| Welcome to Europeia! So what the heck is Europeia anyways? Can I join? So, I came here representing another region? I do not want to become a citizen. Where should I go? What offices are there for people to be elected into? What is there for me to do in Europeia? That answers most of my immediate questions. What if I have any more? |
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| Public Politics & Private Discourse; Opinion Piece | |
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| Topic Started: May 30 2017, 06:54 AM (507 Views) | |
| Lethen | May 30 2017, 06:54 AM Post #1 |
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.
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![]() Opinion - Public Politics & Private Discourse Written by Lethen On [you decide for yourself]
That was me, earlier today. I guess I did want something to do with it. God aren't I dishonest? Better just abolish my office. Oh wait. Sometime after posting this thread (during some trail hiking and before seeing Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2), I began to play with the idea of an op-ed. It vacillated between being an emotionally-driven piece and something more clear-cut but still very much emotional in nature (namely, condescending and angry). After some reflection and some interesting conversations, I settled on this piece. It will hopefully be short and sweet. For many of us, myself included, Europeia serves as a very good distraction from greater RL concerns and stressors. Perhaps paradoxically, I also use this region - as I'm sure some of us do - as an outlet, an area to vent about those concerns and frustrations. From late 2013 to early 2014, my complaints heard by many were about working at a restaurant full of frustrating, stubborn, untrustworthy, and disingenuous coworkers that I had little patience for. From early 2015 to mid-2016, you all heard about my very close relationship with my then-girlfriend deteriorating before our friendship floundered and ultimately died not long after (though I am the one that finally mercy-killed it). How are these things relevant? One reason I loved Europeia's community and players at the time was because I knew where I stood, and I knew where my friends stood. We could have serious political discussions without the sort of stubbornness and untrustworthy behavior of my RL coworkers. I couldn't hold them to higher standards, but I could hold Europeia to those higher standards. Another reason I loved the players is because one of my biggest gripes - outside of hypocrisy - is when someone will make assumptions about my responses, behavior, motivations, or how I'm feeling and try to tell me why what I'm feeling is incorrect, somehow. Naively enough, I didn't think this had changed about our community. Apparently I am wrong. I expected a higher level of respect and public discourse than what the community is willing to offer - but not what the community cannot offer! I spoke with two players I rarely speak with, WritingLegend and Verteger, and both ended up carrying our conversations to the same conclusion: a greater public discourse is needed. We are in a strange situation in Europeia, our community. We have always been a political region, but at some point, perhaps due to specific players or the increased popularity of first Skype and then Discord, our politics began to trump our public discourse and community discussions. Was there some sort of regional epiphany? Everyone is now cognizant of everyone else also being political actors - ironically during a period where I think we've seen the greatest influx of members that are decidedly non-political. And if we're all aware the other guy has political motives, then we can't talk to them about it or hint that we know. So we become more insular and withdrawn into our political party subforums and private Discord group-chats. We find refuge in our cliques. Are there still community discussions? Yes. We can't end them entirely. But they aren't nearly as often or as in-depth as they once were. It is a political transformation, but it is also an ugly one. To paraphrase WL from our Discord chat (edits made so it flows better than disjointed logs, his permission was given):
WritingLegend makes some very good points, and I feel like this really should resonate with everyone. Especially that last line. Just as there is a difference between the political and people communities here, I think we need to recognize there was a shift at some point from public discourse and private politics (where the latter is secondary as a consideration) to private discourse and public politics. The discourse not only needs to be more public, but it needs to be of a higher-quality. Namely, we need to remember to separate the people from the politics. Why? Because we all see players in other regions that tell their enemies to drink bleach or ban every political actor working against their own interests, and we think "That is not us, we're better than that." So we climb onto that pedestal. And then somewhere along the way we read some uniquely pro-Europeian article, and we climb higher on that pedestal. Then we are reassured of how we love our politics and it isn't for everyone; so we perch ourselves ever-higher on that pedestal. And then, as was show-cased at times today, we've become accustomed to wading into political discussions where we say wildly-inaccurate things and cast ridiculous assertions. We encourage presumptuous and nasty commentary that paints the broadest of strokes onto those well-nuanced players