freely. If you have a problem with that, then I invite you to bring that up. DH has never had a problem like this before so I'm not going to change a bunch of stuff about the EBC for one overreaction.
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The Hon. JayDee Bonaparté, ESS
Special Bars Curriculum Vitae Current Positions (OnderKelkia)Former Positions Minister of Communications (51st & 52nd President) Senator (59th & 61st Senate) Deputy Minister (Communications)(Foreign Affairs) Positions held beyond Europeia Merciam Founder Associate Justice Chief Justice Secretary of Domestic Affairs Senator
Albion Grand Councilman Kingdom of Great Britain His Lordship, Baron Jay Dee Bonaparte 'de Falaise Lord of Parliament x2 Lord Commissioner of the Justiciary x1 Member of Parliament Deputy Prime Minister
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Ra Ra Rasputin Things people say Jaydee Senpai notice me-AexThat's it, no Llama for him. Everyone else still gets one.-VertegerJayDee, we need you to be the entire Government. By yourself.-DarcnessIm a coconut, brown on the outside but a little classically educated white boi on the inside-HyangyoJaydee's actually hot-MangoJayDee does need to turn 18 already, this is true-IsarisJayDee you tricky bastard-LethenWho needs an Ovation when you can have a gold star from JayDee?-ConstieD mak CA gret agin!!11!!-DrexloreHailing Satan is good. Hailing Satan is great. Hail Satan everyday for good luck-Kylia QuilorAs long as I can keep indulging my hobby to liberally swear at 7 year olds Im fine. The tears of young children is what keeps me looking so young myself.-DrecqJay is cool beans. -Pyntuma Real life quotes I've given up on being normal. I've found the only people that are normal are those too afraid to be themselves.-A wise man Look to the stars but keep your feet on the ground.-Teddy Roosevelt All religions must be tolerated for every man must get to heaven his own way.-King Frederick the Great of Prussia Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire, called conscience.-George Washington The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.-James D. Nicoll A gift from Malashaan Family Son of Owen Bonaparte
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Drecq
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Sep 27 2017, 11:07 AM
Post #22
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EMPEROR OF THAT PLACE OVER THERE, RULER OF THINGS AND PEOPLES, BREEZEBORN, MOTHER OF LIZARDS
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If you don't swaddle it in metaphor it essentially becomes:" sometimes people resign because they say they don't have time or for other reasons and then pretty much immediately do other things because it turns out that the issue was something that didn't actually require a resignation, which makes me wonder why they resigned in the first place." Doesn't really fill out as well and invites increased comparison to actual situations HEM might not actually have meant. I like the barnyard metaphor. It's clear enough. It invites thought. And it has obviously caused discussion.
Edited by Drecq, Sep 27 2017, 11:08 AM.
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The Ven. Drecq ER ES ES ESH EEQ EED OR4 OR3 WE3


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Kylia Quilor
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Sep 27 2017, 12:19 PM
Post #23
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Queen in My Own Mind
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On the other hand, being a Minister is a very stressful, draining job. Once someone no longer has the responsibility, things free up, both time and mental energy-wise. I mean, I had the time to have been a GA this term, had I had the energy and focus for it, but I made sure I let everyone I could know that I wasn't interested because I couldn't spare that mental capital. I've remained an active member of Europeia despite that. The same can hold true for resigning ministers.
Granted, the times when I've resigned (as Senator in 2011, as Senator and GA in 2014) I've departed Europeia more or less immediately thereafter, but that's because I'm a workaholic who burns out and dies, when it comes to NS.
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The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
 I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person. Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies. Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism. Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
Professional Credentials Curriculum Vitae Europeia: President x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs x2 Grand Admiral x4 Senator x11 Minister of Communications x1
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Drecq
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Sep 27 2017, 12:46 PM
Post #24
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I do agree that in many, perhaps most or even all, cases a resignation can be the right move even if the circumstances dont necessitate an immediate and total withdrawal from the region, but I honestly dont have the numbers on that. If HEM has noticed a trend I havent in which people resign due to issues that likely forseeably would not have had the impact to necessitate a resignation, and then indeed turned out not to have had that impact, then I dont have any proof showing that is the case or that isnt. Hes brought up the issue, and I think he did it in a good way which didnt point at a specific person or incident while still bringing the topic up for discussion, so lets discuss the possibility. If the issue exists I certainly dont know what there is that we can do to stop it. So Im out.
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The Ven. Drecq ER ES ES ESH EEQ EED OR4 OR3 WE3


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Darcness
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Sep 27 2017, 03:14 PM
Post #25
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The motto of our story, as Sopo and others have pointed out, came to me immediately. We've seen instances of it this term.
Take some pride in your work. Part of that pride means that it is something that is difficult for you to let go of. There are few enough Cabinet positions. Perhaps we should expect people to fight for them instead of giving up when they stop being easy.
