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Public Evenly Split On Recalling President Calvin Coolidge
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Topic Started: May 14 2017, 05:31 AM (475 Views)
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HEM
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May 14 2017, 05:31 AM
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour
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 "Public Evenly Split On Recalling President Calvin Coolidge" HEM Tiberius Frollo Managing Editor
During the last week Europeia has been consumed by Trinn-ghazi, a scandal that erupted when former President Trinnien revived an old thread were he announced that he had been abruptly dropped from President Calvin Coolidge's Cabinet for allegedly leaking classified information.
The thread, which made waves when initially posted, had quieted down over the past few weeks without clear resolution. A debate has since played out between a plethora of different sides that could not all be adequately described in this post. Some citizens believe that the notion of "intelligence" in Nationstates is silly. Others believe that it should be okay to have state secrets that cannot be revealed, but there should be some oversight for those secrets if they impact citizens of the region. Others still believe that there's no need for such unnecessary oversight, but the situation was mishandled in this particular case. Some people blame EIA Director North East Somerset. Others blame President Calvin Coolidge. Others still blame former President Aexnidaral Seymour.
This poll sought to clear the murky waters on these issues, if only a little, and discover what Europeia actually believes:

By an overwhelming margin, Europeians believe that the situation was not handled appropriately. There was no significant divide between old members and new members in the answers to this question.
For the vast majority who believe it was bungled, we asked a few more follow-up questions:

The respondents almost unanimously blame President Calvin Coolidge for the situation, while only a few less cast blame upon his predecessor as well. Less than a majority blame EIA Director North East Somerset, who is the only government official to make a formal statement on the matter.

When then asked citizens what should happen in response to the Trinnien scandal. A majority replied that there needed to be some sort of investigatory committee assembled to have oversight in similar situations. A proposal for a such a committee has been pushed hard by Assemblyman Comrade Snowball. There seems to be more support for such a thing than may have been anticipated.
Less than 10% felt that the EIA should be totally dissolved, and even less than that (6.3%) felt that all evidence should be made public. About 1/4th of respondents did not relate to any of the policy prescriptions offered.
We then asked all survey respondents to categorize their current confidence levels in EIA Director North East Somerset.

NES is presented with a very mixed picture. A plurality of people say that they are "kinda confident" of the DEIA. However, a strong quarter of respondents claim to be "very confident" while only 16.3% are "Not at all confident."
There appears to be a new/old member divide on NES that becomes clear when we ask respondents how they would vote if they were in the Senate, and they were considering the question of his reconfirmation:

A majority of old members say they would "definitely" vote "Aye" on such a confirmation. Only roughly 15% of old members would "definitely" or "probably" vote Nay. A plurality of 41.7% of new members are undecided, and only 16.7% would "definitely" vote Aye.
In total, just barely over a majority (51.2%) said they would probably, or definitely vote Aye on NES' reconfirmation as DEIA, however the vast majority of the remaining respondents would be undecided.
We then turned out attention to President Calvin Coolidge:

Given the question before, this is perhaps unsurprising. An overwhelming percent of Europeians believe that President Coolidge deserves "a lot" or "some" responsibility in the ensuing scandal.
President Coolidge has been weathering a lot of criticism over the last week. Some voters have been restless, so we effectively asked them, should the President be removed from office?

39.5% of Europeians would either "definitely" or "probably" vote to recall President Calvin Coolidge. This is an almost even split with the 41.9% who would definitely or probably vote to not remove the President. An undecided 18.6% would be the kingmakers for the majority, though the Senate needs 2/3rds vote to remove a President.
Perhaps even more surprising than this result itself, is the gap between old and new members

Typically in these questions we see the younger members giving politicians the benefit of the doubt, while old members approach the situation in a more draconian fashion. Here, however, it's new members who are more ready to force a change.
45.8% of new members would vote to remove the President, while less than 30% of old members said the same. This is a large demographic shift from what we've come to expect in these polls.

A healthy majority of citizens are confident in the Chancellery, which is typically above much scrutiny in politics.