we are targeting that specific day; we turn them into black-and-white people worthy of being insulted and treated like they are lesser than. And for what? To win an argument? Or are we simply so out-of-touch with open dialogue and high-level discourse that we can only couch things in nasty politics? Speaking specifically to the situation we find ourselves in today, I have already laid bare my thoughts in a few different threads. I will reiterate that I feel like this was a hard-and-fast approach. The artist wants three statues from a boulder? That doesn't mean you take a sledgehammer to the rock and hope three decent-looking statues simply appear. I've already spoken with Verteger privately and we smoothed things over, but I feel like the law itself and everything that went into it was very poorly-handled. If the end-goal is an open dialogue and community discussion, there are much easier ways to achieve that. For one thing, I know I would have appreciated being approached beforehand for my own thoughts on curtailing the powers of the OSC and Mousebumples role. Instead I was blind-sided and instantly put on the defensive. While a dialogue has developed, there is a much faster and more efficient way to involve primary stakeholders in an open dialogue. Engage them. Talk to them. Ask for their input. I would also like to echo HEM's comments in a different thread, and this applies to both the Office of the Supreme Chancellor and the Administrative Team, in asking: Where were these people that take issue with Mousebumple's behavior before? Why was HEM never approached as Chief Admin? Why was I never approached as Supreme Chancellor? I will say time and time again, we cannot operate under this assumption that HEM, myself, or any senior players in this region are going to defend our friends and allies at all costs. I am not a person that is going to shut out all opposition and dismiss things out-of-hand to protect others that are perceived to be my friends. I care too much about our community to put anyone else above that entity in and of itself. I care about a community that puts public discourse ahead of politics, that does not let players be defined by their politics. Don't you? |
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me, basically (click) A letter to a friend By the Prophetical Blessing of Nethel, Supreme Chancellor of the Republic of Europeia and the states within, Destined Overseer of His rightful yet forgotten realms of Estalcia and Old Europe and Crystal Falls, Defender of the Faith and New Jersey, and Heir to the concept of Sarcasm | |
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| Drecq | May 30 2017, 07:29 AM Post #2 |
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EMPEROR OF THAT PLACE OVER THERE, RULER OF THINGS AND PEOPLES, BREEZEBORN, MOTHER OF LIZARDS
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Ive spend years in this region and generally gotten along with everyone. Ive always assumed that people in Euro usually follow the same general practice as me: Dont make it personal and dont assume the person on the other side of the argument means it personally. Its a struggle between two ideas. Two ways of working toward the same goal of all of us having fun in this region. And almost always a middle ground is better than either extreme. Then everything seemed to get political. Except we dont use the word like its normally defined (politics being the process of making decisions applying to all members of a group). We use it as an alternative for being underhanded. When we call someone political in Europeia we mean that they dont put the region first, but their own ends, whether that be power, status, or something else. And under cover of fighting politicization everyone in Europeia has retreated into smaller groups with each group starting to see the other as the enemy. They are power hungry. They lie and cheat. They abuse their positions. Im not sure what changed a few months back. Suddenly everyone was saying Aex was political. Dont shake Aexs hand, you might not get all your fingers back. Dont trust Aex, he will be friendly until the moment stabbing you in the back is convenient. Soon it was more and more people. Dont trust Trinnien. Dont trust Rach or Mouse or Lethen or HEM or WritingLegend or Kraketopia or NES or whoever else was or is the flavour of the week. Almost always, as far as I can tell, without much reason for it. Everyone was a purely political animal to everyone else. And of course the only defense is to act political yourself. Im probably as guilty of it as anyone else. Thankfully our system is set up in a way that is foolproof to use. Much is automatic or legally mandated in a tight frame. Politics doesnt hurt the system as long as it remains within the system, as long as we dont destroy the system, as long as we dont cut off our noses to spite our faces. Election administration isnt going to start being political. Neither is citizenship or our external diplomacy or Courts or so many other things. The politics cant hurt the system, but it can hurt what the military calls unit cohesion. "The bonding together of soldiers in such a way as to sustain their will and commitment to each other, the unit, and mission accomplishment, despite combat or mission stress." Esprit de corps if you will. But that is bad enough. Destroy the esprit de corps and you destroy the corps. If we dont want to spend time with each other anymore we wont and the region will lose because of it. We all need to dial it down. We need to stop attacking each other and focus on the fact that we all share the same goals and mostly the same ideals. We just think there are different ways to get there. And, like I said, a middle ground is usually better than either extreme. So lets start compromising again for the good of Europeia. |
