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| Competitive Battling Guide | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 23 2008, 08:14 AM (453 Views) | |
| mag | Jan 23 2008, 08:14 AM Post #1 |
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zzz
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This is a boredom and Coffee fueled assistance thread really, as I feel as if someone should step in and actually help the people who really have no clue what they are doing. sort of like a competitive guide per se. I plan to go through as many aspects of battling as possible in this short amount of space to really make something that is worth it really. Also to unclutter this whole section! First thing I'll explain, I suppose, is how to build a team in the first place. Team Building First thing you should think about when you're planning on building a team, is what sort of team you want it to be. This is probably the most important thing, as if (like anything in life) you don't have something to aim for when doing something, your team will probably end up like many, and be 6 randomly strung together Pokémon with an additional hope for the best! If you choose to make your team around one Pokémon, which I find is always the way most successful teams of mine come about, you have to think carefully about what you want this Pokémon to do, why it is worth basing a whole team around, and well, will it ****ing work in the first place?! Basing your team around something experimental can work as well, like, for example, Choice Specs/Scarf Empoleon. But it requires a lot of thought to actually pull it off. Right, now I'll divulge into what sorts of teams you can make - correct me if I'm a little rusty on this! Mixed/Standard Teams These are obviously the most common teams. Not really sure what to call these sorts of teams, but my description will be undoubtedly more valuable than the title! Teams that have a collection of 6 of the biggest threats/most popular Pokémon in the Metagame. Usually set up with one Physical Sweeper, one Special Sweeper, a Special Sponge, a Physical Wall, a Mixed Sweeper, and finally something that will set down Stealth Rock/help with Walling/covering various weaknesses. This gives you a wide span of choices, and are usually pretty successful, but never really have too much success on anything more than a boring average Shoddy Battle/WiFi battle. By this I mean, they work fine if you're just playing against people who are either not too great at the game, but not awful, playing for a bit of fun. Usually pretty all rounded, but nothing interesting or special. "All out Attack" teams I probably see these used most by slightly more inexperienced players or people looking for some fun. Usually based around destroying your opponent as quickly as possible. Not a bad thing, though not something I favour. In some cases, they can work rather well - for example, if you're against someone with 6 Pokémon that compliment each other nicely both offencively and defencively. By this I mean that their Typings contrast so that they are able to come in on Pokémon that would threat another on their side, and so they are not completely walled by one singular Pokémon (an extreme example, but eh). These teams can be blocked quite easily, but you have to put a considerably amount of thought into your typings, and "what" walls "what" with the help of "what" plus "what". May seem a little confusing, but I'll explain this later when talking about counters. Stall Teams Teams that are often misunderstood. Most famous Stall team of the 4th Generation is Obi's one. Not a favourite team of mine, but that gives you a fair enough idea to how they are made and what they do. Always based around Secondary Damage, which can be achieved by laying down Spikes and Stealth Rock, Sandstorm/Hail Damage, and Toxic/Toxic Spikes (less so with burns as in the long run, that doesn't deal as much damage). The idea is to have as many Pokémon covered in your team as possible, as many times as possible (eliminating the chances of being caught off by a random Critical Hit or Freeze), so you can just focus on forcing them out more that straight up killing them. Forcing them out obviously causes grief for the opponent as they have to suffer more secondary Damage. Things that are utterly essential for these sorts of teams are; Spikes, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes (usually all), one/more Pokémon with Toxic to hit Flyers that avoid your Toxic Spikes, Sandstorm/Hail to eliminate Leftovers recovery and assist in hurting Choice/Life Orb/any other non Leftovers Pokémon (Hail less so), Phazer(s) to