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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 8 2007, 07:42 AM (1,502 Views) | |
| Lance | Oct 9 2007, 12:25 PM Post #41 |
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Next time you get bored of your lives, gimme a call and I'll come round and KILL YOU.
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Morton, is your main complaint that WWE title changes are like buses? Nathan, on one hand, you wine about the belt having no credibility. The other hand you use to masturbate to the Spinner design. Triple H > Shit > Orton > Ross.
Then there was still no point in doing it. It's a waste of a match. We've been over this already, Ross, try to keep up. Pam Anderson's Vag, you should be more understanding when it comes to Tripper. He's clearly got an addiction to world titles, and should be applauded for going so long without a fix rather than attacked for a brief slip. Tay Zonday, I... wait, what? |
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| March Haire | Oct 9 2007, 05:11 PM Post #42 |
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Jamie Lee Curtis
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I...uhh...don't know. I guess this is what failure tastes like. |
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| Nathan Versus | Oct 9 2007, 05:54 PM Post #43 |
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Versus > You
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Is the credibility of the belt really affected by the design? This version has been around for two and a half years, spanning nine reigns from five different champions. If No Mercy was anything to go by, WWE have no intention of scrapping the Spinner and reverting back to the old ‘Undisputed’ version, despite the fact that Cena could be out for twelve months (and could then spend another three or four months building towards another shot). So, the Spinner isn’t necessarily exclusive to Cena in the same way the Smoking Skull was to Steve Austin, WWE seem content to stick with it. Of course, people will associate it with Cena, but will that be the case in a few months? And couldn’t a similar thing be said for the ‘Undisputed’ belt? One day it was the Undisputed Championship, the next day it wasn’t. The design didn’t change, people could still make associations. Does it matter? In terms of credibility, from a kayfabe point-of-view, the belt has never looked better than it did when Cena was champion, regardless of the design of the actual belt. He won it, clean, then took on all-comers, winning decisively, overcoming the odds, you know the rest… I appreciate what they were trying to accomplish by handing the belt to Orton and then having him defeat a knackered Triple H and, yes, he does have plenty of heel heat, but didn’t he already? He put Van Dam, Michaels, Rhodes, Cena Sr. and Cena on the shelf and is one of the most sadistic heels in WWE history. The heat generated by his antics at No Mercy was simply a thin layer of icing on a very big cake. Does that little bit of extra heel heat balance with him losing the belt within a matter of minutes? The way Triple H won was obviously designed to ‘protect’ Orton from looking lame, but does it? Time will tell, but I’m not convinced. Personally, I think it made him look like a joke. Had Orton won the belt from a random superstar in a random match, he would’ve remained the baddest heel in the company, a position that was cemented after he injured Cena, without the risk of him looking like a joke. For Orton, No Mercy accomplished nothing or, at best, very little on the positive side and the jury is still out on the negative… As for Triple H, I understand they were lining him up to fill the vacancy left by Cena and No Mercy was designed to commence an extended programme between him and Orton, but that makes a lot less sense after Michaels returned on RAW and attacked Orton. Has Triple H already given up the spot? Surely he wasn’t just involved for the sly title win and the ego rub? Changing the subject, what’s so special about an Undertaker/Triple H match that demands advertising? I’m not saying it should’ve happened at No Mercy, just wondering. It’s a big match, yep, but it’s hardly Austin/Hogan. I wouldn’t even consider it the biggest match in WWE today. Both men are faces, so there’s no need for a heated rivalry, just two veterans competing in a clean contest for the top prize in the industry, followed by a post-match show of mutual respect. Surely that’s not going to harm the credibility of the belt? I know they’re on different brands, but Callaway has indicated that he wants a final run on RAW before retiring, which can’t be that far away. It’s not like WWE couldn’t have a rematch at a later date, whilst their No Mercy encounter was still in mind. |
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| Lance | Oct 9 2007, 06:25 PM Post #44 |
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Next time you get bored of your lives, gimme a call and I'll come round and KILL YOU.
