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Opinion: Hard News Deserves Rightful Place in the EBC
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Topic Started: Sep 19 2017, 06:15 PM (784 Views)
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JayDee
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Sep 21 2017, 12:24 AM
Post #16
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Never Right, Sometimes Honorable
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DH, I still stand by my statement that opinion pieces should be able to remain in the news dropdown longer. I did not, however, claim that hard news (I'll stop calling them updates) did not deserve to have its own place. I also never said hard news can't generate discussion. I simply said that the work of our AMs deserve more time in the "spotlight." That simply isn't possible with our hard news articles. Especially in times like this week when we have to release hard news articles daily for our town halls. I never even implied that hard news is less important. If you ask me, giving hard news its own subforum only maintains my belief that they are an important part of our communication strategy.
What I did say, however, is that our hard news creates the illusion of activity when really it's the Ministers doing all the work. Of the 12 articles in EBC Updates, 7 have been written entirely by me and all except for Gleg's articles have been edited by me. Furthemore, 26 out of 38 of these hard news articles have been written by the Minister. 19 which were written by yourself DH. The rest were written by Aditya, McEntire, Writinglegend, Darcness, Snowball, Vac, or myself (when I wasn't minister).
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The Hon. JayDee Bonaparté, ESS
Special Bars Curriculum Vitae Current Positions (OnderKelkia)Former Positions Minister of Communications (51st & 52nd President) Senator (59th & 61st Senate) Deputy Minister (Communications)(Foreign Affairs) Positions held beyond Europeia Merciam Founder Associate Justice Chief Justice Secretary of Domestic Affairs Senator
Albion Grand Councilman Kingdom of Great Britain His Lordship, Baron Jay Dee Bonaparte 'de Falaise Lord of Parliament x2 Lord Commissioner of the Justiciary x1 Member of Parliament Deputy Prime Minister
|    | My 1776th post
Ra Ra Rasputin Things people say Jaydee Senpai notice me-AexThat's it, no Llama for him. Everyone else still gets one.-VertegerJayDee, we need you to be the entire Government. By yourself.-DarcnessIm a coconut, brown on the outside but a little classically educated white boi on the inside-HyangyoJaydee's actually hot-MangoJayDee does need to turn 18 already, this is true-IsarisJayDee you tricky bastard-LethenWho needs an Ovation when you can have a gold star from JayDee?-ConstieD mak CA gret agin!!11!!-DrexloreHailing Satan is good. Hailing Satan is great. Hail Satan everyday for good luck-Kylia QuilorAs long as I can keep indulging my hobby to liberally swear at 7 year olds Im fine. The tears of young children is what keeps me looking so young myself.-DrecqJay is cool beans. -Pyntuma Real life quotes I've given up on being normal. I've found the only people that are normal are those too afraid to be themselves.-A wise man Look to the stars but keep your feet on the ground.-Teddy Roosevelt All religions must be tolerated for every man must get to heaven his own way.-King Frederick the Great of Prussia Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire, called conscience.-George Washington The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.-James D. Nicoll A gift from Malashaan Family Son of Owen Bonaparte
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Deepest House
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Sep 21 2017, 02:38 AM
Post #17
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- JayDee
- Sep 21 2017, 12:24 AM
DH, I still stand by my statement that opinion pieces should be able to remain in the news dropdown longer. I did not, however, claim that hard news (I'll stop calling them updates) did not deserve to have its own place. I also never said hard news can't generate discussion.
I simply said that the work of our AMs deserve more time in the "spotlight." That simply isn't possible with our hard news articles. Especially in times like this week when we have to release hard news articles daily for our town halls. I never even implied that hard news is less important. If you ask me, giving hard news its own subforum only maintains my belief that they are an important part of our communication strategy.
What I did say, however, is that our hard news creates the illusion of activity when really it's the Ministers doing all the work. Of the 12 articles in EBC Updates, 7 have been written entirely by me and all except for Gleg's articles have been edited by me. Furthemore, 26 out of 38 of these hard news articles have been written by the Minister. 19 which were written by yourself DH. The rest were written by Aditya, McEntire, Writinglegend, Darcness, Snowball, Vac, or myself (when I wasn't minister). JayDee,
You're right, you didn't imply that hard news is less important. You unequivocally stated that high return media is more important.