force more Secondary Damage, as much recovery as possible (Wish is always advised on at least one Pokémon) to keep your Pokémon alive, a Ghost (to block Rapid Spin) - Dusknoir and Spiritomb being the 2 most popular choices as they are the most Defence orientated, as well as a selection of Pokémon that genuinely work very well together countering as much of the OU Metagame as possible. Some teams can have one Pokémon to clear up the mess that has been made by the secondary Damage during the match. This role usually falls to Tyranitar or another something with a Stat upping move who's rather fast. More Defencive Teams Not to be complicated with Stall Teams, as their motives are always completely different. Usually compiled by players who have a fair understanding of Pokémon, and what movesets are best, what goes best with what, and generally what will cause most teams issues. If not all, most of the Pokémon will have Max/Almost Max HP (max Leftovers recovery usually the reason for some things not having max HP), and all Pokémon on the team will usually be based around resistances rather than all out walling. A great example of a Pokémon who fits on these kinds of teams and isn't particularly defencive is Lucario. Lucario resists Rock, Dark and Bug 4x's, Steel, Ice, Grass, Normal, Ghost, and Dragon 2x's, and is completely immune to Poison. This means he can be put onto a team that is slightly CB Tyranitar weak (loose example) and still contribute to the Defence as well as adding a fair deal of offence. Pokémon that fit very well onto these teams are Bulky Gyarados', Bulky Salamence's, Curse Snorlax's, Rhyperior, Counter Tyranitar (a favourite of mine currently), as well as many others. They usually have 2 purposes; to Support/Defend, and pack quite the punch at the same time if you only look the other way! My favourite and most successful teams are always based around this concept. It happens to be the same concept that I've used in all my teams since I started playing Competitively, actually. These teams never rely on Secondary Damage, like Stall teams do, but it an be incorporated on occasions. For example, a Pokémon may have Toxic, Something is bound to have Stealth Rock, as it's the most influential move of the generation, and for a good reason, or it may even include something with Spikes, though you shouldn't get sidetracked, and add too much in the way off stalling "tools", as you're not making a stall team after all! Baton Passing Teams Been around forever, and not very interesting. The idea of the whole concept is to remove all luck from the field, and set up your stats for a final sweep. This puts the game under the users control, completely, meaning if it is an average BP team, it can beat the hell out of almost everything - worst ones are when there is some douche behind it who gets an ego boost unimaginable to standard players. Boring, and I think even banned in certain situations I heard they are rising in popularity recently though (?)! Don't quote me on this though, as I'm not sure, and haven't played on Shoddy in a fair while. Trick Room Teams Very fun teams to use, and can be deadly if used well. Usually have 2 members on a standard looking team who have the move Trick Room (We all know how it works, and if you don't; http://serebii.net/attackdex-dp/trickroom.shtml ). Usually, all the members on these teams have -Spd Natures, and 0 Speed IVs, to make the most of the Trick Room fun. They will almost always have 1/2 Pokémon who are very slow ready to sweep. A good example is Rhyperior with Swords Dance. After Trick Room has been added to play, this thing is so scary, even more so than normal, and it is one of the scariest Pokémon in OU in the first place, tbh! Usually used more for the fun than seriously. Hail Teams Based around the new addition to this generation; Snow Warning. Hail has been shunned completely in comparison to Sandstorm/other weather effects in Pokémon as of now, but now you can make fun Hail Teams!! The teams are usually started off with Abomnasnow, but definitely have him somewhere in the team. From experience, I've found these teams can be very successful, but they take more effort and it is almost not possible to create one that works more that Sandstorm Teams. Walrein though gives Hail teams hope, as his ability paired with his moveset (Substitute/Protect/Toxic/Surf or Blizzard) is possibly the most annoying thing you will ever encounter. He subs on the switch, and Poisons/Subs/Protects you out of all your PP, attacking on occasion. Huge problems reside in the popularity of Rock, Fighting and Fire moves, alongside the overall "shittyness" of the defencive