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Yes, because it looks like a three-year-old's toy. Personally, I've never given much thought to the WWE title's "legacy" or "prestige," nor should anyone have since Ted Dibiase bought it or Hogan got his fifth title at WrestleMania whateveritwas by squashing Yokozuna in a few minutes. But I know an eyesore when it makes my eyes sore and that Spinner belt definitely did. So, Orton puts people in hospital repeatedly, wins the title, gets beaten by a lucky roll up, wins the title again by brutalising Triple H, brutalises him further the next night, is made to look like Vince's chosen champion, and has a heel Appreciation Night in his "honour." Perhaps that does make him look like a joke if you've got a particularly strange sense of humour. To me, it looks exactly like a cross between how they booked The Rock in 1998/9 and how they booked The Rock in 2003, but with extra lashings of "Legend Killings" and sadism on the top. Do you think people are going to remember that he lost to a Triple H roll up over everything else? If anything, this angle made Triple H out to be not as tough as Cena. Cena defended the belt successfully no matter what for months, whereas H couldn't hold onto it for half a day. He's being booked as the next best thing after Cena, which he actually is from a babyface perspective. I don't know what they're going to try with Michaels and I never put my ass on the line when it comes to predictions, but when Triple H is back on television he'll be more over than ever thanks to this angle. It'll be clear he's out for revenge and challenging for honours again after a long spell away from it. For the fickle WWE fans it's a fresh situation, to the nostalgic ones something they've wanted for a while. This sort of shaking-up couldn't have happened if they'd just put the strap on Orton and jobbed Faggy out to him. As for Undertaker/Triple H, it's a big deal for two reasons. Firstly, in kayfabe, it's only really happened once. I know they had a few television matches before that but the build up to WMX7 billed 'Taker as the one man Trips had never beaten, and the match itself is remembered, rightly or wrongly, as being one of the wildest brawls of the modern era. When they faced each other again, roles reversed, at King of The Ring '02, it was once again made out to be serious fucking business, but the match wasn't as memorable because it was sandwiched between the Hulkamania nostalgia tour and the rise of Brock Lesnar. Secondly, the last time we saw Undertaker, he was probably the most over man in the company. Moreso even than Cena or Michaels. He was getting earth-shaking reactions from the crowd. Since Tripper came back, he's been more over than anyone besides Cena. They've both been booked very strongly for a while now as faces. Whichever way you look at it, it's not the match WWE wants to give away without advertising. And, yeah, it'd be the biggest face vs face match they could possibly give us and would have to be ruined by some sort of chicanery so as not to stop either's momentum. WWE have never operated this way so I'm a little surprised everyone wants them to start now, especially because I don't see either H or Taker getting over as heels any time in the near future. |
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| Nathan Versus | Oct 9 2007, 07:40 PM Post #45 |
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Versus > You
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Putting people in hospital makes him look fantastic. Losing the belt within 25 minutes does not have quite the same effect. At best, I’d say it made him look like a fool and was a fairly pointless exercise. At worst, I think it made him look completely out of his depth. Backlash, Vengeance, SummerSlam and Unforgiven had already established that he couldn’t win the belt. No Mercy established that, when handed the belt, he couldn’t hold onto it for more than a few moments. I don’t see how that helps his credibility in the slightest. The closing match made Triple H look like God and allowed Orton to ‘redeem’ himself. Like I said, I don’t think No Mercy did a great deal for Orton. Going into the show, he was the baddest man in the land. By the end of the night, he was the baddest man in the land, and also a bit of a fool. As for Triple H, like you said, he’s been the most over superstar on the roster since his return, so I can’t see this whole angle doing that much more for him. It’ll be interesting to see what happens next. The proposed Hell In A Cell at Cyber Sunday should leave little doubt that Orton is The Man. |
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| GaryG | Oct 9 2007, 08:22 PM Post #46 |
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Midcarder
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Orton wont be in a hell in a cell match at No Mercy. Its Orton vs: HBK/Hardy/Kennedy |
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| Teq | Oct 9 2007, 08:38 PM Post #47 |
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Upper Midcarder
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I don't see how it would have been a waste. It wouldn't take anything away from the fact if they did it again down the line. |
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| King of Kings | Oct 9 2007, 08:40 PM Post #48 |
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Politicker
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You notice here Triple H already has his name on the belt, despite having it less than 2 1/2 hours.![]() Doesn't waste any time does he? |
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| Lance | Oct 9 2007, 11:59 PM Post #49 |
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Next time you get bored of your lives, gimme a call and I'll come round and KILL YOU.