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At the same time, the EBC will be able to continue our updating strategy without the fear of knocking the more important articles off the top of the page.
I added the bold.
Again with moving the goal posts. Actual and perceived activity levels have nothing to do with the stated reasoning for the split. Beyond that, it doesn't matter who writes the hard news pieces. If you have a capable and prolific writer who takes them on as they come up, that just puts the ministry in a stronger position overall. Additional writers always participate, and opportunities are not in short supply for news or features.
I understand if you want to encourage additional writers for the hard news. There are a lot of ways to do it. One way not to do it is to segregate these stories into a sub-forum with less visibility for the journalists.
In the end, there was no need for this move, it accomplishes nothing, and is unpopular. I think we've run our course here and we aren't going to agree. I'll let you have the last word if you like.
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JayDee
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Sep 21 2017, 02:42 AM
Post #18
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Never Right, Sometimes Honorable
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You're right. I make mistakes, and calling hard news "less important" was one of them. I'll admit I have shifted the goalpost slightly but even as it is, the hard news gets more coverage and the opinion pieces do as well
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The Hon. JayDee Bonaparté, ESS
Special Bars Curriculum Vitae Current Positions (OnderKelkia)Former Positions Minister of Communications (51st & 52nd President) Senator (59th & 61st Senate) Deputy Minister (Communications)(Foreign Affairs) Positions held beyond Europeia Merciam Founder Associate Justice Chief Justice Secretary of Domestic Affairs Senator
Albion Grand Councilman Kingdom of Great Britain His Lordship, Baron Jay Dee Bonaparte 'de Falaise Lord of Parliament x2 Lord Commissioner of the Justiciary x1 Member of Parliament Deputy Prime Minister
|    | My 1776th post
Ra Ra Rasputin Things people say Jaydee Senpai notice me-AexThat's it, no Llama for him. Everyone else still gets one.-VertegerJayDee, we need you to be the entire Government. By yourself.-DarcnessIm a coconut, brown on the outside but a little classically educated white boi on the inside-HyangyoJaydee's actually hot-MangoJayDee does need to turn 18 already, this is true-IsarisJayDee you tricky bastard-LethenWho needs an Ovation when you can have a gold star from JayDee?-ConstieD mak CA gret agin!!11!!-DrexloreHailing Satan is good. Hailing Satan is great. Hail Satan everyday for good luck-Kylia QuilorAs long as I can keep indulging my hobby to liberally swear at 7 year olds Im fine. The tears of young children is what keeps me looking so young myself.-DrecqJay is cool beans. -Pyntuma Real life quotes I've given up on being normal. I've found the only people that are normal are those too afraid to be themselves.-A wise man Look to the stars but keep your feet on the ground.-Teddy Roosevelt All religions must be tolerated for every man must get to heaven his own way.-King Frederick the Great of Prussia Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire, called conscience.-George Washington The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.-James D. Nicoll A gift from Malashaan Family Son of Owen Bonaparte
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Skizzy Grey
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Sep 21 2017, 02:35 PM
Post #19
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The mission of the EBC has shifted from administration to administration, and will likely continue to do so.
The broader issue is that subforums tend to bury content, and should be presumptively disfavored. In some cases, there are good reasons for subforums -- separating the LMC into outlet-specific fora, for example. In other cases, the usefulness of a subforum is debatable -- for instance, I would personally not separate the debate forum from the rest of TRS, but I understand that some folks prefer a social forum that's mostly free of political chatter.
I don't think the distinction between "hard news" and opinion comes close to meeting the standard for creating a subforum. Frankly, it reflects a judgment that "hard news" has less valuable than opinion, but adopts the half-measure of relegating that content to a subforum where it presumably won't attract much attention, rather than following the judgment to its logical conclusion and ceasing to produce "hard news" altogether.
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GraVandius
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Sep 21 2017, 04:04 PM
Post #20
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The Senate
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- Punchwood
- Sep 19 2017, 06:39 PM
Oh please.
This so called "hard news" has to be reported on the day that event happens or it's "late news." Updates serve no real purpose, we can see all of this "news" on the forums ourselves. The only real purpose they serve is to improve writers writing ability and seeing as it's just yourself and JayDee who mainly write the updates, it's not really serving much purpose.