The Ven. Drecq ER ES ES ESH EEQ EED OR4 OR3 WE3![]() ![]() ![]() Presidential Awards Current Positions Past Positions
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| Erica | May 30 2017, 12:29 PM Post #3 |
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Newb
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To add on to this, this is the only side of Europeia that I have ever known, and at times it's very isolating. Being told not to trust anyone when you don't actually know anyone leaves you in this awkward position of not being a part of anything, and when you feel like you can't trust people, it dehumanises them, it hinders your ability to empathise with them, and this makes the community more fractured than it needs to be. The way I interpreted the phrase Lethen used about cutting down trees was particularly poignant: there are people playing the game heavy-handedly without any real regard of how they are going to make others feel, and this trend is inhibiting any kind of discourse you might have known in the past. As for myself, for now, it's all I know. Moving onwards, I'd like to see a Europeia where people can get on with each other just as easily as they can disagree with each other, because I haven't seen that yet. |
[justified] [/justified]
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| McEntire | May 30 2017, 02:12 PM Post #4 |
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I will say that having hit the pause button on the region and came back, I feel that I've come back to a less gentle region. There is less of an assumption that others are trying to do as much good as you are. Honestly, the Honored Citizens amendment discussion got way nastier than it needed to, and I felt that it did get personal against me a bit. There is a sense of derision that may have been there before, and maybe I ignored it, but it's palpable and it feels destructive rather than constructive. It starts with giving each other the benefit of the doubt, and somehow we've got to figure out how to get back that lovin' feelin'. In some ways, I think HEM's argument about the Senate as a "law writing club" can really be applied to the region in general. We can demand total efficiency and hold people 100% accountable and pillory them when they slip up, or we can understand that this whole game is a learning experience, and we're here to build a community. We're trying to lead something together. There's a lot of significance to that. We have more in common than most people. We should always play this game with joy. Our goal should be to build a community such that no one ever logs into this forum out of obligation or begrudgingly or because they're afraid to be called out. It should always be a joy. That's just what I think. |
![]() McEntire Mormont, son of Common-Sense Politics Resume
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| Kylia Quilor | May 31 2017, 12:24 AM Post #5 |
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Queen in My Own Mind
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I have to agree. Europeia does feel a lot different from my day - the political discorse is acrimonious more often, if that makes sense. I mean, we could get pretty damn acrimonous way back when, but not it does seem to happen more regularly. I'm wondering if it is a reflection of the RL times, in a lot of ways. |
The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN![]() I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person. Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies. Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism. Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood. Professional Credentials Testimonials To My Character
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| hyanygo | May 31 2017, 03:03 AM Post #6 |
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A little reflection on the current times. Our public discourse has borrowed from Trump the ease of straight up dishonesty. The discussion is not even heated, it's banal, tired, fake and stupid. |
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| Kuramia | May 31 2017, 03:28 AM Post #7 |
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Burdened with Glorious Purpose
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This is why I've happily drawn back from what was a welcoming community to focus on another, actual, welcoming community. Maybe if you guys get back what drew me to you in the first place...I'll rejoin fully, but for now, I am happy to just not. I have been shocked these past weeks over what has traversed, and it's been keeping me further and further away. |
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Grandiose Delusions Resume ![]() | |
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| HEM | May 31 2017, 03:40 AM Post #8 |
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour
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This post feels more spiteful than helpful? |
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HEM Board Owner | http://s6.zetaboards.com/Europeia Discord Owner | Europeia's Server | |
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| Lethen | May 31 2017, 03:53 AM Post #9 |
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.