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The Rt. Hon. Darcness ESS ESE ED EMC


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Mousebumples
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Sep 27 2017, 04:33 PM
Post #26
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If you give this mouse a cookie, she'll probably ask for some cheese.
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I don't know the answer to this - and I've been removed enough from active involvement in Europeian politics as of late that I can't even give actual examples of who (recently) HEM may be alluding to with this piece. However, I can think of a few scenarios that may or may not have occurred recently or in the more distant past.
1) Newer player or a newer ministry - or both. Less established, less well-trained deputies in place. Something comes up and the Minister feels it's better to resign and pass the administration over to a new Minister going forward rather than to delegate responsibilities to one or more deputies for the coming week or whatever. I'm not sure how many Ministries have solid deputies - or how many Ministers actively feel comfortable delegating tasks and responsibility to said Deputies. For me, I know that I tend to be more "hands on" and want to have my hand in every pot when I'm actively doing Minister of Interior (for example). It was an adjustment for me to go away on a planned vacation and not be there all the time "in case I was needed," so I can't imagine how I would have responded if I had been blindsided by an unexpected RL development.
2) Younger player. This might just be me, but I remember high school (and even parts of college) as being a hot bed of drama and periodic chaos. I didn't have NS in high school, but there were definite, "OMG, this is such a big deal" moments for me in high school that I thought would take forever to fix ... that in retrospect weren't nearly as complicated as I'd anticipated. We're all aware that RL > NS, and I could see some younger players taking that to heart and not wanting to take up a Cabinet post (for example) when their attention will be divided "for the foreseeable future" with whatever drama is on-going.
I don't know how to fix these things, other than trying to offer an ear where and when I can to help out with brainstorming and suggestions. Leadership training and experience (in life and in NS) can help with all of these things - but it's understandable and arguably even expected to have at least 1 Ministerial resignation (or firing) per term. The terms without are rare ... but then you get the counterweight of a crazy spate of resignations in one fell swoop.
Anyhow, interesting starting point for discussion. Thanks for writing this, HEM.
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Europeian Awards Nation Details UN/WA Resolutions I've Passed Quotes "There are infinite Mousebumple s." - Common-Sense Politics [ Source]
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XIV
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Sep 27 2017, 04:44 PM
Post #27
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The Heropon
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My resignations came from medical issues; namely my suicide attempt and the fact that I was facing a surgery I was told might take me up to a month to recover from (because the spine is a tricky area), and I know some recent resignations have come because people aren't feeling mentally up to the task of being a minister; or they've got their own health issues or sicknesses in their families that they've got to deal with, and some people have resigned because their coursework or their jobs are taking up too much time and they don't have the time they thought they did to contribute. It's unfair to chalk that up to 'not wanting to do the work' or 'not having pride in what they're doing'.
And in every case it's much easier to take three five minute periods a day and "pwn the spam zone", or to hang out in discord on your phone during your free time to chat with your friends; it doesn't mean that person is lazy because they're doing that instead of dedicating time they don't have, or which they can't dedicate, to massive projects in Europeia.
It's no surprise to me, because I've heard this on multiple occasions from newer members, that the legitimate reasons for resigning are also compounded by the fact that even 'okay' terms are often derided and looked down upon by Europeia; who would want to stay on in a position where they know they're not going to amazing and the end result is going to be people telling them that they should have resigned or been fired? Nobody. Now, on top of that, when they do resign we're telling them that they're lazy and don't want to do the work.
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Skizzy Grey
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Sep 27 2017, 05:34 PM
Post #28
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insert random title here
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- XIV
- Sep 27 2017, 04:44 PM
My resignations came from medical issues; namely my suicide attempt and the fact that I was facing a surgery I was told might take me up to a month to recover from (because the spine is a tricky area), and I know some recent resignations have come because people aren't feeling mentally up to the task of being a minister; or they've got their own health issues or sicknesses in their families that they've got to deal with, and some people have resigned because their coursework or their jobs are taking up too much time and they don't have the time they thought they did to contribute. It's unfair to chalk that up to 'not wanting to do the work' or 'not having pride in what they're doing'.
And in every case it's much easier to take three five minute periods a day and "pwn the spam zone", or to hang out in discord on your phone during your free time to chat with your friends; it doesn't mean that person is lazy because they're doing that instead of dedicating time they don't have, or which they can't dedicate, to massive projects in Europeia.
It's no surprise to me, because I've heard this on multiple occasions from newer members, that the legitimate reasons for resigning are also compounded by the fact that even 'okay' terms are often derided and looked down upon by Europeia; who would want to stay on in a position where they know they're not going to amazing and the end result is going to be people telling them that they should have resigned or been fired? Nobody. Now, on top of that, when they do resign we're telling them that they're lazy and don't want to do the work.