The actual articles take much longer to write and have so much more effort put in them. They absolutely deserve a more prominent place than something that takes an hour at most to write and serves no purpose seeing as I can find the thing myself with a quick look at the forum. I'm 100% with Punchwood on this one. I don't think we need "EBC updates" or "hard news" at all. If one would like to scroll through multiple posts to figure out what has been going on in the region they always have the Wire. If anything that is better than a regurgitation of what was said in another thread as it simply provides the link. Its a waste of time to simply summarize events without providing additional analysis.
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Skizzy Grey
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Sep 21 2017, 08:33 PM
Post #21
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- GraVandius
- Sep 21 2017, 04:04 PM
- Punchwood
- Sep 19 2017, 06:39 PM
Oh please.
This so called "hard news" has to be reported on the day that event happens or it's "late news." Updates serve no real purpose, we can see all of this "news" on the forums ourselves. The only real purpose they serve is to improve writers writing ability and seeing as it's just yourself and JayDee who mainly write the updates, it's not really serving much purpose.
The actual articles take much longer to write and have so much more effort put in them. They absolutely deserve a more prominent place than something that takes an hour at most to write and serves no purpose seeing as I can find the thing myself with a quick look at the forum.
I'm 100% with Punchwood on this one. I don't think we need "EBC updates" or "hard news" at all. If one would like to scroll through multiple posts to figure out what has been going on in the region they always have the Wire. If anything that is better than a regurgitation of what was said in another thread as it simply provides the link. Its a waste of time to simply summarize events without providing additional analysis. See, I think that's valid -- if "hard news" is a waste of time, don't produce it. But if you're going to have people creating content, don't bury that content in a subforum.
Personally, I think some "hard news" is high quality, and some is little more than a slightly abridged version of what appears elsewhere on these forums. Perhaps the latter should go away entirely, but the other stuff belongs alongside opinion pieces in the main EBC forum.
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Lethen
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Sep 22 2017, 12:26 AM
Post #22
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.
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- Skizzy Grey
- Sep 21 2017, 08:33 PM
Personally, I think some "hard news" is high quality, and some is little more than a slightly abridged version of what appears elsewhere on these forums. Perhaps the latter should go away entirely, but the other stuff belongs alongside opinion pieces in the main EBC forum. This is how I've always felt about most articles - EBC or private - that isn't an op-ed. Its either very high-quality and interesting, or very bland and a simple repeat of what I've already read. The latter does serve a purpose I'm sure, but not for me as a reader.
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JayDee
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Sep 22 2017, 02:14 AM
Post #23
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Never Right, Sometimes Honorable
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I fail to see how "shoving" hard news to the "back of the EBC" somehow "demotes" their importance. No one's going to sprain their finger from having to click the mouse one more time to get to the hard news subforum.
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The Hon. JayDee Bonaparté, ESS
Special Bars Curriculum Vitae Current Positions (OnderKelkia)Former Positions Minister of Communications (51st & 52nd President) Senator (59th & 61st Senate) Deputy Minister (Communications)(Foreign Affairs) Positions held beyond Europeia Merciam Founder Associate Justice Chief Justice Secretary of Domestic Affairs Senator
Albion Grand Councilman Kingdom of Great Britain His Lordship, Baron Jay Dee Bonaparte 'de Falaise Lord of Parliament x2 Lord Commissioner of the Justiciary x1 Member of Parliament Deputy Prime Minister
|    | My 1776th post
Ra Ra Rasputin Things people say Jaydee Senpai notice me-AexThat's it, no Llama for him. Everyone else still gets one.-VertegerJayDee, we need you to be the entire Government. By yourself.-DarcnessIm a coconut, brown on the outside but a little classically educated white boi on the inside-HyangyoJaydee's actually hot-MangoJayDee does need to turn 18 already, this is true-IsarisJayDee you tricky bastard-LethenWho needs an Ovation when you can have a gold star from JayDee?-ConstieD mak CA gret agin!!11!!-DrexloreHailing Satan is good. Hailing Satan is great. Hail Satan everyday for good luck-Kylia QuilorAs long as I can keep indulging my hobby to liberally swear at 7 year olds Im fine. The tears of young children is what keeps me looking so young myself.-DrecqJay is cool beans. -Pyntuma Real life quotes I've given up on being normal. I've found the only people that are normal are those too afraid to be themselves.-A wise man Look to the stars but keep your feet on the ground.-Teddy Roosevelt All religions must be tolerated for every man must get to heaven his own way.-King Frederick the Great of Prussia Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire, called conscience.-George Washington The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.-James D. Nicoll A gift from Malashaan Family Son of Owen Bonaparte
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hyanygo
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Sep 23 2017, 09:18 PM
Post #24
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Well, you can't have it both ways: you can't claim that HRM is more important and that updates are -as- important. It's really quite muddled thinking about what HRM is.