Ice Type. Resisting Ice and Ice alone (unless it has a second type) really is awful. Other teams that may be seen in OU - Mono Teams (Not considered Competitive, although used for fun on occasion) - BL Teams that are composed to compete in the OU environment. Usually made for the "cool" factor - UU Teams that are composed to compete in the OU environment. Same as above, but you get serious cool points. - NU I suppose could get a mention, but you're pushing it with this. - Rain/Sun teams. With the addition of Heat Rock and Damp Rock prolonging Rain and Sun time, the use of said Conditions may be used in OU Play more confidently. Doesn't make them very good though, as Tyranitar/Hippo will spoil your fun, no doubt. (please feel free to comment on this section and tell me if I've missed something out that I need to explain/explain more, and I'll edit) ---------------------------------------- How to Go About Building a Team Now we know what kinds of teams that exist in OU play, and how to make a team of your own. Next I'll explain what you need to counter when using one of the ideas above. For the most part, all teams will need to be able to counter a select few Pokémon that will be seen on most teams. I suppose a shortlist of these Pokémon would be summed up by Shoddy's Most popular Pokémon list. Here; http://shoddybattle.com/stats As the stats show us what Pokémon are used most commonly, we can see what we need to put high up the priority list in terms of counters. If I just take the top 30 for now; 1. Blissey (43380 usages) 2. Garchomp (36949 usages) 3. Gengar (36229 usages) 4. Gyarados (30484 usages) 5.Tyranitar (29312 usages) 6. Infernape (27667 usages) 7. Salamence (24953 usages) 8. Metagross (24354 usages) 9. Weavile (24286 usages) 10. Cresselia (24109 usages) 11. Swampert (23047 usages) 12. Heatran (22805 usages) 13. Bronzong (21910 usages) 14. Skarmory (21158 usages) 15. Starmie (20791 usages) 16. Forretress (20311 usages) 17. Lucario (20254 usages) 18. Gliscor (19339 usages) 19. Breloom (18661 usages) 20. Heracross (17793 usages) 21. Electivire (15122 usages) 22. Dusknoir (14580 usages) 23. Togekiss (14055 usages) 24. Hippowdon (12851 usages) 25. Porygonz (12200 usages) 26. Magnezone (12065 usages) 27. Azelf (11872 usages) 28. Machamp (11122 usages) 29. Vaporeon (10971 usages) 30. Donphan (10703 usages) From this short list, you should be able to gauge what you're looking to counter on your team initially, then if you move further down the list, you should look to see if you can handle those Pokémon as well, or if they are going to cause you any considerable threat. Though, in fairness, you won't be able to counter EVERY Pokémon that is even a remote threat, but you should always look to see if you can deal with a fair majority of them with your new team, and to see if you have any glaring weaknesses. So you know what to counter, but how to do it? You can use a team that has the occasional Sponge, and then a couple of Pokémon that wall certain things. For example, one thing that is essential to any team is a Rock resistant Pokémon. The reasoning behind this is the fact that even if a Pokémon has a huge Defence figure (aka, Skarmory), it will still not be able to slow Tyranitar down even in the slightest. So in order to stop it in it's track and successfully counter it, you need something that resists at least one of it's main attacks, and isn't weak to another - this moreso when dealing with Dragon Dancing versions - and of course able to deal with it in the first place (e.g. Bronzomg's Gyro Ball dealing with Dragon Dance versions and/or Hypnosis versions in general). Another essential addition to any team is a Fighting resistant Pokémon. This is for the same reason as a Rock resist, though more annoying as Lucario is special Based and avoids Salamence's/Gyarados' Intimidate, and Gliscor cannot come in safely either. Though Cresselia/Spiritomb is always on hand when theyneed be. Dusknoir walls most Fighters as well. Normal Typing is something that I also feel you need a resistance against, though this will tie in with the inclusion of Steel Types being added to fend off Dragon Types more. Tyranitar I feel does this best, as he has base 110 Def, and 100 SDef which is boosted moreso by sandstorm. Another Type I think you have to have a resistor for, and not all out sponging is Dragon. As every team almost requires a Steel Type to have sufficiant defence against any variation of a Salamence/Garchomp. Dragon is lol broken. Cress I suppose walls Garchomp, but if Chompy get's a SD on the switch and then uses Outrage, Cresselia is going to die, as it cannot take the second hit as well