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An All Out Brawl: Democrats Wrestle With Their Future
Topic Started: Nov 12 2016, 07:12 PM (308 Views)
Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

So far we've got:

  • Keith Ellison
  • Howard Dean
  • Martin O'Malley
all running for the top spot in the Democratic National Committee. A "surprising darkhorse" is supposed to announce their intentions on Maddow's show on Monday.

Personally, I like Keith Ellison but I want someone as the Chair who isn't an elected official. I believe we need someone at the helm of the DNC who can focus solely on rebuilding the party. I do not believe Martin O'Malley is up to the task. But, I also believe that whomever helms the DNC next must be someone from the center-left to Sander's wing of the party.

I'm keenly interested to see who announces on Monday on Rachel Maddow's show, but currently my favorite for the position is Howard Dean followed closely by Keith Ellison.
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North East Somerset
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Howard Dean has a successful track record as Chair of the DNC, so surely a hard candidate to top.

I'll just errr, leave this link in here though....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6i-gYRAwM0&t=32s
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Ervald
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I think it would be funny if Bernie Sanders announced he was running.
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Trinnien
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HEM
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour

North East Somerset
Nov 13 2016, 02:22 AM
Howard Dean has a successful track record as Chair of the DNC, so surely a hard candidate to top.

I'll just errr, leave this link in here though....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6i-gYRAwM0&t=32s
Remember when a simple scream was enough to be considered un-Presidential?
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Punchwood
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I feel so sorry for Dean though, he was born just a little to early. Had he been born a few years later that would have been nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBnIq3Bgdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15WhOT_lQiA

These two videos explain it perfectly. America is not a left-wing country! New York and California may be left-wing states but America as a whole is not. America is either slightly right-wing or a centrist country depending on your view. Even here in the UK which is further to left than America, a proper left-wing party cannot win power. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn who shares the same views as Bernie Sanders is suffering from the lowest poll numbers they have ever in opposition, Labour would drop to somewhere around 190 MPs. During the 1980s where Labour was a left-wing party it suffered it's darkest days. Labour's most successful leader was a centrist! Tony Blair won because he was centrist, Labour was still more left-wing than the Torries but they did not alienate the majority of voters with strong left-wing ideas. If the UK can't elect a real left-wing party then how the hell can the US?

I come from a left-wing region of UK, Scotland is by far the most liberal region of the UK. I enjoy being able to vote for a real left-wing party in regional elections, however I recognise the fact that the UK as a whole is not very left-wing. So come UK elections I support the centrist candidate because they can win elections. The West Coast and the NE need to understand that middle America is not left-wing, it is centrist leaning rightward. What may be electable where you come from, may not be somewhere else. Just as the idea of a tea-party candidate winning the Governorship of New York is laughable so is the idea of a socialist winning the Governorship of Arizona or North Carolina, two states that Dems will have to start to win.

If Dems move further to the left they will be in an even worst position than they are in now. Obama is as far left as they can go and he destroyed the Dems on both a federal level and even more so on a state level.
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Lethen
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Remember when I was famous? Neither do I.

I doubt they'll shift even further to the left. If anything, they'll do what has happened every election cycle where one party or the other has overplayed their hand: they'll shift/stay more towards the center, lick their wounds, and improve the message they're trying to sell.
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Notolecta
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Lethen
Nov 13 2016, 05:43 PM
I doubt they'll shift even further to the left. If anything, they'll do what has happened every election cycle where one party or the other has overplayed their hand: they'll shift/stay more towards the center, lick their wounds, and improve the message they're trying to sell.
Normally you would be correct but with an energized and upset progressive wing that is convinced the democrats lost because they picked an establishment moderate democrat, that won't go over well. If they move more to the center they likely lose a lot of that wing of the party, but if they move to the left they likely destroy their chances in blue collar white sububurbs while facing the potential loss of big donors who might not see that version of the democratic party as viable.

The republicans are in even worse shape honestly. The only thing preventing a splinter is their victory across the board, but even then you have very different segments of the party winning various posts and few of those segments get along. That's not really new, but Donald Trump added a new populist wing that didn't really have a huge profile in the republican party that added to the already large number of segments and raised tensions.