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Malashaan
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Sep 23 2017, 10:22 PM
Post #25
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Supreme Malassimo
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I think Skizzy touches on a key point. There isn't a clear divide between the two types on content, it's more of a continuum with the hard facts of the wire at one end and long, rambling opinion pieces on soft cheese at the other. In reality, EBC content falls in the middle, and value turns more on quality than on the degree to which the piece addresses current events.
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I personally look forward to the Maltatorship in the Speakership..
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Vac
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Sep 24 2017, 05:53 AM
Post #26
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- Skizzy Grey
- Sep 21 2017, 08:33 PM
- GraVandius
- Sep 21 2017, 04:04 PM
- Punchwood
- Sep 19 2017, 06:39 PM
Oh please.
This so called "hard news" has to be reported on the day that event happens or it's "late news." Updates serve no real purpose, we can see all of this "news" on the forums ourselves. The only real purpose they serve is to improve writers writing ability and seeing as it's just yourself and JayDee who mainly write the updates, it's not really serving much purpose.
The actual articles take much longer to write and have so much more effort put in them. They absolutely deserve a more prominent place than something that takes an hour at most to write and serves no purpose seeing as I can find the thing myself with a quick look at the forum.
I'm 100% with Punchwood on this one. I don't think we need "EBC updates" or "hard news" at all. If one would like to scroll through multiple posts to figure out what has been going on in the region they always have the Wire. If anything that is better than a regurgitation of what was said in another thread as it simply provides the link. Its a waste of time to simply summarize events without providing additional analysis.
See, I think that's valid -- if "hard news" is a waste of time, don't produce it. But if you're going to have people creating content, don't bury that content in a subforum. Personally, I think some "hard news" is high quality, and some is little more than a slightly abridged version of what appears elsewhere on these forums. Perhaps the latter should go away entirely, but the other stuff belongs alongside opinion pieces in the main EBC forum. It does serve a purpose. If someone wants to catch up on our goings on, but has little time to actually do it by searching around the forum and reading everybody's text walls (as we are so fond of not only in Euro, but across the game), they can simply come to the EBC and find it. That said, I don't really see the purpose behind shoving it back behind into another subforum. It does make it harder to find, especially for newer members. But aside from that it also makes it easier to bury.
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Vac mercer, ESSMinister of Communications

     
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XIV
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Sep 24 2017, 11:44 AM
Post #27
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The Heropon
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I'm just going to link this here for people who keep using the 'recap' argument.
I haven't firmly stated an opinion on this yet, and I don't really have one. I don't see the subforum as a necessity or a huge innovation, nor do I see it as being unnecessarily obstructive to the business of the EBC, and I don't think it will really make things all that much harder for anyone to find. I honestly don't think it will change much, if it changes anything at all.
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Kylia Quilor
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Sep 24 2017, 02:04 PM
Post #28
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Queen in My Own Mind
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The wire is even more hidden than the Updates forum, though. Just look at the click count.
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The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
 I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person. Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies. Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism. Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
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XIV
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Sep 24 2017, 02:21 PM
Post #29
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The Heropon
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- Kylia Quilor
- Sep 24 2017, 02:04 PM
The wire is even more hidden than the Updates forum, though. Just look at the click count. Yeah, I assume most people only view the thread when they're trying to get caught up after a long absence, if then. It could definitely use some publicizing.
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Malashaan
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Sep 24 2017, 02:22 PM
Post #30
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Supreme Malassimo
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- Kylia Quilor
- Sep 24 2017, 02:04 PM
The wire is even more hidden than the Updates forum, though. Just look at the click count. That's not really a meaningful count though, because the whole content of the wire is available in the header. The forum is hidden away because the is no reason to visit it bit it is necessary for the way the header operates.
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I personally look forward to the Maltatorship in the Speakership..
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