Finally, this question, which attracted some controversy in public spaces. It appears that most Europeia, when push comes to shove, would prefer to maintain the status quo of generally "following the rules of the game." However, there has been quite a bit of discussion for a "middle ground" or slightly modifying the system so there is more protections for citizens being "burned" in game.
And finally, the glorious commentary:
Spoiler: click to toggle - Quote:
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The poll didn't ask, but the majority of the responsibility falls on Aex
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I don't like the last question it's too black and white and I am in the middle. One the last question I think yes we should try and stick to those as best as possible in the Trinn case I think he should have been told. Trinn was someone who no one would doubt loved the region and I struggle to see him deliberately leaking info to harm us. I believe that at this point Trinn should be given a full explanation of why what happened happened, including any classified info. Sometimes I worry people forget that this is a game and not real life.
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The last question "Which statement represents your view in Europeia," is something I vehemently disagree with. Its purpose seems to force people to take opposite sides on an issue, and a very polarized one. And making it mandatory to answer...truly disappointing.
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My only issue with everything that has taken place is that Calvin shouldn't have told Trin about the leak. It was totally unnecessary, and is what landed us in this mess. I can't fathom what Calvin hoped to achieve by telling him that much. This is what I would have liked to have seen addressed in the DEIA's statement, not the generic drivel that we were all well aware of regardless.
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I can tell the author of this poll is a part of the EIA and seems to have an agenda to push. The lack of middle ground on the multiple choice questions is noted.
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The last question is confusing. By the possibility of leaving, does it mean something like Palmoniz, or a more serious departure?
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Mistakes were made. Simple as that. I wish I could tell whether NES was truly serving his interests or the Region's but I simply have to trust that it's the latter.
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While I think Cal screwed up massively here, I don't think recalling him is appropriate over this error.
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Also, I don't think an investigatory committee should be looking at *all* EIA evidence, but I do think it should have the authority to look at specific evidence when the public furor goes up in flames, like this one - basically, the investigatory committee could subpoena the relevant evidence, for lack of a better way of putting it.
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We need an iinvestigation
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Undecided on the NES reconfirmation question because there isn't an "other" option, and if there was my answer would be "I have no choice but to reconfirm, considering the EIA is NES and his contacts. No one else controls the intelligence resources and other directors and agents are in name only"
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Also, you didn't ask but I do partially blame Aexnidaral for this too. He should not have approached a Senator with this information for a variety of reasons - breach in protocol, got back to Trinnien which would have made things complicated even if Calvin hadn't mishandled this, and should have kept quiet as a church mouse about EIA things if they are possibly part of an ongoing investigation
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Well, I think this situation was badly handled. We lost an eminent citizen. I don't blame a single person but I think some persons are collectively responsible for it. The situation could have been handled better.
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I felt several questions the options were written to elicit the answer you want. For example, is just terrible. Who would want to *totally* suspend the rules at the *possibility* of being butthurt.
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The last question needs more variability.
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No comments
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I believe that Aexnidaral and Calvin both deserve a massive share of the responsibility for this situation, in particular I believe that Aex acted in a manner which was inappropriate when he involved Senator Isaris in matters and I believe the legality of that involvement should be investigated.
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The last question is excessively limited and doesn't have an option that addresses abusing by our laws but not treating play intelligence like it actually is sensitive or has significant potential to cause harm.
fwiw, yes this poll was apart of an EIA plot to brainwash the region.
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Kylia Quilor
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May 14 2017, 12:53 PM
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Queen in My Own Mind
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I did not expect this much support for a recall over this. That is a little disturbing, tbh. Much as i think Cal dropped the ball, hard, its a little much to crucify him over this, no?
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The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
 I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person. Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies. Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism. Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
Professional Credentials Curriculum Vitae Europeia: President x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs x2 Grand Admiral x4 Senator x11 Minister of Communications x1
Current Positions In Other Regions: Queen of Kantrias
Past Positions in Other Regions (Selected): MP (LKE), Minister of the Exterior (LKE), Reichstag Delegate (TNI), Minister (TNI), Reich Elector (TNI), TNI Contingent Commander, (UIAF), Director of Public Relations (Region Inc)
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Testimonials To My Character Named Testimonials [justified]I sometimes suspect that [Kylia] Quilor is here to harvest the tears of young, ambitious nations. - The Bruce O how much we have missed your cynicism [Kylia]. :p - Zaolat I'm so happy you're back but you're also crushing my dreams - Sopo [Kylia] is close to defining the modern Europeian conservative. - Hyanygo You carry an interesting dichotomy about yourself - a mix of fiery passion and cool reservation that both intrigues and concerns me. -Trinnien Kylia is the neighbor at the end of the street that you don't want to mess with during petunia season. -Cat I'd just like to thank KQ for resurrecting this thread, because it was truly what GP needed. </sarcasm>- Cormac Oh man, today I did not wake up thinking "I'll post something defending Kylia" ... but here we are. - Aexnidaral Seymour[/justified] Anonymous Testimonials - “Too much negativity and edginess”
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Mr. Verteger
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May 14 2017, 01:13 PM
Post #3
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Citation needed
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- Cerian Quilor
- May 14 2017, 12:53 PM
I did not expect this much support for a recall over this. That is a little disturbing, tbh. Much as i think Cal dropped the ball, hard, its a little much to crucify him over this, no? I did not vote in this poll, but if I had to guess I would say that people probably see this as the only notable thing about Calvin's term, and are quicker to pull the trigger on a recall because they can't really point to any other accomplishments to counteract it. His overall approval ratings were not that great, after all.
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".. Verteger was elected as the new Prime Minister. Verteger was debatably one of the worst Prime Ministers Europeia had yet to see. His term was so magnificently awful that King HEM proposed a reform of government right under his nose so that his term as Prime Minister would end." - A completely accurate account of what happened.
"I propose this to show that Verts ham fisted, and frankly bad, approach to legislating is a damn shame." - Drecq, while doing all the work I wanted someone else to do...
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"Vert is freer spirit than a lesbian at Coachella" - Aex
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HEM
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May 14 2017, 01:28 PM
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour
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I think Vert is mostly spot on here. As a matter of fact, I suspect putting the question of recall in the context of the Trinnien scandal may have actually helped his numbers — because I think only a select few would support recall on basis of that single controversy alone.
I think this has just been a really bad term, and I've seen no evidence that our Presidency (1) recognizes that (2) has any intention of righting the ship.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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May 14 2017, 01:37 PM
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.
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- Cerian Quilor
- May 14 2017, 12:53 PM
I did not expect this much support for a recall over this. That is a little disturbing, tbh. Much as i think Cal dropped the ball, hard, its a little much to crucify him over this, no? I think the tongue in cheek -ghazi suffix to the scandal is accurate for comparison to the impeachment Q for this reason. If you remove what's been happening from the picture re: Trinnghazi you have a term with muddled to weak approval and a lot of underlying angst. (And in fairness to "both sides" there's some section of the electorate that will always vote as if the incumbent is cataclysmic) These factors coupled with a high profile scandal give some voters a "wrong" to latch on to, to justify why they'd remove or impeach.
(To be clear I'm not arguing if this is positive or negative, just stating my opinion on why that number is so high)
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Family, Resume, and Awards Family  The Right Honourable Aexnidaral "Crist" Seymour Somerset

