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PollGrumps: Darcness Falls
Topic Started: May 23 2017, 09:52 PM (796 Views)
Rach
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R3n as well. Oh I do not use reactionary as a bad word, but they are definitely wrong on this. It is irritating when people who should really know better have been against this. It's been irritating when people like Mouse have called it a "populist brouhahha" when support for this common sense bill has really been quite split even among our 'elite' players.
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JayDee
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Rach
May 24 2017, 01:47 PM
R3n as well. Oh I do not use reactionary as a bad word, but they are definitely wrong on this. It is irritating when people who should really know better have been against this. It's been irritating when people like Mouse have called it a "populist brouhahha" when support for this common sense bill has really been quite split even among our 'elite' players.
1. I recommend you stop taking things out of context, Mouse was clearly showing annoyance of the people who were turning it into a populist brouhaha, she did not say she believed it to be populist.
2. I have not seen r3n say anything on the issue.
3. You have no monopoly on what is true or correct. You're free to believe that you're right, but do not tell me that I am wrong.
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Kylia Quilor
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JayDee
May 24 2017, 01:24 PM
Rach
May 24 2017, 01:17 PM
Wait, I misread the comment by Mouse. I thought she was saying that the painting of the CRP as an enemy was a FAEP program.

Democratic reform and this one in particular is a FAEP policy plank. Only reactionaries have been against it and to call it populist is incorrect. This process has been supported by our best and brightest HCs.
...HEM and Lethen? I don't know who else you're talking about since they're the only HCs who support this. Meanwhile, you have Skizzy, Hy, and Drecq who are against it.

You use the word reactionary as if it's a bad thing. Reactionary just means that you're against social reform, something that is not always bad. It's just you in your short-sightedness that can't recognize that you're not always right. You attack people simply because they have a different view than you.
This isn't a 'democratic' proposal, because it doesn't increase the power or authority of 'the people' in any meaningful way.

You are using Reactionary as a bad word. You're using it to paint your opponents as enemies of the Republic and of Democracy.

What do you mean 'should know better?' We're all obligated to agree with you? I didn't know you were the final arbiter of common sense.

It's just common sense to make it easier for the Senate to avail itself of the expertise of highly experienced citizens on matters related to their expertise.
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Rach
May 24 2017, 01:47 PM
R3n as well. Oh I do not use reactionary as a bad word, but they are definitely wrong on this. It is irritating when people who should really know better have been against this. It's been irritating when people like Mouse have called it a "populist brouhahha" when support for this common sense bill has really been quite split even among our 'elite' players.
To clarify my original comment:

The comment I highlighted (not the other party) was trying to paint the CRP as the enemy. I have no clue who left that comment, but smart money would indicate it's probably a member of the other political party.

Additionally, I'd view that comment as the populist brouhaha, along with some of the other comments that seem determined to take down Darcness for daring to ask the public for an opinion on a piece of Senate legislation.

But thanks for continuing to keep your outrage dialed up to 11, Rach.
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John Laurens
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This debate is getting to be waaaaay too much. The ugliness being displayed here is mind boggling.
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Erica
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There's been support for both sides from both party members and non-party members. HCs are divided, the Senate is divided, we are "deeply split," to paraphrase. But really, the comments are from individuals? They are anonymous, and they aren't representative of any group.

Members of the FEP party share common ground? How preposterous! I don't think there's any surprises here, of course some people with similar beliefs are going to belong to the same party. Even so, I don't see this as a predominantly political issue: almost all the arguments I have made personally have been from a legislative point of view. That is to say that there are clear issues with the legislature in place, and this is an efficient way to fix it.
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XIV
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Can someone link me to where r3n said he supported this measure?

Edit: Nevermind, I found it.
Edited by XIV, May 24 2017, 03:07 PM.

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Cerian Quilor
May 23 2017, 10:00 PM
Well, I can't say I'm especially thrilled by these numbers, but here's hoping the voting booth churns out better ones.

Also, I'm amazed so many people seem to be letting this move by Darcness color their view of the man - though he still has more approval than disapproval, at least.
His opponents have effectively equated this move to call for a referendum with political cowardice. Unfair, but effective.
Edited by Common-Sense Politics, May 24 2017, 02:59 PM.
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Le Libertie
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Cerian Quilor
May 23 2017, 10:00 PM
Well, I can't say I'm especially thrilled by these numbers, but here's hoping the voting booth churns out better ones.

Also, I'm amazed so many people seem to be letting this move by Darcness color their view of the man - though he still has more approval than disapproval, at least.
I would say that these numbers prove that this debate is closer than many expected. Many proponents of this amendment excessively emphasized that a majority supported the passing of this bill, in my opinion.

And regarding Darcness, it really irritates me how irrational people can act when they hide behind a cloak of anonymity.

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Constie
May 24 2017, 02:09 PM
This debate is getting to be waaaaay too much. The ugliness being displayed here is mind boggling.
This is all it takes to in ugliness to boggle your mind?

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I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.
Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism.
Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
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Drecq
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Its not really that ugly. Its mostly boring, repetitive, useless, pointless, and waaaay to heated for whats at stake. But ugly it aint.
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Mr. Verteger
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Oh man after all the craziness that went down during this debate, I can't even fathom how y'all are gonna react to the next stuff....
".. Verteger was elected as the new Prime Minister. Verteger was debatably one of the worst Prime Ministers Europeia had yet to see. His term was so magnificently awful that King HEM proposed a reform of government right under his nose so that his term as Prime Minister would end." - A completely accurate account of what happened.

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Kylia Quilor
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Mr. Verteger
May 24 2017, 04:43 PM
Oh man after all the craziness that went down during this debate, I can't even fathom how y'all are gonna react to the next stuff....
*officially starts preparing a Debate Bunker*
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Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.
Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism.
Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Le Libertia
May 24 2017, 03:08 PM
I would say that these numbers prove that this debate is closer than many expected. Many proponents of this amendment excessively emphasized that a majority supported the passing of this bill, in my opinion.
I mean, but by that logic the proponents are correct?

56/38 is nearly a 20pt majority, the only way it'd be "close" is if every single person who hadn't made up their mind voted against it, which would still leave a pretty hefty 10 pt gap.

Tomorrow we will know if the poll was way off the mark or right on the money, but if we are going to argue this contextually using these numbers, the numbers paint a picture that does not encapsulate at all what you said.

Less than 9 points is close enough. Less than 5 points is tight. Less than 1 point is what we in Florida call our average election.
Edited by Aexnidaral Seymour, May 24 2017, 09:41 PM.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
May 24 2017, 09:38 PM
Le Libertia
May 24 2017, 03:08 PM
I would say that these numbers prove that this debate is closer than many expected. Many proponents of this amendment excessively emphasized that a majority supported the passing of this bill, in my opinion.
I mean, but by that logic the proponents are correct?

56/38 is nearly a 20pt majority, the only way it'd be "close" is if every single person who hadn't made up their mind voted against it, which would still leave a pretty hefty 10 pt gap.

Tomorrow we will know if the poll was way off the mark or right on the money, but if we are going to argue this contextually using these numbers, the numbers paint a picture that does not encapsulate at all what you said.

Less than 9 points is close enough. Less than 5 points is tight. Less than 1 point is what we in Florida call our average election.
So true(a fellow Floridian)

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