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February Midterm Presidential Poll Results; Slide On In
Topic Started: Mar 2 2017, 02:17 AM (1,254 Views)
Kylia Quilor
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The thing is, apart from removing clear vulgarity, we all have different ideas what sort of comments should be unpublished, because everyone has different levels of tolerance for critique. There are people who just find the idea of criticism and anything even remotely negative to be bad just in of itself.
The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
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Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.
Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism.
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Sopo
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When I used to do this, I usually only included comments that were interesting or notable for some reason.
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Sopo
Mar 2 2017, 11:08 PM
When I used to do this, I usually only included comments that were interesting or notable for some reason.
Too easy. Asking editors to exhibit prudent judgement is a bridge too far! We need 4 Discord channels and a ministry with a cool acronym to sort this out!
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Malashaan
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I think this can be mitigated by providing more direction. Polls should state up front that comments should be about the performance of the Ministry, not attacks on individuals. The poll runner should then filter out comments that don't comply with this direction. There will always be hard calls on the border, and we won't all make the same call in some cases, but providing notice up front will encourage people to be constructive to make sure their comments aren't filtered and provides justification for removing the worst instances.
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Cerian Quilor
 
I personally look forward to the Maltatorship in the Speakership..
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Izzy
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When I first read these results, I didn't go through the comments sections too thoroughly, so I'm glad to see Kuramia called out the comment made about Rach. It's not pretty to look at but letting it slip by unnoticed risks creating an environment where we could see more of such unacceptable language being posted publicly. I also think that her willingness to come to Rach's defense after she has been so critical of the Ministry this term speaks volumes about her character and moral integrity. Quite frankly, I'm shocked that Calvin would include this in the published results at all without at least censoring the vulgarity, barring omitting the comment altogether.
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Calvin Coolidge
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Sorry I was unable to respond to this discussion earlier. I'll be honest, the comment in question slipped past me, I was very tired when I was compiling everything, so my apologies. Had I noticed it, I would have removed the comment. It would still be accessible in the raw data, of course, if anyone wanted to dig deeper, because I don't want to tamper with that. In general, I like to include as many comments as I can because I feel they add context to the scores given. There's no point in removing this comment now, as it has garnered so much attention, but I'll be more mindful in the future.
Edited by Calvin Coolidge, Mar 3 2017, 01:21 AM.
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Kuramia
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Calvin Coolidge
Mar 3 2017, 01:20 AM
Sorry I was unable to respond to this discussion earlier. I'll be honest, the comment in question slipped past me, I was very tired when I was compiling everything, so my apologies. Had I noticed it, I would have removed the comment. It would still be accessible in the raw data, of course, if anyone wanted to dig deeper, because I don't want to tamper with that. In general, I like to include as many comments as I can because I feel they add context to the scores given. There's no point in removing this comment now, as it has garnered so much attention, but I'll be more mindful in the future.
Thank you, Calvin! Given what Rach just posted in her own paper, I think we should show some respect to people in general!

I am not going to be getting over the contents of that comment any time soon....
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TheGemini
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I'm not surprised by the responses to the very last question on the poll.
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Kylia Quilor
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Sopo
Mar 2 2017, 11:08 PM
When I used to do this, I usually only included comments that were interesting or notable for some reason.
I think that's a metric that's much easier to apply than simply filtering out the 'too negative' ones, and I think Mal also presents another workable idea.
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I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.
Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism.
Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
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Izzy
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Calvin Coolidge
Mar 3 2017, 01:20 AM
Sorry I was unable to respond to this discussion earlier. I'll be honest, the comment in question slipped past me, I was very tired when I was compiling everything, so my apologies. Had I noticed it, I would have removed the comment. It would still be accessible in the raw data, of course, if anyone wanted to dig deeper, because I don't want to tamper with that. In general, I like to include as many comments as I can because I feel they add context to the scores given. There's no point in removing this comment now, as it has garnered so much attention, but I'll be more mindful in the future.
Thank you, Calvin. I truly appreciate your clarification that it was just an oversight.
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Jahka
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Lethen
Mar 2 2017, 05:24 AM
We have a lot to pick from Calvin. Pick HEM's brain about the earlier Euro years. He and I definitely tried to prop up a lot of Presidents to maintain the status quo of outgoing Presidents and push the Old Guard agenda onwards and upwards.
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Skizzy Grey
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Calvin Coolidge
Mar 3 2017, 01:20 AM
In general, I like to include as many comments as I can because I feel they add context to the scores given.


I'm surprised no one has called out Calvin for publishing the comment calling Brunhilde a "temperamental chihuahua," which is not substantively different than the comment about Rach. Did Calvin miss that one too??

Unmoderated, anonymous Internet commentary almost always descends into nastiness. That's why no sane person reads the comments on news sites. In particular, it is foreseeable that publishing unedited, anonymous comments will result in dissemination of sexist comments -- this is not the first time it has happened, and I have certainly noticed that female targets fare worse in these comments than their male counterparts, even when there are not openly sexist comments.

Hyanygo hits the nail on the head, as usual -- this behavior is bad for our community. We ought to start holding citizens who provide an outlet for this sort of commentary accountable.
Edited by Skizzy Grey, Mar 4 2017, 07:21 AM.
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Kylia Quilor
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For the record, if anyone leaves anonymous, vulgar, nasty comments about me on these sorts of things, anyone involved should totally keep them in, because I'd rather know that people feel that nastily to me than preserve some sort of arbirtrary standard of higher discourse. Everyone else should be allowed to make the same call if they want.
The Rt. Hon. Commodore Kylia Quilor, Dux Emeritus, Legatus, Quartius, Primus Pilus, Praefectus Vigilum Noctu, ERN
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I. Am. Not. A. Nice. Person.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.
Unfocused populism is just as dangerous, if not more so, to a Republic's survival as creeping authoritarianism.
Tell people how you feel, honestly and frankly. If you like someone, tell them. If you don't like them, tell them - the world would be a better place if we all knew where we stood.
Professional Credentials

Testimonials To My Character
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Skizzy Grey
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Cerian Quilor
Mar 4 2017, 12:34 PM
For the record, if anyone leaves anonymous, vulgar, nasty comments about me on these sorts of things, anyone involved should totally keep them in, because I'd rather know that people feel that nastily to me than preserve some sort of arbirtrary standard of higher discourse. Everyone else should be allowed to make the same call if they want.

I feel the same way, but we're both older than the median age around here, as well as more thick-skinned than the norm, and of course neither of us has any first-hand perspective on being a woman in NationStates. It's going to be bad for the region if we define what's acceptable discourse by what you and I can tolerate.

But I think we may have a more fundamental disagreement -- in my view, cases where anonymous sniping adds value are the exception, not the rule. The Internet is replete with examples of this.
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Lethen
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I wouldn't be opposed to those comments being included if they did offer something of substance but deliberately editing out the vulgar or offensive words/content (and noting it in the post).

Though part of me also wants to leave it in so public pressure could be applied to find out who it was that said it so we could shun address that player or players directly. Not attack them, to clarify, but to hopefully show them why that sort of commentary is unhelpful and wrong.
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