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Even if No Mercy did make him look weak, I suppose that means every sneaky heel ever who hasn't obliterated their opponents as well has looked really shit in comparison to Orton. We all remember how much Edge's heel run earlier this year sucked, not to mention The Rock's stints as a heel, and early Angle, and Flair outside the Four Horsemen, etc. etc. I never heard the commentating team whinging on about how they'd put people on the shelf whilst they were being made to look like twats by the faces. Orton, despite being generally shit in the ring and on the mic, has been given the best of both worlds, and all you can do is complain that Triple H, the storyline prankster, who is now lying in (kayfabe) traction, has made him look like a fool. It's like I've gone back in time to those dark days when every Randy Orton loss was greeted with near anarchy by his harem of drooling, closet-homosexual fans. It's also rather rich that you in particular, Nathan, harp on about Triple H being made to look like God when, if it had been Cena in H's No Mercy place, you'd defend the entire night with your dying breath. But then of course, Cena sells lots of toys and hats, whereas Triple H is the boss's son-in-law (fucking yawn). As JJJ said, this is consistent with WWE's recent booking: strong faces and vicious heels. The two title changes on top were pretty refreshing from my perspective, although I admit I'd much rather have seen Orton tapping to the STFU or being totally buried. |
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| Nathan Versus | Oct 10 2007, 11:46 AM Post #50 |
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Versus > You
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In all honesty, I can’t say I was overwhelmed by the way any of those names were booked. If their runs were exceptional, it was largely because each man was exceptional or, at least, capable of making something out of nothing. In the case of The Rock, WWE booking in 1998/99 was erratic; Survivor Series 1998 was a clusterfuck (it pretty much summed up the era, booking-wise) and I don’t think The Rock necessarily benefited from three short WWE Championship reigns in a two month period, but it’s irrelevant because The Rock was something special... Similarly, if Edge’s run this year was any good, it was probably because of Edge, not the way he was booked. So whilst they’ve all been booked in roughly the same way, Orton is obviously not The Rock, Edge or Angle.
Not necessarily. I would’ve complained about illogical booking and that having Cena lose the belt after just two hours was bad for business… or something along those lines. |
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| March Haire | Oct 10 2007, 12:58 PM Post #51 |
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Jamie Lee Curtis
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What's this talk about Triple H in traction? He'll be freakin' back next week, odds are without the prankster gimmick and ready for a brutal match with UMAGA~! at Cyber Sunday. |
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| Lance | Oct 10 2007, 04:07 PM Post #52 |
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Next time you get bored of your lives, gimme a call and I'll come round and KILL YOU.
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So, basically, unless every heel in history is booked as near invincible, they'll only get over if they're Rock, Edge, Angle or Flair, and any deviations in this booking will hinder... nay, transform them instantly into a joke, rather than help them, even if it gets them the title?
How awful. |
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| March Haire | Oct 10 2007, 04:50 PM Post #53 |
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Jamie Lee Curtis
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Indeed. |
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| Nathan Versus | Oct 10 2007, 05:20 PM Post #54 |
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Versus > You
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Not exactly. They don’t have to look invincible. But if you book somebody in such a way that could seriously harm their credibility, like losing the belt in a matter of minutes, but want them to remain credible, it would be advisable to use stronger characters. |
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