Son of North East Somerset and Rachel Husband of Pichtonia Seymour Somerset, Phantasus Chastain, and Ogastein Father of Isaris, Klatonia, XIV, and America Billiards Brother of JGlenn, Apollo, Brunhilde, and Ninja KittensResume and Awards "... Aex, who is treated like the Europeian version of Nickelback by a lot of people here."
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Lethen
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May 14 2017, 02:33 PM
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.
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Very interesting results, and I concur with HEM's statement above. Also lol @ whoever it was that thought HEM being in the EIA (apparently) makes him write biased polls. Speaking of which, that last question sure is catching a lot of flack.
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me, basically (click)
A letter to a friend By the Prophetical Blessing of Nethel, Supreme Chancellor of the Republic of Europeia and the states within, Destined Overseer of His rightful yet forgotten realms of Estalcia and Old Europe and Crystal Falls, Defender of the Faith and New Jersey, and Heir to the concept of Sarcasm
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Le Libertie
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May 14 2017, 02:38 PM
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Back to business
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I'm not sure if this is because I'm a newcomer, but I doubt how accurate the last question will be at portraying the overall opinion of the region. The second option seems a lot more rational, unlike the first option, which seems uncomfortably extreme. And its result appears to contradict the other feelings portrayed in the previous question results.
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 Le Libertie Decoeur
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Kylia Quilor
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May 14 2017, 03:37 PM
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Queen in My Own Mind
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HEM has addressed that he is aware of a wording issue.
@Vert, HEM & Aex: Good points.
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The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
 I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person. Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies. Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism. Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
Professional Credentials Curriculum Vitae Europeia: President x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs x2 Grand Admiral x4 Senator x11 Minister of Communications x1
Current Positions In Other Regions: Queen of Kantrias
Past Positions in Other Regions (Selected): MP (LKE), Minister of the Exterior (LKE), Reichstag Delegate (TNI), Minister (TNI), Reich Elector (TNI), TNI Contingent Commander, (UIAF), Director of Public Relations (Region Inc)
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Testimonials To My Character Named Testimonials [justified]I sometimes suspect that [Kylia] Quilor is here to harvest the tears of young, ambitious nations. - The Bruce O how much we have missed your cynicism [Kylia]. :p - Zaolat I'm so happy you're back but you're also crushing my dreams - Sopo [Kylia] is close to defining the modern Europeian conservative. - Hyanygo You carry an interesting dichotomy about yourself - a mix of fiery passion and cool reservation that both intrigues and concerns me. -Trinnien Kylia is the neighbor at the end of the street that you don't want to mess with during petunia season. -Cat I'd just like to thank KQ for resurrecting this thread, because it was truly what GP needed. </sarcasm>- Cormac Oh man, today I did not wake up thinking "I'll post something defending Kylia" ... but here we are. - Aexnidaral Seymour[/justified] Anonymous Testimonials - “Too much negativity and edginess”
- “We need someone like [her] to keep us from flying too close to the sun”
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Boomer
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May 14 2017, 06:51 PM
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- HEM
- May 14 2017, 01:28 PM
I think Vert is mostly spot on here. As a matter of fact, I suspect putting the question of recall in the context of the Trinnien scandal may have actually helped his numbers — because I think only a select few would support recall on basis of that single controversy alone.
I think this has just been a really bad term, and I've seen no evidence that our Presidency (1) recognizes that (2) has any intention of righting the ship. This.
It'd be interesting to see how much impact the Trinnien controversy had on his terrible approval rating over the first half of the term. It was frequently brought up in the comments for that question, after all.
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Boomer, EIN, ESS
  