Really these struggles aren't new for either party, they've both been coallitions trying to opperate as unified entities, the main force keeping them together is the presidency. Will either party break up, unlikely, but things haven't been this heated in recent times. The likely outcome is something similar to what has happened about once or twice a century historically, where you will see a fundamental shift in party identities and bases and agenda. It's also possible that a separate party could emerge in place of one of the republicans or democrats with a few segments of the other party lumped in and a few segements of the party it made the most gains from either becoming a minor party or a part of the other party. Regardless, I think we are upon a major shift in our party system like some of the ones we've had in the past, the question is when will it fully play out and how.
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Punchwood
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This is why you guys need PR, the two older parties can split and the different sub sections can work together and get things done rather than wrestling for control of the party. But yeah in TSP people are on the far left and they believe that Dems lost the election due to a moderate being the nominee and they think the party should go leftward.
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Notolecta
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Punchwood
Nov 13 2016, 07:55 PM
This is why you guys need PR, the two older parties can split and the different sub sections can work together and get things done rather than wrestling for control of the party. But yeah in TSP people are on the far left and they believe that Dems lost the election due to a moderate being the nominee and they think the party should go leftward.
PR would not work well in the U.S., partially because of the size and regional diversity of the country and partially because of the presidential system. I don't like pr personally because it elimates candidates and outside runs and basically just gives parties all the power to decide who legislators are. I'd much prefer instant run-off elections requiring 50%+1 across all offices at all levels.
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Rach
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HEM
Nov 13 2016, 03:43 PM
North East Somerset
Nov 13 2016, 02:22 AM
Howard Dean has a successful track record as Chair of the DNC, so surely a hard candidate to top.

I'll just errr, leave this link in here though....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6i-gYRAwM0&t=32s
Remember when a simple scream was enough to be considered un-Presidential?
1800 US election:

Thomas Jefferson on John Quincy Adams character: "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

John Quincy Adam on Thomas Jefferson: "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

So I'm not sure if anything is really considered un-Presidential in American history.....
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Punchwood
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Notolecta
Nov 13 2016, 10:11 PM
Punchwood
Nov 13 2016, 07:55 PM
This is why you guys need PR, the two older parties can split and the different sub sections can work together and get things done rather than wrestling for control of the party. But yeah in TSP people are on the far left and they believe that Dems lost the election due to a moderate being the nominee and they think the party should go leftward.
PR would not work well in the U.S., partially because of the size and regional diversity of the country and partially because of the presidential system. I don't like pr personally because it elimates candidates and outside runs and basically just gives parties all the power to decide who legislators are. I'd much prefer instant run-off elections requiring 50%+1 across all offices at all levels.
Not in Presidential Elections, that's impossible the bets would be an instant run off. However in Congressional and state elections I see no reason why it would not work. I mean we say this year how unpopular both parties are and how poorly they work together. The only thing that keep those two parties together is their hatred of the other party.
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Notolecta
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Notty

Punchwood
Nov 14 2016, 12:42 AM
Notolecta
Nov 13 2016, 10:11 PM
Punchwood
Nov 13 2016, 07:55 PM
This is why you guys need PR, the two older parties can split and the different sub sections can work together and get things done rather than wrestling for control of the party. But yeah in TSP people are on the far left and they believe that Dems lost the election due to a moderate being the nominee and they think the party should go leftward.
PR would not work well in the U.S., partially because of the size and regional diversity of the country and partially because of the presidential system. I don't like pr personally because it elimates candidates and outside runs and basically just gives parties all the power to decide who legislators are. I'd much prefer instant run-off elections requiring 50%+1 across all offices at all levels.
Not in Presidential Elections, that's impossible the bets would be an instant run off. However in Congressional and state elections I see no reason why it would not work. I mean we say this year how unpopular both parties are and how poorly they work together. The only thing that keep those two parties together is their hatred of the other party.
Because ultimately you'd get several sub-cultures that are dominant in one area that currently get representation, but would get drowned out in a PR system. Also the presidential race is what makes coalition parties rather than a coalition of parties so viable.
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HEM
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former substitute senator to aexnidaral seymour

Rach
Nov 13 2016, 11:52 PM
HEM
Nov 13 2016, 03:43 PM
North East Somerset
Nov 13 2016, 02:22 AM
Howard Dean has a successful track record as Chair of the DNC, so surely a hard candidate to top.

I'll just errr, leave this link in here though....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6i-gYRAwM0&t=32s
Remember when a simple scream was enough to be considered un-Presidential?
1800 US election:

Thomas Jefferson on John Quincy Adams character: "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

John Quincy Adam on Thomas Jefferson: "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

So I'm not sure if anything is really considered un-Presidential in American history.....
*in modern times.
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Aexnidaral Seymour
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Somebody's got to keep you entertained.

Kept this thread here just for this-- looks like a few of these people have dropped out.

However, interesting, Labor Secy. Tom Perez has jumped in.

I honestly like the dude, I think he'll wind up getting my support now.
Edited by Aexnidaral Seymour, Dec 16 2016, 07:05 PM.
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