I doubt you were one of the folks HEM had in mind. You left for a time, then eased back into regional activity gradually.
When someone runs for office or accepts an appointment soon after citing RL pressures as the reason for resigning from public office, it invites questions. Maybe the person just didn't want to do the first job. Alternatively, he/she may be too quick to make commitments that he/she cannot keep, such that we should expect the second engagement to end similarly to the first. Or maybe there are good reasons for resigning one position and accepting another soon after -- but we would never know, because some people pitch a fit when we discuss this issue even in general terms, let alone ask pointed questions to a nominee or candidate, so we let it slide. And the region suffers. And newer members are denied a chance to contribute, because when we have an unexamined problem with people not being sufficient committed, we instinctively default to on old hands whom we assume have proven their mettle -- even though some of them are really just deeply experienced at making commitments and not following through!
Kudos to HEM for sparking a much-needed discussion.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Sep 27 2017, 05:43 PM
Post #29
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.
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Fantastic post, HEM.
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Family, Resume, and Awards Family  The Right Honourable Aexnidaral "Crist" Seymour Somerset

Son of North East Somerset and Rachel Husband of Pichtonia Seymour Somerset, Phantasus Chastain, and Ogastein Father of Isaris, Klatonia, XIV, and America Billiards Brother of JGlenn, Apollo, Brunhilde, and Ninja KittensResume and Awards "... Aex, who is treated like the Europeian version of Nickelback by a lot of people here."
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XIV
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Sep 27 2017, 05:51 PM
Post #30
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The Heropon
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- Skizzy Grey
- Sep 27 2017, 05:34 PM
- XIV
- Sep 27 2017, 04:44 PM
My resignations came from medical issues; namely my suicide attempt and the fact that I was facing a surgery I was told might take me up to a month to recover from (because the spine is a tricky area), and I know some recent resignations have come because people aren't feeling mentally up to the task of being a minister; or they've got their own health issues or sicknesses in their families that they've got to deal with, and some people have resigned because their coursework or their jobs are taking up too much time and they don't have the time they thought they did to contribute. It's unfair to chalk that up to 'not wanting to do the work' or 'not having pride in what they're doing'.
And in every case it's much easier to take three five minute periods a day and "pwn the spam zone", or to hang out in discord on your phone during your free time to chat with your friends; it doesn't mean that person is lazy because they're doing that instead of dedicating time they don't have, or which they can't dedicate, to massive projects in Europeia.
It's no surprise to me, because I've heard this on multiple occasions from newer members, that the legitimate reasons for resigning are also compounded by the fact that even 'okay' terms are often derided and looked down upon by Europeia; who would want to stay on in a position where they know they're not going to amazing and the end result is going to be people telling them that they should have resigned or been fired? Nobody. Now, on top of that, when they do resign we're telling them that they're lazy and don't want to do the work.
I doubt you were one of the folks HEM had in mind. You left for a time, then eased back into regional activity gradually. When someone runs for office or accepts an appointment soon after citing RL pressures as the reason for resigning from public office, it invites questions. Maybe the person just didn't want to do the first job. Alternatively, he/she may be too quick to make commitments that he/she cannot keep, such that we should expect the second engagement to end similarly to the first. Or maybe there are good reasons for resigning one position and accepting another soon after -- but we would never know, because some people pitch a fit when we discuss this issue even in general terms, let alone ask pointed questions to a nominee or candidate, so we let it slide. And the region suffers. And newer members are denied a chance to contribute, because when we have an unexamined problem with people not being sufficient committed, we instinctively default to on old hands whom we assume have proven their mettle -- even though some of them are really just deeply experienced at making commitments and not following through! Kudos to HEM for sparking a much-needed discussion.
I realize I'm not one of the people HEM had in mind when writing this post, the people HEM had in mind were Kaboom, Sam, and Siol; the fact that he didn't name them directly doesn't stop people from drawing the line to the three resignations that occurred this term. One of which occurred only hours before HEM was "inspired" to write this piece. The fact that I'm not being directly targeted by the Vice President's frustration and venom doesn't mean I can't sympathize with people who have chosen to put their personal lives before service to the republic; even, and especially, if they've chosen to stay active in the community following their resignations.
I've said this to several people who've approached me in private about my reaction to this, but I would have had a much different reaction had this not been framed in the narrative of a condescending children's story laced with personal attacks and defended by the shoddy 'lol satire' tactic. If HEM had taken the time to write an actual article addressing the problem and trying to understand why people feel compelled to resign en masse almost every term, I would have applauded it. Heck, even if it had been framed as a speech calling for understanding for the fact that resignations hamper an administrations ability to complete all of the projects it aimed to complete, that would have been a step up from what this was.
Edited by XIV, Sep 27 2017, 05:53 PM.
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