as not being able to OHKO without a stupid amount of EVs - even so, if you waste the EVs on SAtk to hurt Garchomp more, you're going to die easier to attacks. Having a Focus of the Team Building a team around a certain Pokémon is what making good teams is about. If you start your team building with an idea of what you want to base said team around, then the team will be more all rounded, stable and successful. For example, if you pick one sweeper/choice Pokémon to be the focus of the team, and build the rest of the team around that, covering the weaknesses, and making sure that there aren't any Pokémon you cannot deal with. I'll use the example of a Metagross - as this is a popular Pokémon that isn't always used well, that is deadly, especially with the right support. I'll use a standard set of; Metagross @ Choice Band Trait: Clear Body EVs: 196 HP / 216 Atk / 88 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Meteor Mash - Thunderpunch - Earthquake - Explosion / Bullet Punch This is completely walled by Swampert/Skarmory/Bronzomg/Very Bulky Waters/Hippowdon mainly. Things that resist Steel and have a large amount of Defence that aren't weak to Earthquake! When basing your team around this, you'd have to take into consideration what Metagross is weak to, and what can resist it's weakness, and if possible at the same time, counter the Pokémon that he is weak to. Magnezone deals with Skarmory and Eartquake-less Bronzomg, and can come in and annoy some Water Types like Suicune, Milotic, and can destroy Empoleon. Alternatively, Heatran. He can come in on Skarmory every time, and force it out without question, and it can also beat Bronzomg after it has Hypnosis'd already, and doesn't Earthquake. Heatran also covers Metagross' Fire weakness, and adds a Special Element to the side - even if it does add a huge Earthquake weak now, as this can be overcome (Scarf version is always my favourite). In this instance, I'm going to add Scarf Heatran; Heatran @ Choice Scarf Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 48 HP / 208 Spd / 216 SAtk Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Fire Blast - Hidden Power [Electric] - Earth Power - Explosion / Dragon Pulse This also makes it harder for some of the counters for Heatran to come in and attempt to counter it. Now you'll want to concentrate on your Ground weakness, as well as stopping Fighters. You'll also want to concentrate on stopping various other things that Metagross and Heatran do not stop already. Celebi/Cresselia I find great partners for these 2, as both resist Ground and Fighting, and work in conjunction with Metagross' and Heatran's resistances and weaknesses. I'll add Cresselia here as it can be a Stalker as well; Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Ice Beam - Charge Beam - Rest - Sleep Talk Cress adds resistances to Gyarados, Garchomp, Electravire, etc, etc. Thus far, you have; Weaknesses: Ground x 2 Fire x1 Bug x1 Ghost x1 Dark x1 Fighting x1 Resistances (x2): Rock x1 Flying x2 Normal x2 Dragon x2 Dark x1 Fighting x1 Grass x1 Steel x1 Ice x1 Psychic x2 Resistances (x4): Grass x1 Steel x1 Bug x1 Ice x1 Psychic x1 Immunities: Poison x2 Ground x1 Fire x1 And because of Cresselia's all out sponging, you've got counters for Water Types, Electrics (except Raikou/Jolteon to a degree) and Dragons (moreso). You will still have issues with some Sweepers like Infernape, Gengar, Weavile (ish), SD Heracross, Agility Metagross, Tyranitar, etc. A Spiner is also lacking from the team, as is any Secondary Damage like Stealth Rock. Tyranitar and Metagross can be countered by Hippwodon, and so does that add extra defence on the part of Countering Scarf Heracross/Garchomp/Electravire/Physical Infernape, and it also adds Sandstorm to the team, which works well with the current Pokémon on the side. Not to mention Stealth Rock as a standard. The set; Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sandstream EVs: 236 HP / 232 Def / 40 SDef - Earthquake - Ice Fang - Stealth Rock - Slack Off The addition of Sandstorm for any team has to be thought out, as if you have 5 Pokémon that aren't immune to Sandstorm, then add it to the mix, you're going to suffer slightly, especially if one or more of said Pokémon is not holding Leftovers, for whatever reason. So whenever you add a Hippowdon/Tyranitar or even Abomnasnow, make sure that your team is semi built around Sandstorm immune as well as whatever it is you're doing. This applies especially towards things like Moonlight Cresselia and less so, other things with Moonlght/Synthesis/Morning Sun. Else it can be more of a hindrance to you than your opponent, and thus immediately