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Snowball
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May 14 2017, 07:12 PM
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The big question is whether the Senate calls for a recall.
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#NeverAgain
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Julius-Snowball Reubensmark
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Lethen
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May 14 2017, 09:37 PM
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.
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- Comrade Snowball
- May 14 2017, 07:12 PM
The big question is whether the Senate calls for a recall.
Doesn't have to be the Senate; citizens can start a referendum as well. I wouldn't be surprised if we see either though, at this point.
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me, basically (click)
A letter to a friend By the Prophetical Blessing of Nethel, Supreme Chancellor of the Republic of Europeia and the states within, Destined Overseer of His rightful yet forgotten realms of Estalcia and Old Europe and Crystal Falls, Defender of the Faith and New Jersey, and Heir to the concept of Sarcasm
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Kylia Quilor
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May 14 2017, 10:10 PM
Post #12
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Queen in My Own Mind
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I'm tempermentally allergic to recalls in most cases. So far, I feel like a Recall might be much - for all that the President is absent, seems like the Cabinet is humming along mostly nicely, IMO, and I almost don't want to risk shaking that up.
Then again... where is the Panda?
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The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
 I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person. Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies. Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism. Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
Professional Credentials Curriculum Vitae Europeia: President x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs x2 Grand Admiral x4 Senator x11 Minister of Communications x1
Current Positions In Other Regions: Queen of Kantrias
Past Positions in Other Regions (Selected): MP (LKE), Minister of the Exterior (LKE), Reichstag Delegate (TNI), Minister (TNI), Reich Elector (TNI), TNI Contingent Commander, (UIAF), Director of Public Relations (Region Inc)
Medals Order of Service to Europeia  , Order of the Bronze Star  , Order of Courage x2 
Testimonials To My Character Named Testimonials [justified]I sometimes suspect that [Kylia] Quilor is here to harvest the tears of young, ambitious nations. - The Bruce O how much we have missed your cynicism [Kylia]. :p - Zaolat I'm so happy you're back but you're also crushing my dreams - Sopo [Kylia] is close to defining the modern Europeian conservative. - Hyanygo You carry an interesting dichotomy about yourself - a mix of fiery passion and cool reservation that both intrigues and concerns me. -Trinnien Kylia is the neighbor at the end of the street that you don't want to mess with during petunia season. -Cat I'd just like to thank KQ for resurrecting this thread, because it was truly what GP needed. </sarcasm>- Cormac Oh man, today I did not wake up thinking "I'll post something defending Kylia" ... but here we are. - Aexnidaral Seymour[/justified] Anonymous Testimonials - “Too much negativity and edginess”
- “We need someone like [her] to keep us from flying too close to the sun”
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Boomer
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May 14 2017, 10:30 PM
Post #13
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Well, guess no recall is necessary this time.
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Boomer, EIN, ESS
  