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Cerian, I think that we could become acrimonious and straight-up mean to one another back then, but there was the tacit agreement between everyone that we all wanted what was best for both Europeia and our community. We saw the forest past the trees. Nuance was our friend. Black and white portrayals of motivations, ideas, policy changes, etc. helped no one. Something changed along the way.One of my original ideas for this article was to tie back to how I see Europeia as a refuge from the RL world where the GOP and Trump are flagrantly dishonest; routinely hypocritical; and have drastically lowered the bar in terms of what is considered fair and honest discourse (relative to what it was, at least). I could sit quietly in my Office of the Supreme Chancellery, detached from the politics and drama therein, trusting the community was safe and sound; things would hum along nicely. There would be no need for me to become as invested as I now am. I felt a certain sense of safety in knowing that my office is an apolitical entity that is above the fray. I didn't realize, upon reflection, how much of a fray it has become. Naivete, naivete, my dear Lethen. |
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me, basically (click) A letter to a friend By the Prophetical Blessing of Nethel, Supreme Chancellor of the Republic of Europeia and the states within, Destined Overseer of His rightful yet forgotten realms of Estalcia and Old Europe and Crystal Falls, Defender of the Faith and New Jersey, and Heir to the concept of Sarcasm | |
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| Rach | May 31 2017, 06:01 AM Post #10 |
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At Least 5% Sugar
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In 2010-2011, there were many people in Europeia who did not want what was best for our region or its community. This is not 2011 anymore. I get it, you do not like other policies. But I do not think there is anyone who does not want what is best for this region and this comment is born out of frustration and partisanship rather than reality.
I just do not understand you Lethen, I have argued repeatedly and ad nauseam about how the Chancellery should be an apolitical office. It has been in more of my posts than in anyone else's for this debate and I posted it in both FAEP and the article on 'Political Violence in NationStates' prior to the debate. I and many others also want you to be able to sit quietly in your office, detached from politics and drama... being apolitical. How can you be so opposed to so many people who want the same thing as you do? Even with the Five Point Plan posted by HEM which you called a 'great post', there has not yet been 'acceptance of responsibility' and there has not been a town hall to discuss expectations. The ball is truly in your court and if you really believe in the political reality you have waxed on about in this thread, show us. Edited by Rach, May 31 2017, 06:05 AM.
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♥ Love and Kindness are never wasted ♥ The 2011 President of the Year Queen of Balder Unofficial Navy Girl | |
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| John Laurens | May 31 2017, 11:58 AM Post #11 |
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I'll write under a pseudonym you'll see what I can do to him
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Rachel. Stop. Just stop. Rach, I really like you as a person, but you have a major part to play in all this ugliness, and you using this article to attack Lethen some more is disheartening. The recent events here have made me seriously reconsider my involvement in Europeia as a whole. I no longer reside in the region where I can trust telling you guys personal things and expect people to actually care. I no longer live in the nice region where everyone wants to get along. |
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His Royal Highness, the Prince John Prince of Wales for New United Kingdom CV
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| HEM | May 31 2017, 12:07 PM Post #12 |
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour
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I think if you struggle to distinguish between the overwhelming support you got in your thread with political debates you should, as others have suggested, take a break from NS for a bit. |
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HEM Board Owner | http://s6.zetaboards.com/Europeia Discord Owner | Europeia's Server | |
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| John Laurens | May 31 2017, 12:15 PM Post #13 |
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I'll write under a pseudonym you'll see what I can do to him
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You misunderstood my post entirely. I'm not talking about my proposals, I'm talking about HC speaking rights and SC Removal. I don't like the way everyone is treating each other. It sucks and I don't like this culture of trying to politically undermine people. |
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His Royal Highness, the Prince John Prince of Wales for New United Kingdom CV
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| HEM | May 31 2017, 12:26 PM Post #14 |
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour
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Those are political discussions in a political game. If you don't like politics, maybe find a game that isn't...that? |
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HEM Board Owner | http://s6.zetaboards.com/Europeia Discord Owner | Europeia's Server | |
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| Sopo | May 31 2017, 12:35 PM Post #15 |
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Lord High Chancellor Emeritus
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Healthy Debate -> Heated Debate -> Regret -> Vague Blame -> Repeat This is our cycle. Every time we get riled up about something and upset each other, we ultimately come back to this idea that "things just aren't like they used to be" or "this is a product of the times we live in." Stop. Are we or are we not all responsible for our own actions? If you don't like it when things get dialed up, dial it back yourself. Either we're ok with a bit of edginess in our discussions or we're not, but we can't have it both ways. We are a political region, things are bound to get heated. Either we can accept that while acknowledging that we all want what's best for the region, or we can start handling each other with kid-gloves. But this habit of going to extremes only to fall back and deride "the times" or whatever shows a lack of personal responsibility. And it's really annoying. Please just make a choice and stick to it. Break the cycle. |
![]() The Right Honorable Sopo Associate Administrator for Discord - High Priest of Nethel - Lord High Chancellor Emeritus More Info
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[/justified]


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