putting you at a disadvantage that you could have quite easily avoided. In terms of how to gauge how many Sandstorm immune Pokémon on one team, I always like to have choice Pokémon/Bulky team members being immune more so, and the Pokémon that aren't immune I feel have to have a way of recovering, or in some cases be sweepers used only in a late game situation. Oh, and of course, don't add a Tyranitar to a team based around sunny day, for example, as that will just defeat the object - maybe a little basic and straight forward, but I felt like it needed mentioning. Hippowdon benefits this team by adding more coverage of Garchomp, Electravire, Heracross (to a degree), Physical Salamence, Metagross (more or less), and well basically most things that are physical and don't land a Super Effecgive hit on it, as well as Sandstorm Support and Stealth Rock support. Also, because it can heal itself, it adds a little more bulkyness to the side. As it stands, this team will suffer to the hands of a fair deal of Pokémon with Nasty Plot/Calm Mind, as after one Calm Mind Cresselia wont be able to even touch them, and because it doesn't have all that much in the way of SAtk behind it's Attacks, it wont be able to significantly damage them to force a switch. Though of course things like Azelf/Alakazam/PorygonZ are countered by Heatran/Metagross, though only if you swap into them on the SAtk+ rise turn, and if they don't have Focus Sash and haven't introduced Hippowdon to the battle as of yet. Mixed sweepers like Infernape are still going to give issues, but as you can see, the amount of things that are a problem to this team is shrinking swiftly. A Spinner is also missing from the side, as is something else to come in on Spikers, Stealth Rocker'ers, and who can get rid of Toxic Spikes without being hindered too badly. An Extra Gyarados counter is never frowned apon either. So I've decided to add a Starmie to the mix. Starmie helps with some of the issues that remain, as well as helping to add bulkyness to the team, and makes sure that certain things do not sweep if they so happen to get past one of your other counters. The set; Starmie @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 236 HP / 216 Spd / 56 SAtk - Surf - Thunderbolt - Recover - Rapid Spin Starmie helps clean up as well, as with it's speed it will outrun a fair majority of Pokémon. The only things that are left as large problems, would be Gengar and Raikou, and to a certain degree, Specs Salamence/Heatran. And as the side is Heavily sided towards Defence, the addition of a Blissey wouldn't go a miss. She also adds support to the team in her Wishpassing abilities. Nothing really needed in terms of explanation for Blissey, so here is the set; Blissey (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd - Seismic Toss - Ice Beam / Flamethrower - Wish - Protect Boring, but it counters all the Special threats that remain. Also, with Wish, it makes the team that much more bulky, giving support to the only 2 Pokémon on the team that cannot recover, and who do most of the damage on this team. Also, with Protect, you can remove some of the prediction needed to beat some things. For example, Tyranitar/Heracross/Machamp/Weavile/Metagross will come in on you without fail, and assuming they are CB versions, when you Protect on their attacking turn (assuming you've wished/attacked on the switch in turn), then you can swap accordingly as you know what move they are going to use! Counter List If we look back at the top 30 Pokémon used on shoddy list, we can go through systematically, and tick off what we have counters for and waht we can come in on easily.
As you can see, this team has a fair few counters for each Pokémon on this list, and doesn't suffer intolerably from any of them i particular. Er, I don't really want to say DON'T STEAL LOL, as this is actually a team I use, but I can't really stop it being stolen by posting it in general. Suppose like any RMT lolo. Lead Pokémon Well, now we've built a successful team, We must consider what would be a good lead for this team, and what are good leads in general. This is a pretty important part of any team, in my opinion. For the team compiled above, there are a dew Pokémon that could be possible leaders, such as Metagross (especially with Bullet Punch), Heatran, Hippowdon (If you so want Sandstorm this early in the match, but I tend to prefer it later on), and even Starmie. You're not strapped for choices, what so ever, and this is always good. Now back to shoddy to see what the most common leads were; 1. Gyarados (13425 leads) 2. Gengar (10069 leads) 3. Salamence (8618 leads) 4. Bronzong (8259 leads) 