Resume Senator (x5) Minister of World Assembly Affairs (x4) Hunger Games Host (x2) Flag of Month Host (former) Europeian Cup Host Master of Recruitment in Merridel
Miscellaneous Click this link please! Galturin MyMiniCityI have a SoundCloud channel! Check it out!Family Kaboom Bay Son of Prometheus Father of Pyntuma [insert last names here], Aditya Bay, and Comrade Snowball Napoleon Danger Bay-Saxton Grandfather of John Doe Bay-Saxton, DMZ Bay-Saxton and NauElect Bay-Saxton Great-uncle of Cokeland Chastain Brother of Rand Chastain and LeSageStupide Chastain
Netz's Dream-Crushing Protege Only the second Europeian in history to be awarded the Order of Influence without serving as Delegate Shiny things Quotes - Trinnien
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Rach making a valid point. CSP agreeing with her. Cubs win World Series. Trump wins Presidency. Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria.
At this point, all I can say is 2016 needs to lay off the drugs.
- Calvin Coolidge
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The people who look up at the stars and dream that one day they too can break incredibly helpful tools meant for the benefit of the region in a high energy burst of bravado.
- Ever-Wandering Souls
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Sometimes, Europeia raids. In other news, the pope is catholic, bears shit in the woods, and people don't like it when someone tries to start a righteous fury over something they've done for years.
- Lethen
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"Here, let's give the kid a shiny so we don't have to promote him"
- JayDee
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Now I'm really bad at math, but wasn't it supposed to be an hour later 2 hours ago?
- Notolecta
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we need them in time for eurotoday so I can talk about how much they suck
- Trinnien
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Seriously, there are days when I come in and do these post suppressions and I feel like a parent driving a car with the kids fighting in the back seat: "One more word from any of you and I'm turning this car around, and you're all grounded for the next month." Ugh, I've turned into my parents.
- Isaris
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Just when you thought you were safe, the turn 18 already jokes are back, Boom
- Drop Your Pants
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[For making the job of many defenders easier by being completely useless at raiding, I present you with this cookie medal.
- Constie
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The people in Europeia. That is what makes us great. Not our laws, not our population. Our people. Just everyday people putting out a helping hand. A true community. I wouldn't want to be apart of any other community, because I feel truly accepted here. In a chatroom with complete strangers is where I feel most at home. Funny how that works. You guys are like a second family to me and it's great. I don't wanna ever leave.
- Aexnidaral Seymour
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(in reference to a hypothetical Aex/Calvin ticket)
Europeia United: In Hating Us
- Drecq
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Yes. The UK is slowly sinking into the atlantic. It has been a matter of contention for months whether Mays government would choose to opt for a hard brexit or a soft brexit. May has instead opted for a wet brexit.
- Anonymous
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The ministry was dead. Two resignations in a row killed it. Kaboom came in and it sprang back to life. He's the Cat of the MoWA.
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Gleg - Today at 7:58 PM boomer which resignation Boom 🎸 - Today at 7:58 PM My last one From MoWA Gleg - Today at 7:58 PM ok just making sure kind of lost count there
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HEM
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May 14 2017, 10:43 PM
Post #14
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour
- Posts:
- 33,429
- Group:
- Chief Administrator
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- March 7, 2007
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- Kaboom
- May 14 2017, 10:30 PM
Well, guess no recall is necessary this time. We can recall other people just for fun
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HEM Board Owner | http://s6.zetaboards.com/Europeia Discord Owner | Europeia's Server
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Kylia Quilor
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May 14 2017, 10:44 PM
Post #15
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Queen in My Own Mind
- Posts:
- 16,101
- Group:
- Non-Citizen
- Member
- #1,696
- Joined:
- April 5, 2011
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Indeed.
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The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
 I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person. Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies. Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism. Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
Professional Credentials Curriculum Vitae Europeia: President x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs x2 Grand Admiral x4 Senator x11 Minister of Communications x1
Current Positions In Other Regions: Queen of Kantrias
Past Positions in Other Regions (Selected): MP (LKE), Minister of the Exterior (LKE), Reichstag Delegate (TNI), Minister (TNI), Reich Elector (TNI), TNI Contingent Commander, (UIAF), Director of Public Relations (Region Inc)
Medals Order of Service to Europeia  , Order of the Bronze Star  , Order of Courage x2 
Testimonials To My Character Named Testimonials [justified]I sometimes suspect that [Kylia] Quilor is here to harvest the tears of young, ambitious nations. - The Bruce O how much we have missed your cynicism [Kylia]. :p - Zaolat I'm so happy you're back but you're also crushing my dreams - Sopo [Kylia] is close to defining the modern Europeian conservative. - Hyanygo You carry an interesting dichotomy about yourself - a mix of fiery passion and cool reservation that both intrigues and concerns me. -Trinnien Kylia is the neighbor at the end of the street that you don't want to mess with during petunia season. -Cat I'd just like to thank KQ for resurrecting this thread, because it was truly what GP needed. </sarcasm>- Cormac Oh man, today I did not wake up thinking "I'll post something defending Kylia" ... but here we are. - Aexnidaral Seymour[/justified] Anonymous Testimonials - “Too much negativity and edginess”
- “We need someone like [her] to keep us from flying too close to the sun”
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