5. Hippowdon (7573 leads) 6. Weavile (6739 leads) 7. Tyranitar (6441 leads) 8. Infernape (6410 leads) 9. Yanmega (6176 leads) 10. Roserade (5985 leads) 11. Swampert (5787 leads) 12. Ninjask (5742 leads) 13. Breloom (5711 leads) 14. Crobat (5277 leads) 15. Jolteon (5112 leads) 16. Abomasnow (4891 leads) 17. Metagross (4311 leads) 18. Azelf (4260 leads) 19. Forretress (4104 leads) 20. Ambipom (3359 leads) 21. Staraptor (3254 leads) 22. Machamp (2946 leads) 23. Aerodactyl (2852 leads) 24. Zapdos (2769 leads) 25. Porygonz (2459 leads) 26. Togekiss (2352 leads) 27. Kingdra (2338 leads) 28. Alakazam (2219 leads) 29. Garchomp (2205 leads) 30. Heracross (2129 leads) Again I took the top 30, and as we can see - surprise, surprise; Gyarados is the most popular. There are some leads in there, that personally, I find pretty stupid. Especially Gengar being the 2nd most common lead. Weavile leads are 6th most popular, and Tyranitar 7th, and people are still stupid enough to lead with Gengar Also, things like Azelf are poor leads, Infernape as well, Togekiss is pretty crappy, and so is Heracross. From that list, you can see how well the Pokémon on the the team compiled earlier that I listed as good leaders are. As Starmie is only flummoxed by not being able to OHKO Gengar, and runs into trouble against Tyranitar and Weavile. Heatran on the other hand outspeeds everything on there that isn't a Scarf lead also, and can OHKO a great deal of the whole top 30 - this is sometimes shat on by Focus Sash unfortunately. It also forces a lot of Pokémon out, and things like Gyarados don't expect it to stay in at all, and will just try to set up a Dragon Dance while being 2HKO'd by Hidden Power Electric after being outrun even after one Dragon Dance. Metagross is a very good lead as well. It is able to destroy almost the whole list as well, though suffers slightly when it comes to outspeeding some things. Though it will live though a fair deal. Hypnosis beat all our suggested leaders so far, though that is why Cresselia is there. Hippowdon is a good lead as well, especially if you want to get Stealth Rocks down quickly, and get that Sandstorm going from turn 1. Maybe not completely ideal for this team to have a Sandstorm going on the 1st turn. In terms of the best leads, I'd have to say (In no order); - Tyranitar (good starter, get out the SS, and not much can OHKO you) - Hippowdon (already mentioned) - Bronzong (First turn Hypnosis, and then Stealth Rock, good bulky leader) - Weavile (Pursuit. Pair that with it's Speed, and Attack Stats, and you have a deadly leader) - Gyarados (Intimidate turn #1 can make some Pokémon a little more harmless, as well as forcing out some things like Hippowdon straight away - dangerous even from turn 1) - Salamence (Intimidate again, and can OHKO almost all other leads with Specs. Dragon Dance/Support versions are better saved for though) - Swampert (Start off with Stealth Rock, and another good Bulky lead) - Yanmega (Fast Hypnosis, and a generally dangerous Pokémon, with Speed Boost + Protect + Hypnosis or Choice Specs/Scarf + Tinted Lens) - Aerodactyl (One of the most popular leads of the last generation. Walled a little too much by Hippowdon now though, which is unfortunate, but he can still be quite a handfull) - Staraptor (Love this as a lead. U-Turn, Intimidate, huge attack. Can't really go wrong) - Crobat (Fast, Hypnosis, U-Turn. No more need be said) - Stuff with High Speed Priority Attacks also make pretty good leads, Like Breloom, Azumarill, Metagross, Lucario, etc, etc, etc. - Anything with Choice Scarf makes a good lead, as do many things with High Speed + U-Turn, Hypnosis, and that aren't weak to Pursuit - couldn't be bothered to list more, and I think I made the general idea clear. Thanks for the read. Do say if there is anything you think I should elaborate on, or add to the guide. |
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| mag | Jan 23 2008, 08:16 AM Post #2 |
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zzz
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pasting here because it might get a] some feedback, and b] might be seen [?] |
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| john | Jan 23 2008, 08:16 AM Post #3 |
I've Got Balls Of Steel
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Well done. Pinned. |
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| my iq is 154 and if u say it isnt well your stupid | Jan 24 2008, 02:21 AM Post #4 |
King of Sceptiles
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My guide is now obsolete guys =[ That was a compliment btw |
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